Analog or Digital?

KineticSound said:
I don't know what has persuaded to make me join this debacle. This debate has been going on since the dawn of digital, and nothing we say on this board is going to solve a magic riddle or change anyone's own personal opinion.

Dolph, if analog sounds better to your ears, that's great. You get your opinion and I'm not going to tell you it's wrong.

However, this is a home recording BBS. Fact1: Most of us have sound quality issues caused by a variety of other factors (inferior signal chain, etc.) without the need to worry about format.

Fact2: Digital has gotten to the state where the average consumer either can't tell the difference between superdisc, CD, and .mp3 or they simply don't care anymore. You correctly state that CD's are on the downslope - but it's not because of the sound quality of the CD. It because the vast majority of consumers now purchase their music through digital files. If everyone had an honest-to-goodness HiFi system at home and cared enough about sound quality, this debate would have reason to continue... but they don't. People download crappy .mp3's to their iPods, computers, and cell phones. That's how they listen to music.

I'm not debating that your analog setup doesn't sound better than my digital one. But in the end, the consumer is buying in a dithered-down and compressed digital format, so what's the point?
Click to expand...

I agree with you in that point of view.

But to those of us who cares, there's still opinions to share and guidance to give and get.

Stay happy and, if you're up to it, go for quality.
It will make your life richer.

"dolph"
 
MOFO Pro said:
Somehow I think he's got one of those big wooden volume knobs on his "hi-fi"
Click to expand...

I have a remote controlled and digitally controlled purely analog signal path >1000 steps matrix attenuator as volume knob.

On that you can't say "put it on 12 o'clock", 'cause it goes all the way round and round.
And the speed of changing volume is progressive.

Material of the knob.............hmmmmmmmmm
I guess it's matt aluminium or the like.

Now you can start wondering what amp that might be.

Nice to get that cleared out.

"dolph"
 
niklasthedolphi said:
Digital sound will always be like minced meat you try to put together to a proper steak again.

Even Cassette recordings of the best ones will have a more natural sound than digital music recordings.

"dolph"
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Dolph, You are living in the past. I think you have not used the latest digital equipment or are using really cheap stuff. Skip on over to "Analog Only" board. They will LOVE you there.
 
KineticSound said:
Fact2: Digital has gotten to the state where the average consumer either can't tell the difference between superdisc, CD, and .mp3 or they simply don't care anymore. You correctly state that CD's are on the downslope - but it's not because of the sound quality of the CD. It because the vast majority of consumers now purchase their music through digital files. If everyone had an honest-to-goodness HiFi system at home and cared enough about sound quality, this debate would have reason to continue... but they don't. People download crappy .mp3's to their iPods, computers, and cell phones. That's how they listen to music.

I'm not debating that your analog setup doesn't sound better than my digital one. But in the end, the consumer is buying in a dithered-down and compressed digital format, so what's the point?
Click to expand...

Actually, it's gone farther than this. Five years ago, mastering engineers like Bob Katz suggested that people record on wide-track analog because it was the cheaper route to high quality sound... far cheaper than equivalent digital gear. Now they seem satisfied that competent people can make excellent recordings either way, and they mainly rail against the senseless pursuit of ultra-loud "light bulb" recordings, regardless of how they're done.

So, if even mastering engineers don't feel limited by digital technology, just by incompetent use of digital technology (or any other), the choice of format is no longer a relevant audio quality issue, but merely one of artistic preference.

I still love the sound recording on my 3M machines, but I can get good sound on the various digital devices, too.

Cheers,

Otto
 
niklasthedolphi said:
I have a remote controlled and digitally controlled purely analog signal path >1000 steps matrix attenuator as volume knob.

On that you can't say "put it on 12 o'clock", 'cause it goes all the way round and round.
And the speed of changing volume is progressive.

Material of the knob.............hmmmmmmmmm
I guess it's matt aluminium or the like.

Now you can start wondering what amp that might be.

Nice to get that cleared out.

"dolph"
Click to expand...
Sounds like your "knob" beats my whole rig...
 
niklasthedolphi said:
I have a remote controlled and digitally controlled purely analog signal path >1000 steps matrix attenuator as volume knob.

On that you can't say "put it on 12 o'clock", 'cause it goes all the way round and round.
And the speed of changing volume is progressive.

Material of the knob.............hmmmmmmmmm
I guess it's matt aluminium or the like.
Click to expand...

Wow. More than 1000 steps with remote, digital control! I control volume with a Shallco stepped pot. They made it for me with 20 1 dB steps plus "off". There are 6 steps per 90 degrees, which makes it easy to see how far down you are from 0 dB without even using a dial. That's about all my brain can handle! I do like the idea of a wooden knob, however... :)

Otto
 
ofajen said:
Wow. More than 1000 steps with remote, digital control! I control volume with a Shallco stepped pot. They made it for me with 20 1 dB steps plus "off". There are 6 steps per 90 degrees, which makes it easy to see how far down you are from 0 dB without even using a dial. That's about all my brain can handle! I do like the idea of a wooden knob, however... :)

Otto
Click to expand...

Well...............

I even have read outs in dB with 0,1 steps.
The volume limit is programmable for each input.
I have programmable mute function too.
Each input has programmable extended level compared to the other inputs.

This is not studio gear.

I'll manage without wood here.
Can always go out on my sailboat to do some woodwork.
:-)

"dolph"
 
niklasthedolphi said:
I have a remote controlled and digitally controlled purely analog signal path >1000 steps matrix attenuator as volume knob.
Click to expand...

With over 1000 steps, I'm guessing it doesn't just use a rotary switch and a set of precision resistors like mine. Or does it? That would be very expensive and very big, if done right. Does it have a stepper motor that moves a contact along the same kind of continuous resistor material used in more conventional potentiometers?

Cheers,

Otto
 
ofajen said:
With over 1000 steps, I'm guessing it doesn't just use a rotary switch and a set of precision resistors like mine. Or does it? That would be very expensive and very big, if done right. Does it have a stepper motor that moves a contact along the same kind of continuous resistor material used in more conventional potentiometers?

Cheers,

Otto
Click to expand...


sounds like a binary knob.
 
niklasthedolphi said:
NO I'm not.
And who the f...k is JD?

Check other hifi or pro-sound fora and you will get assurance for my steady nickname identity.
It's up to you to do the work here.

My credentials are fine and existing.
My credibility is intact.

Don't continue trying to throw suspicion on me for being some other bloke that you obviously don't like.

If you do I will get pi***d off on you and you will end up like the mentioned JD.

Can we move on now?

"dolph"
Click to expand...

Dear Sir:
I am the son of an american president. Unfortunately, he was killed in office and left $37,000,000 US dollars in a well known bank. I need your assistance to free up this money and in return, you will recieve 1/2 of it. My credibility is intact.........................
 
MCI2424 said:
Dear Sir:
I am the son of an american president. Unfortunately, he was killed in office and left $37,000,000 US dollars in a well known bank. I need your assistance to free up this money and in return, you will recieve 1/2 of it. My credibility is intact.........................
Click to expand...

I knew it.

You're that guy from Nigeria....................

Shame on you.

"dolph"
 
lpdeluxe said:
Forget analog. It's dead, and it will be increasingly difficult to find tape. The ONLY manufacturer of analog tape went belly up a couple of years ago, and it took a long time to get things going again.

The "rich, warm sound" is less an artifact of the technology and much more the result of the old trained-and-mentored engineer -- who usually WAS an engineer, not a high school dropout -- studio system. Engineers talk about how much they love analog mostly because it's what they know, not because it's inherently superior. Analog had a history of 100 years behind it, after all; when digital is that mature there'll be no comparison.

For a person who has not been through the old training process, it's at least as easy to screw up analog sound as it is digital, and fixing it is a hell of lot more work. I do a lot of digital recording and nobody has ever said "damn, that's no good! It sounds digital." Instead, they say, "how do you get that to sound so good?"

Go digital and devote yourself to making it sound good, not to some imaginary ideal. Concentrate on good mics and preamps instead of some old worn-out aging darlin' of a tape deck. Given the prices they command among the starry-eyed, if you got a multi-track deck and some mics, the budget would probably allow for a couple of Chinese $99 specials.The fact is that all that rich, warm analog gear is astronomical in price to acquire and maintain (and maintain and maintain -- every session) to give you potentially a marginal improvement in sound (along with a large increase in noise).

I started out with an 8-track reel-to-reel (this was, naturally, a few years ago), an analog 8-bus mixer, and hardware processors. When I got into digital, there was a steep learning curve, but now I'd never go back. I LIKE concentrating on the music and not on being the electronic technician on 24-hour call. I LIKE cutting and pasting with a mouse click instead of an Editall block and a razor blade.

I use the D888 for live and rehearsal recording and it's good. For critical recording you'll want decent preamps (I have an ART and a Grace) and, again, good mics. I also use a computer with Adobe Audition and a couple of Tascam digital mixers for recording.
Click to expand...

Just like a Pro Fools digital person to get it all wrong. Analog might take longer to use but sounds better then anything you can do..... LONG LIVE ANALOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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