Just mentioned that
Although, according to the Billboard magazines of the time, it wasn't released until early '68.
Ampex MM-1000 Story...
- Thread starter sweetbeats
- Start date
Just mentioned that
Although, according to the Billboard magazines of the time, it wasn't released until early '68.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Why don't we start a new thread to discuss the details of the first 16-track production?
lonewhitefly
Active member
Just mentioned that
Although, according to the Billboard magazines of the time, it wasn't released until early '68.
ha! sorry, missed it! but a cool album in any case.
Not sure if we want to continue this here or in another thread, but FYI there are some photos from George Schowerer of the updated control room, and while one can't see for certain if there additional electronics for 24-track operation or not, there are two remote controls mounted in the racks: one 16-track and one 24-track. So whether or not the one pictured (which is now gone...odd*) was 24-track or not, there was certainly a 24-track machine in the vicinity.
I can post photos later if folks are interested.
*EDIT: It looks like everything is there, but a few things are no longer showing up in the set because his account is no longer a pro account, and those "fell off". Search for Mirasound and they will show up.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Post a link and put the photos in the thread if you want...I just didn't want this thread to turn into a debate about chronology and the advancement of multiracking, though I don't own this thread which is why I posted my thought as a suggestion cuz y'all can do whutchawant.
Mirasound had a 24-track MM-1000 by 1968. My comment above doesn't refute that the 16-track machine pictured with a 24-track photo caption may very well be a 24-track machine. the electronics for tracks 17~24 would be in an outboard rack and mode control switching would just have to be done at the electronics modules...point being that just because the control panel shows 16 mode control switches doesn't mean it doesn't have a 24-track block on it.
Mirasound had a 24-track MM-1000 by 1968. My comment above doesn't refute that the 16-track machine pictured with a 24-track photo caption may very well be a 24-track machine. the electronics for tracks 17~24 would be in an outboard rack and mode control switching would just have to be done at the electronics modules...point being that just because the control panel shows 16 mode control switches doesn't mean it doesn't have a 24-track block on it.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
I'm going through and disassembling each relay in my spare control box...the contacts have some oxidation but overall they are in VERY good shape...it definitely has low hours on it...even the contacts that pass 117VAC are in good shape compared to the ones on my original control box relays, some of which were VERY pittted. The control box chassis has been cleaned and polished, I got the rare control box cover from my friend which has been straightened and has polish applied. I'll wipe and buff that down later. I pulled all the caps off the PCB's and prepped the lands...replacement Sprague 105C axials come from Mouser today. Coming along! I fully expect to be able to mount this control box, plug up the harness and be up and running. May be a bit naive, but hey...I can hope. It certainly is a MUCH more clean and straight-forward box compared to the rewiring mess in the one that came with the machine.
Let's see if these work.
Mirasound console and equipment racks:
Close-up of MM-1000-16 and MM-1000-24 remote controls:
Supposedly the machines could be controlled locally, remotely from the controls in the rack (as shown), *and* via controls in the console. I wonder how those worked.
George Schowerer at the console, MM-1000 in background:
There's a rack of electronics behind George's head, but it looks like those are for the AG-350-8.
Ok, back to your rehab
Mirasound console and equipment racks:
Close-up of MM-1000-16 and MM-1000-24 remote controls:
Supposedly the machines could be controlled locally, remotely from the controls in the rack (as shown), *and* via controls in the console. I wonder how those worked.
George Schowerer at the console, MM-1000 in background:
There's a rack of electronics behind George's head, but it looks like those are for the AG-350-8.
Ok, back to your rehab
Ok, to draw this out *slightly* further...it's interesting to note that 1) the machine in the last photo appears to be on, 2) the "Stop" light is on on the 24-track remote and 3) no lights are on on the 16-track remote. So that seems to be a 24-track machine, yet...where did the rest of the electronics go?!
(hopefully I'm not the only one with something of an interest in this...)
(hopefully I'm not the only one with something of an interest in this...)
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Luke,
What indicates to you that the "16-track" machine is on? And even if it was on doesn't mean its in stop mode...:???:
As far as controls at console they would have likely just chained on to the romote functions. I had a custom 104-pin Winchester splitter cable that could have been used for that kind of purpose.
What indicates to you that the "16-track" machine is on? And even if it was on doesn't mean its in stop mode...:???:
As far as controls at console they would have likely just chained on to the romote functions. I had a custom 104-pin Winchester splitter cable that could have been used for that kind of purpose.
Third photo. 24-track, not 16-track. The two remote controls are in the rack right behind George. The one on the left is the 16-track remote, and doesn't have any lights on. The one on the right is the 24-track remote and has the stop button illuminated. The machine seen at the end of the room has several lights on. That would *seem* to point to that machine being the 24-track one, no?
I can post close up photos if you are interested.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Hey, Luke, where did you find these pics? I'd love to have full size copies.
The reason I said "16-track" is that my hunch is that the machine that is on is a 16-track. The 24-track maybe was in a machine room or not otherwise in the photo. I'm making suppositions here and it is hard for me to tell but it looks like the lamps glowing on the electronics modules on the MM-1000 in that picture are the record lamps. Those would only glow in PLAY-RECORD so that machine is certainly not stopped if that be the case. The 16-track remote might be dead looking because maybe the 16-track machine is in local mode and the remote is inactive. Again, just suppositions.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Control Box Updates...
Okay so I'm happy to give an update on the refurb on the spare control relay box.
As I mentioned earlier I got the rare control box cover from my friend. He forwarned me that it wasn't in the best shape. Guess who's not complaining?
Anyway, it wasn't too bad. Unlike pretty much anything else metal on the MM-1000 the control box cover is not made of steel but rather aluminum and thinner guage material as well so its not surprising after 40+ years that such a thing on a donor machine might not be exquisite.
Some pics including closeups of the most tweakered spots:
And here are a couple after smackin' it with a rubber mallet and rubbing on some polish:
Spare control box chassis before and after...
Last but not least here's the cover on the chassis:
Also got the caps needed to recap the spare control box from Mouser and got those put in:
Cleaned up all the hardware too. Still working through the relays but I've got everything here to put the assembly back together and try it out. Hopefully within the next couple-three days.
Okay so I'm happy to give an update on the refurb on the spare control relay box.
As I mentioned earlier I got the rare control box cover from my friend. He forwarned me that it wasn't in the best shape. Guess who's not complaining?
Anyway, it wasn't too bad. Unlike pretty much anything else metal on the MM-1000 the control box cover is not made of steel but rather aluminum and thinner guage material as well so its not surprising after 40+ years that such a thing on a donor machine might not be exquisite.
Some pics including closeups of the most tweakered spots:
And here are a couple after smackin' it with a rubber mallet and rubbing on some polish:
Spare control box chassis before and after...
Last but not least here's the cover on the chassis:
Also got the caps needed to recap the spare control box from Mouser and got those put in:
Cleaned up all the hardware too. Still working through the relays but I've got everything here to put the assembly back together and try it out. Hopefully within the next couple-three days.
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cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
Cory, just saw a real cool movie last night called "Love the Beast", about the old classic muscle cars and their owners (centers on one particular actor Eric Bana and his emotional attachment to one particular model). Quite a profound film worth checking out. So much interesting stuff said, philosophical at times. It reminded me so much of our enthusiasm for old tape machines and, notably, the labor of love restoring the old beast, your MM-1000. Yeah, "Love the Beast" seems fitting here as well, don't you think?
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Heh...yeah...I do.
Never heard of that film, but I just watched the trailer and some related bits on youtube.
Yeah.
Its like that...definitely.
It, the machine, wouldn't be what it is or what it will be without me. It depends on me, and at the same time I am not what it is and I depend on it to accomplish what it does. Its an odd symbiosis because I control it...I throw the switch, I fix it/maintain it/operate it, and yet the MM-1000 is STILL somewhat intimidating to me. Not sure what it is but it has a character and mechanical and electrical power that make it dangerous...and it definitely, in its own way, has the rumble of a V8 musclecar. Cars are dangerous too, and yet we get in them all the time. I'm just not used to driving Matilda yet. My point though is that there is indeed a symbiosis and that, by definition implicates a relationship of some sort, and it is that intangible something that has assured and continues to assure that the MM-1000 is the tape machine for me. I can still recall seeing the craigslist ad, seeing the picture and almost simultaneously thinking "what is that??" and "That...is it."
I'll have to try and see that movie.
BTW, the relays have all been disassembled, cleaned up and reassembled. Bit by bit.
Never heard of that film, but I just watched the trailer and some related bits on youtube.
Yeah.
Its like that...definitely.
It, the machine, wouldn't be what it is or what it will be without me. It depends on me, and at the same time I am not what it is and I depend on it to accomplish what it does. Its an odd symbiosis because I control it...I throw the switch, I fix it/maintain it/operate it, and yet the MM-1000 is STILL somewhat intimidating to me. Not sure what it is but it has a character and mechanical and electrical power that make it dangerous...and it definitely, in its own way, has the rumble of a V8 musclecar. Cars are dangerous too, and yet we get in them all the time. I'm just not used to driving Matilda yet. My point though is that there is indeed a symbiosis and that, by definition implicates a relationship of some sort, and it is that intangible something that has assured and continues to assure that the MM-1000 is the tape machine for me. I can still recall seeing the craigslist ad, seeing the picture and almost simultaneously thinking "what is that??" and "That...is it."
I'll have to try and see that movie.
BTW, the relays have all been disassembled, cleaned up and reassembled. Bit by bit.
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sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
I'll post more info and pics later, but I got the "spare" control box refurbished, reassembled and back in the machine to test.
Good news: no more latch-up problem in PLAY mode...in fact the transport operation is crisp and positive...awesome.
Bad news: now when I put the transport into RECORD it kills the +24V supply...either the over-current or short-circuit protection is kicking in. It worked at first but now it is not...and I STILL only get 2~3 channels to actually enter record mode, so that isn't a relay box problem as I had hoped.
Here's a short YouTube vid of the problem:
YouTube
Anyway, again, I'll put some pics of the control box up later. At least it looks great.
Good news: no more latch-up problem in PLAY mode...in fact the transport operation is crisp and positive...awesome.
Bad news: now when I put the transport into RECORD it kills the +24V supply...either the over-current or short-circuit protection is kicking in. It worked at first but now it is not...and I STILL only get 2~3 channels to actually enter record mode, so that isn't a relay box problem as I had hoped.
Here's a short YouTube vid of the problem:
YouTube
Anyway, again, I'll put some pics of the control box up later. At least it looks great.
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sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Right. It's a pre-existing issue that manifested recently after one of the caps blew in one of the two power supplies for the electronics. Prior to that I had all 8 working. Not convinced it is related to the cap blowing. I've got a plan for what to check though so we'll see.
There WAS another similar issue in the past with a couple channels not engaging in record mode but THAT turned out to be a short in a couple wires in the remote connector at the back of the machine that had been badly abused. I've ruled that problem out by disconnecting J4 from the electronics modules that aren't working. J4 on my machine carries the power to the record arm lamps on the control panel or on the remote.
The new issue is the +24V supply getting killed by the execution of record mode but I already figured it out. The interface with J2 on the control box is hinky. There are three Cinch Jones connectors on the control box: J1 is the power input both 117VAC and +24VDC; J2 is the main logic I/O connector to/from the rest of the machine; J3 is the I/O connector to the remote control jack...just doubles a number of the connections on J2. If I apply upward pressure on the J2 connector record mode works fine so I'll go looking for a loose wire, corroded pin or socket or loose socket. I'll focus on the female connector on the box since this wasn't an issue before the installation of the replacement control box.
There WAS another similar issue in the past with a couple channels not engaging in record mode but THAT turned out to be a short in a couple wires in the remote connector at the back of the machine that had been badly abused. I've ruled that problem out by disconnecting J4 from the electronics modules that aren't working. J4 on my machine carries the power to the record arm lamps on the control panel or on the remote.
The new issue is the +24V supply getting killed by the execution of record mode but I already figured it out. The interface with J2 on the control box is hinky. There are three Cinch Jones connectors on the control box: J1 is the power input both 117VAC and +24VDC; J2 is the main logic I/O connector to/from the rest of the machine; J3 is the I/O connector to the remote control jack...just doubles a number of the connections on J2. If I apply upward pressure on the J2 connector record mode works fine so I'll go looking for a loose wire, corroded pin or socket or loose socket. I'll focus on the female connector on the box since this wasn't an issue before the installation of the replacement control box.
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Ah, right...I remember now.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Diggin' in to the intermittent connection issues. I was suspecting individual contact sockets in the female Cinch Jones connectors, particularly J2 on the control box, may have needed attention. Well, they look really clean, shiny, etc. There were a couple that looked like they were sort of opened up and maybe not getting firm contact with the male pin so I figured out how to extract the sockets, tweaker 'em a little and re-insert them. They look good now. Thing is, there were only three that looked suspicious and none of them are involved with the record function. So I got the cover off the plug housing and I'll start checking resistance from each pin to its destination...search and destroy.
Here are the pics of the finished control box.
And with the covers...
As a reminder, this is what it looked like before:
Here are the pics of the finished control box.
And with the covers...
As a reminder, this is what it looked like before:
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