R
RAMI
Guest
.....oy vei......
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acustic foam
- Thread starter yrs2012
- Start date
R
RAMI
Guest
Am going with RAMI on this one.
Awesome, but I can't even remember what I was talking about and I don't feel like going back to page 2 to find out.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Is it similar to the Sonex-Illbruk Willtec foam...?
What about the Sonex Fabritec panels, that use the Willtec plus a thick layer of cloth on the out-facing surface?
While they don't specifically absorb low-end as dramatically as dedicated fiberglass bass traps, they appear to do pretty good at the mids and upper frequencies, and still some absorption also in the low end.
Seems like they would be a good choice for more broader wall covering....and then you just add a few fiberglass bass traps to additionally target the low end.
I just find rooms that are littered with nothing but bass traps hanging everywhere rather awkward if you are trying to also have a lot of audio gear and instruments in the room...and you don't have a monstrous size room to begin with.
The rooms often end up looking like bass trap storage rooms rather than small studios....
GIK Acoustics
New member
Is it similar to the Sonex-Illbruk Willtec foam...?
What about the Sonex Fabritec panels, that use the Willtec plus a thick layer of cloth on the out-facing surface?
While they don't specifically absorb low-end as dramatically as dedicated fiberglass bass traps, they appear to do pretty good at the mids and upper frequencies, and still some absorption also in the low end.
Seems like they would be a good choice for more broader wall covering....and then you just add a few fiberglass bass traps to additionally target the low end.
I just find rooms that are littered with nothing but bass traps hanging everywhere rather awkward if you are trying to also have a lot of audio gear and instruments in the room...and you don't have a monstrous size room to begin with.
The rooms often end up looking like bass trap storage rooms rather than small studios....
I believe Sonex is a similar type foam. But Basotect is mostly used for building insulation, not for sound absorption. It doesn't absorb low end incredibly well.
In fact, you've got it quite backwards - you don't need tons of panels to absorb the high end and just a few to absorb the low end. The low end takes a lot of treatment - the high frequency is usually sorted with just a few treatments. Usually, you use thicker treatments that are porous so you can treat both at the same time. A room doesn't have to look completely silly to have good acoustics, but if you're attempting to get professional control room acoustics in a not-professional-control-room-sized-room, then your room probably won't end up looking quite the same. Luckily, there are effective places to treat a lot of area without sacrificing too much floor space, like corners and up higher in the room.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
No....I get that....but I'm not just talking about high frequencies. With bass traps, they are often hung away from walls and ceilings, with space behind them for best operation....and THAT can make smaller studios spaces rather awkward as it can take up a lot of valuable studio space and turns it into a bass trap storage room.
What I was seeing/asking about the Sonex Fabritec stuff, is that it's often done as wall covering....which means it's not taking up studio space as much as hanging 2x4' traps....and since it works good from the high-end to the mids and some low end, then all that would be needed are a few dedicated bass traps in key spots, and not all around the room as I often see in many bass-trap focused rooms.
The on-wall Fabritec would be for rooms that have hard surfaces all around....
Supercreep
Lizard People
Foam bad!
No use foam!!!!
No use foam!!!!
apl
Stand Up Comity
Remember that foam fire scenario someone posted? Scary stuff.
GIK Acoustics
New member
You would still need just as many bass traps, regardless if you've got foam on the walls or not, though - and these bass traps would also treat the high end, so the foam would actually be overkill if the low end were properly treated.
You could always remove them and do the tests..but it's not really necessary - if you're getting the results you need to mix without second guessing yourself because of your room - then that's all you need at the end of the day..
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I guess I'm puzzled then as I've seen Sonex Fabritec and some other Sonex-type of products all over pro studio walls, even though they had by design, serous bass trapping also built into their space.
Seems like the last few years everyone just talks about typical 2'x4' fiberglass traps.....but I don't see them in big studios, but I do see the Sonex type of wall treamtents....plus serious bass traping.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Not all of it burns....only the cheap, crappy stuff that isn't even true acoustical foam.
The melamine/Willtec acoustical foam we are talking about here, is fireproof...and they also make fire-retardant urethane acoustical foam.
I'm not trying to push foam treatments...just trying to understand why it IS used in pro studios, but has become such a no-no for home/project studios.
I find most typical home studio bass traps rather cumbersome space hogs...unless you have pretty large space that can accommodate all those panels hanging around, plus plenty of room for....well, the actual studio gear.
Wall treatments are are not as space hogs, so that's a nice option for smaller spaces if you can get the right combination.
Also...I don't buy into the notion that "you can never have enough bass traps" (meaning the hanging 2x4' type panels) in your studio as is sometimes suggested....and which is why some project studios look like bass trap storage rooms.
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apl
Stand Up Comity
Not all of it burns....only the cheap, crappy stuff that isn't even true acoustical foam.
The melamine/Willtec acoustical foam we are talking about here, is fireproof...and they also make fire-retardant urethane acoustical foam.
I'm not trying to push foam treatments...just trying to understand why it IS used in pro studios, but has become such a no-no for home/project studios.
I find most typical home studio bass traps rather cumbersome space hogs...unless you have pretty large space that can accommodate all those panels hanging around, plus plenty of room for....well, the actual studio gear.
Wall treatments are are not space as big space hogs, so that's a nice option for smaller spaces if you can get the right combination.
Also...I don;t buy into the notion that "you can never have enough bass traps" (meaning the hanging 2x4' panels) in your studio as is sometimes suggested....which is why some project studios look like bass trap storage rooms.
Auralex makes good stuff. I tried to get a job there when we lived in Indy. Expensive though.
Here's my space when we lived there...
https://homerecording.com/bbs/general-discussions/studio-building-display/pix-treatment-227980/
And everyone needs to read this before they ask questions...
Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms
GIK Acoustics
New member
Trying to compare a purpose built studio that has stuff built in to a non-purpose built, residential room is not comparing the same things at all. And I'd argue that point..I hardly see foam ever in a large scale commercial studio, and never see it specd in a studio design, unless it's to deal with a very specific problem (need to deaden a 2kHz reflection on a wall that can't support a framed panel...)
I find most typical home studio bass traps rather cumbersome space hogs...unless you have pretty large space that can accommodate all those panels hanging around, plus plenty of room for....well, the actual studio gear.
Wall treatments are are not as space hogs, so that's a nice option for smaller spaces if you can get the right combination.
Also...I don't buy into the notion that "you can never have enough bass traps" (meaning the hanging 2x4' type panels) in your studio as is sometimes suggested....and which is why some project studios look like bass trap storage rooms.
Bass treatments need to be large with respect to wavelength to work properly at all. No bass treatments are effective without taking up large amounts of real estate. Even tuned traps which work on a smaller depth still need a lot of surface area to be effective. In a professional built room, many times there is over a foot thick of treatments in the walls that is unseen. Check out Newell's designs and you'll see multiple feet of treatment behind the walls. The largest difference in a small project studio is there is no construction done, so the rooms are not purpose built. In a purpose built room, you can make the dimensions a certain size so you know exactly where and how to focus treatment without sacrificing lots of room. You can choose your room ratios to have good modal distribution so you don't have to treat certain problems that would plague other rooms. You can make the rooms different sizes so as to negate many detrimental modes building up at the same frequency..
When it comes down to it, the reason people use many bass traps in a room because a small, residential room is the absolute worst case scenario for a music room, acoustically.
Pick up a book on acoustics, on historic acoustic design...and you'll see that using broadband porous absorbers in professional studios has been the standard for a long, long time...
The phrase "you can't have too many bass traps" is not completely literal but really...the smaller a room, the more compound the problems, the more it takes to solve those problems..
Foam vs fiberglass vs GOM fire test
Check out the videos in the first post, these were just posted today! The foam tested actually had a Class A fire rating, while Auralex products have a Class B fire rating. Note that all classes are "fire retardant" and also know that any type of foam is not "fireproof" (I know you weren't using the term technically, but nothing is 'fireproof' - just wanted to clear that up for other readers)
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Well...I'm sure you've been in more studios and know what they are using. I wasn't really talking about "million dollar" studios that most likely have their absorption and bass traps custom built to fit the design and space...but I have seen in a few "middlin" studios this stuff which is Sonex (or some similar wall-treatments)...which is why I even know what Sonex is, 'cuz I was curious about it and asked them what it was (plus, it kinda' looked cool back in the day).
I was just noting the the current bass trap approach (typical 2' x 4' fiberglass panels) has been a more recent explosion, and yeah, that's due to the explosion of home studios looking for cheap, easy-install alternatives to more formal acoustic "dressing".
I have some of that...plus some of the other stuff...plus some more commercial/consumer type of tiles...so I'm using a bit of everything, and from my own measurements and basic listening tests, it's working pretty good IMO.
Would I improve the sound quality by stuffing a dozen more broad-band bass traps in the space....meh....I don't know. People who have come there all have commented that the sound is quite good, and balanced -- not dead-not live.
I do know that I would like to add maybe 4 traps aimed specifically at the low end for the corners...which wouldn't hurt, but I don't think I would go beyond that.
AFA the "fireproof" part...I got that off the Sonex website where they describe the Willtec melamine panels....but yeah, I'm sure if you hit them with enough heat they would burn at some level....but then so will the fiberglass bass traps with the cloth coverings.
I think AFA fire, the important thing is that the material just isn't something that will flame up very rapidly, and I think that's what they view as "fireproof" for the Willtec (probably needs a lot of heat to start burning) and their urethane stuff as "fire-retardant".
Anyway...just trying to quench my curiosity about all the different materials out there....
Oh...I like the wood diffusers on your site....
I was just noting the the current bass trap approach (typical 2' x 4' fiberglass panels) has been a more recent explosion, and yeah, that's due to the explosion of home studios looking for cheap, easy-install alternatives to more formal acoustic "dressing".
I have some of that...plus some of the other stuff...plus some more commercial/consumer type of tiles...so I'm using a bit of everything, and from my own measurements and basic listening tests, it's working pretty good IMO.
Would I improve the sound quality by stuffing a dozen more broad-band bass traps in the space....meh....I don't know. People who have come there all have commented that the sound is quite good, and balanced -- not dead-not live.
I do know that I would like to add maybe 4 traps aimed specifically at the low end for the corners...which wouldn't hurt, but I don't think I would go beyond that.
AFA the "fireproof" part...I got that off the Sonex website where they describe the Willtec melamine panels....but yeah, I'm sure if you hit them with enough heat they would burn at some level....but then so will the fiberglass bass traps with the cloth coverings.
I think AFA fire, the important thing is that the material just isn't something that will flame up very rapidly, and I think that's what they view as "fireproof" for the Willtec (probably needs a lot of heat to start burning) and their urethane stuff as "fire-retardant".
Anyway...just trying to quench my curiosity about all the different materials out there....
Oh...I like the wood diffusers on your site....
Supercreep
Lizard People
Unless you're recording drums, gobos might be a better call. Vocals can be recorded using a quality dynamic. There are lots of ways to get around problems other than expensive and extensive trapping.