An honest question from someone who doesn't understand rap...

I know that hip hop began from club music - but Laffy Taffy, etc. is not hip hop - it's cooning.

Yep, I said it - it's straight up cooning. The point of those records is to make brothas look stupid so that white folks can tune in to BET and say, "Hey, look at those stupid nigg-ers!" and laugh.

Hip hop as dance music, I'm okay with but snap music is NOT hip hop. I love a lot of club records, I'm not ashamed to say that - but they are quite different in spirit to the aforementioned.
 
jibran said:
I know that hip hop began from club music - but Laffy Taffy, etc. is not hip hop - it's cooning.

Yep, I said it - it's straight up cooning. The point of those records is to make brothas look stupid so that white folks can tune in to BET and say, "Hey, look at those stupid nigg-ers!" and laugh.

Hip hop as dance music, I'm okay with but snap music is NOT hip hop. I love a lot of club records, I'm not ashamed to say that - but they are quite different in spirit to the aforementioned.
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You're going too far.... the racial stuff.. is just a little too much. That's why this topic is stupid. A stupid rhethorical question... I hate seeing that word in writting... let alone in this day and time. I didn't grow up in the 50's so i'm not oppressed in anyway, but the use of it in language really does bother me.


Demi
 
Did you pay attention to anything I said?

If you think racism is dead, then you're living in a fantasy.
 
jibran said:
Did you pay attention to anything I said?

If you think racism is dead, then you're living in a fantasy.
Click to expand...

Yes but Demi does have a point, it really wasn't necessary to make your point. If you really feel it needs to be said, just say "n*****s" or something similar. Hell, I'm completely white and I've got a problem with that word!
 
jibran said:
Did you pay attention to anything I said?

If you think racism is dead, then you're living in a fantasy.
Click to expand...


Racism is perpetuated by ignorance. I did pay attention.....there are other ways to get your point across than making racial slurs and comparisons.


Demi
 
I feel you jibran.

I don't think he went too far. It's not like he was calling someone that, he was using it to prove a point. A point which he nailed on the head.

I make all types of music. I make very good commercial sounding gangster music, and I make highly lyrical underground music as well. But you'd never catch me (or anyone who respects themselves, for that matter...) willingly participating in the downfall of our culture and further perpetuating the stereotype of ignorance within the black community like some of the aforementioned groups.

If you haven't heard it, go pick up "The Minstrel Show" from Little Brother. It speaks on this very topic quite eloquently.
 
and let me point out that rascism is dead with some people at least and I wish there'd be at least a little recognition of that.
I'm white but I find the 'n' word very offensive ..... as a musician some of my best friends are black and as a piano tuner a majority of my customers were black and they were my friends with absolutely no reservations or behind their back remarks.
I find it as offensive to be characterized as a rascist just 'cause I'm white as a black man does to be characterized as a crack head just 'cause he's black.
I don't know enough to understand exactly what music ya'll are refferring to ( I'm starting to learn and this thread has been very helpful so keep it up) but as a white man I can tell you that no one let me in on what music I'm supposed to laugh at brothers for.
I'm not stupid so I suppose it must exist but a blanket statement of white people laughing at blacks seems kinda unfair, especially since there are some white people right here showing a sincere interest in educating ourselves about this music.
 
I hate to say it..but this is why most of us is here chatting it up instead of being heard..

Hip-Hop is a culture, rap is the game...period...everyone has their own style and likes in music...but it time for people to realize the Rap of the golden years isnt coming back...and if you seriously think it is..your living a dream...I dont know no artist in the music industry..good or bad...true..i dont like the "Laffy Taffy" song but i respect that they made the song, pushed the songs, proved to the Big Execs..thats running the industry into backin the song...and its a damn success..period..the Music industry is about making money..and right now us 650,000 at the most that want the Golden era to come back ..it isnt happending... you want to move to the next level you got to grind harder then the next kid over there redoing nursery rhymes and gettin more fanware...cause its catch and moving the crowd..

I have always been a big supported of anyone who is doin what they can do to get a deal.. if you want to do hip-hop and go mainstream good luck..i dont see you or anyone trying to do that sellin many records..times have changed...the music is viewed now has changed...everyone will try to say this and that to say Hip-Hip is Dead..or the South ruined it..all of it is Bull----...Its like I tell everybody when we have discussion about the new rap...What are you doin to bring back the Golden years..how many labels are beating down your door to tell you ..you will be the next best thing...have you done anything that let people know you are a artist that is goin to bring hip-hop back...i doubt it...

im just venting..cause its about time to vent...un til i hear..scratch that until i see someone grindin', promoting, advertising, and packing shows..in their region and got at least 5 labels trying to sign them..we will alway be here debating this topic about hip-hop and the new style of hip-hip...

and Little Brothers..have broken up..well 9th Wonder has left...

damn..i lost my train of thought...im down..have a nice weekend..is snowin in MD..need to go home to work on some new beats..

have a safe weekend...:D
 
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I tuned into this thread to get hip as well but it seems to have gone a little grey.
Let's face it folks racism is still alive and well and it most likely will always be in some way or another. I do have hope that as we evolve it can go away but it won't happen in our lifetime. At this point I am so desensitized by the "N" word that it seems common place. When I was a kid it was a bad word and as a nation we were trying to get away from that kind of thing but I think it was the rap culture that kept it alive and well.
As far as hip hop or rap music goes, I don't much listen to it because I feel like most of what I have been exposed to I can't relate to. I am a white suburban dude who never came from the streets, never pimped a ho, never sold crack, never did a stretch in the pen, and I haven't been shot at(yet).
Unfortunately, that is what you get with a lot of the main street rap/hip hop.
At the same time I have a tough time with death metal and most of the angry rock music out there because at 42 years old I am just not so angry anymore.
I love everyone!!! :)
 
9th was dope but he wasn't a "member" per se of Little Brother. They're as sick as ever, check out their new mixtape.

Btw, that would be a great opp. for y'all to check out some hip hop. Title is And Justus For All [spelled like that] - it was released as a free download, just search for it and it'll turn up.
 
bknot1 said:
I hate to say it..but this is why most of us is here chatting it up instead of being heard..

Hip-Hop is a culture, rap is the game...period...everyone has their own style and likes in music...but it time for people to realize the Rap of the golden years isnt coming back...and if you seriously think it is..your living a dream...I dont know no artist in the music industry..good or bad...true..i dont like the "Laffy Taffy" song but i respect that they made the song, pushed the songs, proved to the Big Execs..thats running the industry into backin the song...and its a damn success..period..the Music industry is about making money..
Click to expand...

This is what it boils down to...

To these idiots running (and ruining) the music industry, it's about money. 12 years ago, it was, but it wasn't... Execs made money, but artists were able to create what they wanted. They were able to cultivate at a record label, and spurn growth in their circle of artists.

How many creative artists, have literally "changed the game" in the last 10 years? Sans Eminem, there hasn't been one. Many people will say 50 changed it, but he followed the EXACT blueprint that Dre laid down with The Chronic in 1992. He just used different beats.

The only thing record labels do now, is find what's selling, and push it like crack rock. They polute the market with it, and disolve it to trash. Listen to Lil Jon and his music from his crew before they got signed... Was it crunk? Yes... Was it a gimmick? No. They did it because they loved it, and after the dollar signs showed up, they poluted it to the point that it's laughable now.

D4L is a by-product of what Lil Jon started. They bit the style of music he made, laid mellow rhymes over slightly slower beats, and called it a style. It's a product of corporate means, to produce dollars. It's not for the love of music, or to further the musical landscape. It's to make money, point blank.

They (and groups like them) are a modern day Minstrel Show. They're a joke to anyone and everyone with a sense of creativity in them.

You can respect the hustle... That's one thing. But to advocate it as an art because it makes money is ignorance.

The Pet Rock made someone very very rich. A Multimillionaire... That only proves how stupid the populace is. Same thing with any music created for the purpose of financial gain as opposed for the music. Stupid is as stupid does...

Do what you do because you love it, and if you happen to get rich and famous off it. Good for you. That's how I can respect Lil Jon... I can't respect these ignorant fools who perpetuate racial stereotypes pushing back the movement of our culture, for the purpose of monetary gain. They can take a heater to the grill. :mad:
 
Change of POETS said:
This is what it boils down to...

To these idiots running (and ruining) the music industry, it's about money. 12 years ago, it was, but it wasn't... Execs made money, but artists were able to create what they wanted. They were able to cultivate at a record label, and spurn growth in their circle of artists.

How many creative artists, have literally "changed the game" in the last 10 years? Sans Eminem, there hasn't been one. Many people will say 50 changed it, but he followed the EXACT blueprint that Dre laid down with The Chronic in 1992. He just used different beats.

The only thing record labels do now, is find what's selling, and push it like crack rock. They polute the market with it, and disolve it to trash. Listen to Lil Jon and his music from his crew before they got signed... Was it crunk? Yes... Was it a gimmick? No. They did it because they loved it, and after the dollar signs showed up, they poluted it to the point that it's laughable now.

D4L is a by-product of what Lil Jon started. They bit the style of music he made, laid mellow rhymes over slightly slower beats, and called it a style. It's a product of corporate means, to produce dollars. It's not for the love of music, or to further the musical landscape. It's to make money, point blank.

They (and groups like them) are a modern day Minstrel Show. They're a joke to anyone and everyone with a sense of creativity in them.

You can respect the hustle... That's one thing. But to advocate it as an art because it makes money is ignorance.

The Pet Rock made someone very very rich. A Multimillionaire... That only proves how stupid the populace is. Same thing with any music created for the purpose of financial gain as opposed for the music. Stupid is as stupid does...

Do what you do because you love it, and if you happen to get rich and famous off it. Good for you. That's how I can respect Lil Jon... I can't respect these ignorant fools who perpetuate racial stereotypes pushing back the movement of our culture, for the purpose of monetary gain. They can take a heater to the grill. :mad:
Click to expand...

Whoo... I LOVE YOU... ARE YOU MARRIED? ;o)
 
bknot1 said:
I hate to say it..but this is why most of us is here chatting it up instead of being heard..

Hip-Hop is a culture, rap is the game...period...everyone has their own style and likes in music...but it time for people to realize the Rap of the golden years isnt coming back...and if you seriously think it is..your living a dream...I dont know no artist in the music industry..good or bad...true..i dont like the "Laffy Taffy" song but i respect that they made the song, pushed the songs, proved to the Big Execs..thats running the industry into backin the song...and its a damn success..period..the Music industry is about making money..and right now us 650,000 at the most that want the Golden era to come back ..it isnt happending... you want to move to the next level you got to grind harder then the next kid over there redoing nursery rhymes and gettin more fanware...cause its catch and moving the crowd..

we will alway be here debating this topic about hip-hop and the new style of hip-hip...
Click to expand...

what bout some of the highly influencial artists in here, droppin some lines on the core idea bout what we been discussin over here on the topic and makin dat into a track/tracks?? as B said its been always discussed in here.. so each one prepares the verse and make it a track collectively..so that each one will have a say and would help clearin the doubts for at least some of upcoming viewers of this thread... ohh am i soundin too commercial??
this debate is goin on and on in this forum..N word, racism,rap culture..so why dont we just put it all in one box?? though it was done by artists in the mainstream arena before..regardin this forum and only this forum, it ll be one of a kind.. I know I sound off beat. it just came out.. no prob if none happns..

peace
 
I like all music and mix country, jazz, hip hop, rap, pop, R&B, and rock.

Hip Hop/ rap (real hip hop not this radio stuff) is story telling. About hardships and struggles you may find. Or talking about the government and hard times. It's an outlet to get your point accross. It's a lifstyle and how to communicate. It has a history of put downs where people said hip hop and rap would never last. it's a culture where people can relate.

Hip hop has grown where all genres of music can be heard. You can hear rock, country, jazz, and blues in hip hop/ rap.
 
lol, you said real hip hop not this radio stuff,


i guess where most of you live theres no real big independant thing goin on in your city, alot of these new southern rappers were out there selling thousands of records by themselves, they all have a solid fanbase because people show love to tha local rappers n support their music


for instance you guys might feel the hyphy culture is just as bad if not worse as whats on mtv right now


but we love that shit cause we could relate to it so much, n all tha smart heads in here know tha bay area set tha blueprint for independant rap and is tha mecca of independant rap in hip hop

you just simply cant relate to the music in any way because you dont live anywhere close to tha city where that lifestyle is or just dont know anything about it...


n you guys call all tha snap rap trash because to you it has no musical merit, but some people see all of rap music as trash and not music at all

n what would you say to tha person who said that...thats just cause you dont know anything about it, you cant relate to it...


n for tha other people that say tha industry is full of racists who want to make fools out of black people, you juss paranoid wit a chip on your shoulder...
 
northern cali,

You need to listen to some Little Brother and Dead Prez.

If you want to talk about selling music themselves, listen to my boys Aman [who are, btw, Northern Cali cats] - they sold 50k+ albums WITHOUT any label or anything and all the music is top-quality. The same cannot be said for snap music.
 
i usto bump dead prez back in tha day but i aint never came around to listinin to little brother, some people say they hella tight or whatever, but somthin juss comes off really corny to me with them...

lol, i know cats whove sold 50,000 indy,


its coo if you dont like snap rap, i dont like it either but if you want to be true to hip hop then i think you should at least respect it, cause that would be the hip hop thing to do

cause like i said some people might find snap music to be trash, but others might like it alot, just like some people might think what you listin to is "nerd rap" or some square-ish"backpack rap"

i guess its one of thoese whatever floats your boat type of thing, one mans junk is another mans tresure ya know...

here check out this article by tara henley i found it pretty interesting



The trouble with backpack rap

Yesterday one of my colleagues here at XXL suggested that I think backpack rap is boring because backpack rappers tend to complain a lot. In actuality, I don’t have a problem with backpack rap. The subgenre—like any other in hip-hop—contains a wide spectrum of material, from the hot, to the fairly decent, to the wackest garbage conceivable. I can’t stand flat-toned rappers spitting impossibly abstract rhymes over dark, predictable basement beats, for instance. But I’m certainly not mad at records with cutting-edge concepts, innovative soundscapes, and thought-provoking lyrics.

My problem is not with backpack rappers. My problem is with hardcore backpack rap fans.

Those dudes kill me. They have to be the most self-righteous Stans under the sun. Let me run down the profile.

You can find these hotheads in the record store copping a holier-than-thou attitude, spitting obscure hip-hop trivia with an almost religious fervor. They are the ones you see in the back of the club, glaring when the DJ drops a 50 joint.

These knuckle-shufflers harbor an obscene amount of nostalgia for a golden era that they were never a part of, and a baffling level of resentment for all that is gangsta and/or flashy and fly. They despise the music industry, without ever having had any contact with it. They romanticize poverty, worship political rappers (who, truth be told, often don’t want these guys as fans in the first place), and demonize any artist that doesn’t fit into their rigid definition of “real hip-hop.” They deliberately ignore anything that calls their limited conception of “real hip-hop” into question. (The Jay-Z/dead prez collabo “Hell Yeah,” for example.) They have little interest in dialogue. More often than not, they are very young, suburban white dudes.

Adam Mansbach nailed it in his novel Angry Black White Boy:

“How, Macon wondered as he cut a path toward the small stage at the back of the club, had the backpack rap set gotten so self-righteous so quickly? These kids were as dogmatic as the bitterest old-school has-beens, oozing with keep-it-realness and wistful reminiscences of a misimagined past in which hip-hop hadn’t been shackled to capitalism. The backpackers scorned commercial success and radio airplay—corrupting the culture, yo—but spent all their money on niche-marketed hip-hop accoutrements, from breakdance videos to old-school Pumas. They ordered water at the bar, not for fear of being carded or out of desire to stay sharp-witted for the freestyle ciphers to come, but because their giddily professed pennilessness nudged them closer to the underground rappers they admired—rappers who for the most part would have traded all the adolescent-male dick-riding for a major-label advance check and used the money to move out of the projects.”

I used to get a lot of letters from backpackers. No matter how many articles I did on Lyrics Born or Mos Def or Talib Kweli or J5, whenever I wrote on Jay-Z, the Backpack Brigade would inundate me with outraged mail. One dude fumed that Jay was the height of superficiality and that I was wasting media space on money-hoes-and-clothes rap. (Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?) Another guy called Xzibit an “ass-kissing establishment man” after I reviewed one of his releases, characterizing X and radio rap in general as “vacuous self-aggrandizement, misogyny, and status-peddling.”

What’s unsettling about the backpack boys is that their critique of mainstream hip-hop doesn’t actually fall too far from hipster’s ironic interest in crunk. Both feel free to mock elements of black culture. Both are certain of their own aesthetic and/or intellectual superiority. Both can’t manage to see the humanity of those outside their own narrow worldview.

So yeah, give me Zion I’s Deep Water Slang any day of the week. But keep those Zion I fans far, far away from me.
 
I agree completely. Backpack fans are disgusting. They hate on any of their artists the moment they make it even a little big (take Common, Kweli, for example).
 
hey - jibran - wanna do a collabo about "fans" - lol - shorty got a great article (certainly what i was envisioning for the mag. post i put up) but thats some deep tish to try n pull off in a song!!!!
 
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