Auto-Mixing...you knew it was coming...

I've heard Miro's music, I've commented on Miro's music. I recall that the last mix I heard was sweet and the playing very, very good. I did specifically comment on vocal phrasing but that was heavily flavoured by my personal bias.
I've also disagreed with Miro in the past, as I have done with almost everyone, over something or other based on my experiences, preferences or belligerence but haven't doubted his enthusiasm or general HR knowledge.
 
Me too ( have heard Miro's music)
The man does have a leg to stand on, if thats how you judge if someone's opinion is valid or not.
 
This may be like jumping into the dumpster to light it on fire, but after listening and watching much on Neutron, I really like the plugs and the possibility of getting presets that are actually designed to the music that's being played. What I DO with those presets is still up to me. I'm not willing to let something auto mix for me, but I'd be willing to pay $200 for a tool that points me in right directions and lets me learn. Maybe it sounds like "cheating" to some, but I would use this as a tool to shorten the learning curve of a skill I want to learn how to do. I know there will be people out there who would abuse this and just let the "Assistant" do their work for them. With any new system or technology, there will be people who abuse it. Doesn't mean the tech is bad, just that we still have "human nature".
Pointing out exactly where the frequencies build up so you can learn, giving you signal chain ideas that you hadn't thought of, recommending EQ, etc. seems like a good learning tool. If you actually look at the tools included...the quality of the EQ, compressors, etc. that are included, it really is worth the price point.
Having said that: 1) Until (and if) Isotope releases it as an RE, I wouldn't be able to use it anyway. 2) Right now, I couldn't afford it. 3) People who've done this for 10+ years probably don't need it, want it, or even care for it. They shouldn't buy it. People like me that are in the mire of dynamic vs bus vs parallel compression for a specific track/bus/master and all the other myriad decisions that one must make for each mix and don't have the time, inclination, or cash to go to a studio and get advice for each mix could love a tool that would point us in good (or at least different) directions to experiment with. Newbs that have no clue and just want the easy path...let 'em. What have I got to lose by having their music better or worse engineered than mine? Is it really better or worse? and finally: Who cares?
I want MY music to sound the best that I can make it. If this tool helps, that's great. If it doesn't, I'd be out some $$$. Wouldn't be the first I've wasted. So, if/when it's released for Reason REs AND I can afford it, I'm going to give it some serious thought.
 
miroslav said:
OK...since you want to go deeper.

When you asked me multiple times to give you my opinion of your mixes...even though I was telling you I don't much care to do that stuff, but you kept sending me links until I must have finally said something you didn't like, and then you stopped...
....you didn't ask me then to provide you with my credentials, you just wanted my opinion.

You don't want to hear my shit any more than I didn't want to hear yours.
This is just you fishing here.

Like I said...one of these days, you'll see something of mine in the Marketing forum...feel free to give whatever opinion you want at that time, but it's not going to happen here in this thread, now. :)
Click to expand...

Miro, the way I came at you was snarky so I apologize for that. I did ask you privately to comment on some of my mixes. I appreciate all comments on my mixes and would have told you so at the time. If I stopped asking you, it was probably because you indicated or I sensed you weren't interested, which is fine too.

You're wrong if you think I'm fishing. I'm very interested in hearing what the regular posters are doing, musically. It helps me put their comments in a context. You're into big analog mixing boards and come across as something of a purist. Damn right I want to hear what that sounds like. I actually did hear one of your songs, that I recall.

More generally, I also would like to know, who is actually doing this shit? Who are the home recorders on the HR forum? The larger part of the creative energy on this site is coming from a relatively small number of people who are working on material every day. Then there is an awesome amount of sniping from the wings, gear talk, discussion of football, socializing. You mentioned the Clinic began as a sideshow. So it remains and always will. Is that surprising? It's a minority who want to listen and critique mixes. Most of those are people who are also working on mixes of their own. It's the same on all music sites.

I did let my annoyance get the better of me. It's a general annoyance over what always tends to happen when somebody posts about some new plugin, program, digital v analog, etc. There follows an avalanche of replies along the lines of "kids these days..." We get the usual assertions of superiority from people who, from all the evidence I've seen, haven't earned and aren't entitled to it. Or they may be master recorders and mixes, but we will have to take their word for that.

Anyway, I've said enough on this thread.
 
Robus said:
I'm very interested in hearing what the regular posters are doing, musically.
Click to expand...

No problem...as I said, I will be posting new stuff at some point now that I've completed my studio reconfiguration and can get back to work.
Also...I'm not really an analog purist. I track to tape and like to mix back out to analog...but I use digital quite a lot too.
Much of my "pre-mixing" happens in the DAW.

I've been at this shit a long time and I've put in the effort, which I feel is key to eventually getting good results...so I don't much care for the "shortcut" mentality I see with a lot of newbs or with manufacturers who promote it mainly to make a buck, because they know there is a big instant gratification crowd out there. That really does removes the craft and art from the recording process and just focuses on "end result".

Maybe some folks just want the "end result" without care or knowledge about how they got it...but here, we're a recording forum, and IMO, there's still a lot to be said about the preservation and promotion of the art and craft of recording...which is why many of use here have strong opinions about it.
 
jkuehlin said:
This particular crutch is going to start to fail the user. The AI isn't smart enough to mix an entire song, and its going to act very inconsistent across a range of diverse mixes.

I don't blame people for not wanting to learn this stuff. Some people are musicians, not engineers.
Click to expand...

I agree. In theory it's a great idea for people who want to focus on writing music and songs instead of engineering. Engineering and mixing takes up precious hours. And I agree the AI likely won't be smart enough to create a good mix for all genres. But say it gets the mix 90% there and mostly balanced, and then I/we/you can go in and tweak the rest. That would save a ton of time for actually writing music and practicing the instruments. I spent hundreds of hours learning how to engineer at just an acceptable level, and honestly I would rather have spent that time writing songs and practicing. Engineering brings me very little joy.

I can see why people who like engineering and don't view it as a time-suck hate this AI thing, though, and then I bet some people view it as a threat to their business, so there's that. But at the end of the day if someone hates it they just don't have to use it and can do their mixes manually (heck, I will even do that most likely since I like certain aesthetics the AI wouldn't understand!). Conversely, if this AI mixes a song to someone's satisfaction and they can then get on with making music they should probably use it.
 
Someone brought up how this plug in could help someone 'learn' what's going on by looking at what the presets are doing. That could be true.

I have iZotope "nectar" I absolutely hate the presets. They don't get you into the ballpark at all, more like into the parking lot. But once you tweek them to taste. it's a pretty good plug-in. it does so much, kind of like the multi-effects units for guitars.

The thing about it that is cool and a learning tool is the graphic displays. I'll activate a preset and say "that sucks" and I'll be able to instantly "see"
why it sucks and make corrections.

All in all, any technology can be good OR bad depending on how it's used.

But still, I don't think I'll be buying that plug in anytime soon.....or maybe never.

:D
 
Nola said:
Engineering and mixing takes up precious hours.
Click to expand...

No kidding, I literally have spent enough hours on my current project to label me somewhat insane (guessing around 150-200hrs). I keep learning new stuff (lots of it here), then I as I apply it have to re-balance everything, and then cycle it around again. I am really pleased with what I've learned, and how much more quickly I will get rolling if I am to take on another project.

But this project is all about learning, and I agree with some of the sentiments here, I absolutely want to know in every detail what is happening with everything I do (or am recommended to do). I try all sorts of things to figure out how things change, what impacts are, etc. etc. I have avoided some of the fancier plug-ins (like "vocal rider", etc.) because it's just a bit too much "magic" for me (lots of plug-ins that are effectively some combination of base plugins). I actually want to construct the result myself using the various base capabilities, because I want to learn it.

But I am not gonna criticize the auto-magic plug-in user, if they get out of it what they want, good for them. But we probably wouldn't have a whole lot to talk about.
 
miroslav said:
Sure it does...but is there some kind of deadline you are trying to make with each song? :)
Click to expand...

No, but I like to dedicate 2hrs to practice per day and then some to new songwriting, too. So engineering gets in the way of that schedule. I'd rather not have to do it because it interferes with those things, and I actually enjoy those things, whereas I don't enjoy engineering and just do it to realize songs.
 
Team up with someone who likes mixing and you can do what you like. :)

You DON'T have to do it all.

God forbid the day comes when an actual band comes about through real live interactions with humans. That might even lead to having an engineer. Doing live drums, micing amps going to a nice studio. Oh my!


Oh, I forgot......thats how some of the best rock and roll of all time was done.

:D

Seriously though, this is one of the downsides of technological advances. We become more and more isolated.
This then devolves into an actual inability to work and interact with people.
 
Nola said:
No, but I like to dedicate 2hrs to practice per day and then some to new songwriting, too. So engineering gets in the way of that schedule. I'd rather not have to do it because it interferes with those things, and I actually enjoy those things, whereas I don't enjoy engineering and just do it to realize songs.
Click to expand...

That is why you make friends with someone who quit practicing and now only mixes/masters recordings..

Of course he will need to be payed for his time if you don't make him breakfast. LOL!

:)

And that means gourmet bacon BTW...
 
Nola said:
No, but I like to dedicate 2hrs to practice per day and then some to new songwriting, too. So engineering gets in the way of that schedule. I'd rather not have to do it because it interferes with those things, and I actually enjoy those things, whereas I don't enjoy engineering and just do it to realize songs.
Click to expand...


Oh...OK.

Me...I can't do music to any kind of schedule.
I've tried that...dedicating set time, but I usually end up getting very little accomplished if I'm not feeling the right mood when that time comes.
That's why when I do get into a songwriting/recording mood...I'll just ride it for days at a time, almost non-stop....and that might then last for weeks, and even a couple of months...
...and then I'm done for awhile.
At that point, I'll just work on already recorded stuff...do some edits and comps and shit like that in the DAW...etc....until I come around again to the songwriting/recording mood.

I guess that's also why I have a variety of music at various stages of completion. I work on a song until I grow tired...and then I move to one of the other.

It keeps me interested being able to just bounce around to things when I'm in the mood rather than to a set schedule.
The last time I had set practice time and all that was years and years ago when I was still taking lessons....and man, I hated that shit. :D

Anyway...AFA the engineering...if it's not something you like doing, then yeah, you're going to want to get it over quick and go back to what you like.
I like the engineering...though sometimes it's also tedious, especially when it gets into the electronics, and I can't get back to the music until I fix some issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top