Acoustics

guitargirl7

New member
I really loved the information that the Acoustic Guitar Recording 101 gave me, but being new to the recording world, I still have a few questions of my own. I'm recording a song that has a very Johnny Cash inspired rhythm acoustic guitar. It's such a good song and I want to give it all that I can get through the tools and gear I have.
So far, I've heard that you can record in either stereo or mono. From there, I want to experiment with angles and techniques. I just want your advice/experience/opinion to kick start some ideas, and help me understand how to get the best sound from my Taylor Acoustic!

Xtra info:
So far, I've recorded my acoustic just by plugging it into the interface. I want to try and use the sm57 though. I'm hearing alot about using two mics to record an acoustic track. Because I don't have two mics, would it be smarter to record one guitar track in the interface and another from the sm57, or record two seperate takes from the sm57 at different angles?

Gear:
Toshiba Satellite L775D laptop
Scarlett 2i2 interface
PT 10
SM57 mic

Recording:
Acoustic Guitar rhythm
Acoustic Guitar rhythm solo

Thank you!
 
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With two mikes you can record the guitar in stereo and get a big sound.

Try one aimed roughly where the neck joins the body, and another aimed towards the body of the guitar as a starter. From there you can experiment. Mikes aimed at the sound hole tend to give boomy results.
 
If you haven't yet tried to record your guitar then there's probably a period of experimentation ahead. I've not used an SM57 on acoustic so I'm not the expert there but I do record mainly acoustics.

What type/quality Taylor are we talking?
What playing style features in the song (soft strum, robust strum, fingerstyle, combination)?
Where are you planning on recording - what room, what are the walls made of, how big is it, what else is in the room?

All these things will affect your recording.

The general advice will be to start with your mic around the 12th fret, not too close, perhaps 8 - 12 inches back, hit record then go from there.

If you can post clips of what you've done, they're often useful to diagnose issues. Patience will be key.
 
With two mikes you can record the guitar in stereo and get a big sound.

Try one aimed roughly where the neck joins the body, and another aimed towards the body of the guitar as a starter. From there you can experiment. Mikes aimed at the sound hole tend to give boomy results.

For starters, thank you for the response! All of this information is really helpful.

I added some extra info at the top about what I've tried so far: (I've recorded my acoustic just by plugging it into the interface. I want to try and use the SM57 though. I'm hearing alot about using two mics to record an acoustic track. Because I don't have two mics, would it be smarter to record one guitar track in the interface and another from the SM57, or record two seperate takes from the SM57 at different angles?)
 
If you haven't yet tried to record your guitar then there's probably a period of experimentation ahead. I've not used an SM57 on acoustic so I'm not the expert there but I do record mainly acoustics.

What type/quality Taylor are we talking?
What playing style features in the song (soft strum, robust strum, fingerstyle, combination)?
Where are you planning on recording - what room, what are the walls made of, how big is it, what else is in the room?

All these things will affect your recording.

The general advice will be to start with your mic around the 12th fret, not too close, perhaps 8 - 12 inches back, hit record then go from there.

If you can post clips of what you've done, they're often useful to diagnose issues. Patience will be key.

First off, thanks for the response! If you check the top, I've added some extra information about what I've tried so far (not too much).
To answer your questions:
-I'm using an acoustic electric 114ce.
-The song is very much Johnny Cash inspired, so there isn't any big robust strums. If any, medium I would say. The picking is used with a pick, mostly individual picking for bass notes and hammer-ons.
-I'm recording in a regular bed room (professional right?) The walls aren't sound proof or anything, but it's a very small room (no echo). Mostly all wooden furniture. Carpet flooring.
 
It's all preference really, but I'd either find a nice sound with just the 57, or I'd record twice with the 57 for a pseudo stereo/double tracked feel.

I don't think I'd be going direct into the interface at all, but like I say, it's all preference.

Given that you only have one mic, your possibilities are limited, which means it's easier to try everything. :)
Go nuts.

BTW, A small room with no echo might seem appealing, but there's a good chance you'll have issues at certain frequencies.
I wouldn't let it put you off trying, but if you find it's just not working and sounding natural, try moving around the room.
Play against a wall, in the middle, into a corner, out of a corner.
You'll hear a surprising range of results, I'd imagine.
 
It's all preference really, but I'd either find a nice sound with just the 57, or I'd record twice with the 57 for a pseudo stereo/double tracked feel.

I don't think I'd be going direct into the interface at all, but like I say, it's all preference.

Given that you only have one mic, your possibilities are limited, which means it's easier to try everything. :)
Go nuts.

BTW, A small room with no echo might seem appealing, but there's a good chance you'll have issues at certain frequencies.
I wouldn't let it put you off trying, but if you find it's just not working and sounding natural, try moving around the room.
Play against a wall, in the middle, into a corner, out of a corner.
You'll hear a surprising range of results, I'd imagine.

haha, thanks for the response! Most musicians are a bit wacky anyways, so I imagine great success. :)
 
I use the set up you have (or did until the head pulled off my SM57), recorded 2 tracks at one time - the SM57 pointed at the 12th fret of the guitar, 6-9" away, and the pickup output on a 2nd track. I found the pickup added a little high-end brightness that the mic was not picking up. You can mix the two tracks as needed to get the sound you want. As others have said, you will need to experiment a little with position of the mic until you find the sweet spot.
 
It's all preference really
Even though there are people that have been engineering records since the 50s and have recorded acoustic guitars longer than we've been alive and know everything there is to know, when it really comes down to it, it's all preference. To be utterly honest with you, I can't say I know what a "good" acoustic guitar sounds like. I don't recall ever hearing an acoustic guitar and thinking "that's an awful acoustic". But I do know that I love the sound of the acoustic guitar in many guises. If I've ever heard acoustic guitar that I don't like, it's been to do with the way the player plays it. I have a friend who is a good guitarist but I can't stand much of their playing ! It's so harsh and picky. I've heard them recorded and some of it was lovely. But some of it drove me up the wall.
Ultimately, only you can know what you like. But it's important to explore all the information that those that have been there already give you.
I'm using an acoustic electric 114ce.

I'm recording in a regular bed room (professional right?) The walls aren't sound proof or anything, but it's a very small room (no echo). Mostly all wooden furniture. Carpet flooring.
I received a nasty shock when I first got an electro acoustic. I had previously thought that if you plug it in, you get the acoustic guitar sound without having to mic it. You don't ! Depending on the guitar and the pick up you could get a fair sound but my 6 string when plugged in sounds horrific. My 12 string is a little better ~ but not much.
Like you, I record in what would be considered by many as a not good space but there are means and ways.......
Experimentation and experience has enabled me to get something approaching useful with the paltry tools I have to hand.

With two mikes you can record the guitar in stereo and get a big sound.

Try one aimed roughly where the neck joins the body, and another aimed towards the body of the guitar as a starter. From there you can experiment. Mikes aimed at the sound hole tend to give boomy results.
It's interesting, in photos that I look at of acoustics being recorded during the 60s, I mainly see one mic. Obviously, the recording techniques have developed as time has gone on and logically, one would attempt capturing the guitar {and other instruments} with more mics, but I find it interesting nonetheless. I love the sounds of acoustics in tons of 60s songs.
In the Shure microphone catalogue, it's quite extensive and they give a load of blurb about miking positions and in the acoustic guitar section, I was surprized to see that their standard position was the one mic approach.
I use the set up you have (or did until the head pulled off my SM57), recorded 2 tracks at one time - the SM57 pointed at the 12th fret of the guitar, 6-9" away, and the pickup output on a 2nd track. I found the pickup added a little high-end brightness that the mic was not picking up. You can mix the two tracks as needed to get the sound you want. As others have said, you will need to experiment a little with position of the mic until you find the sweet spot.
I advocate every which way because the scope you can have with open mindedness is mind boggling. I like the way mjbphotos utilized what many have described as a disadvantage to his advantage.
I'm fully conversant with paradoxes and the paradox here is that every technique described gives you possibilities........from which you can try out and decide. Some will grab you, some won't.

I want to give it all that I can get through the tools and gear I have.
So far, I've heard that you can record in either stereo or mono. From there, I want to experiment with angles and techniques. I just want your advice/experience/opinion to kick start some ideas, and help me understand how to get the best sound from my Taylor Acoustic!

Xtra info:
So far, I've recorded my acoustic just by plugging it into the interface. I want to try and use the sm57 though. I'm hearing alot about using two mics to record an acoustic track. Because I don't have two mics, would it be smarter to record one guitar track in the interface and another from the sm57, or record two seperate takes from the sm57 at different angles?
One thing that I've been trying out recently is a 4 track trick. Basically, I mic in stereo with two condensers {either small or large diaphragm or a combination}. The positioning of those mics can vary, like the way Gekko Zzed described or one of the mics over my left shoulder or both high in the air but one pointed towards the body, the other at the neck; it really depends. In addition, I'll plug the guitar into my DAW and attach a bottletop mic to the body of the guitar and connect that too. Bottletop.JPGWhat that gives is a cute spread {to my ears anyway} of acoustic guitar. The plugged in tracks are used, like mjb says, to give an imperceptible brightness although much is dependent on how it's all EQ'd.
That doesn't help you with one mic, I know, but it does give you an idea of the scope you have at your disposal for future reference.
try moving around the room.
Play against a wall, in the middle, into a corner, out of a corner.
You'll hear a surprising range of results, I'd imagine.
Reading engineer Ken Scott's autobiography has been a real eye opener. In describing the recording of David Bowie's 'Quicksand' on the "Hunky Dory" album, he says that he wanted the acoustic guitar to increase in intensity as the song went on then to decrease as it got towards the end so he got Bowie to record six acoustic guitar tracks. In the absence of Trident studio, if you were to go for a multiple track recording of guitar, by trying what Steen advocates, you could acquire some pretty great sounding guitar.
 
In describing the recording of David Bowie's 'Quicksand' on the "Hunky Dory" album, he says that he wanted the acoustic guitar to increase in intensity as the song went on then to decrease as it got towards the end

Jesus, they really succeeded huh??

That's one of my all time favourite tracks, partly because of the intensity they created.
No matter how much you anticipate with your volume at the start, it's always takes you by surprise.

Man...I freaking love that album.
 
Even though there are people that have been engineering records since the 50s and have recorded acoustic guitars longer than we've been alive and know everything there is to know, when it really comes down to it, it's all preference. To be utterly honest with you, I can't say I know what a "good" acoustic guitar sounds like.

^^ This.

I had a guy come round to do some recording. He was a finger-picker, and particularly choosy about the sound he wanted. We recorded his guitar, which sounded fine. He then sat beside me for hours, wanting slight EQ changes and seeking the best one. He'd say, "what do you think?". I'd say "fine". It was not a cop-out on my part. It was fine, and so were the other hundred variations he listened to. Because that's what they were: variations. Any would have been ok, and all we were doing was trying to find the particular variation that matched his personal preference. Any of them could have been chosen and the song would not have suffered musically.
 
That's a cool set-up, Grim. What mic is that that you have horizontal?
 
This won't help the OP at all, but I had great success recording my acoustic into a pair of ribbons set up as a Blumlein pair.

The stereo imaging was phenomenal!
 
The issue with the small room isn't echo, but resonance. Small rectangular rooms will resonate at low frequencies, resulting a muddy sound, particularly on certain notes (based on the wavelength of those notes).

If you can, you might consider doing your more "serious" recording in a different venue, like a local church, school or VFW hall, if that's available to you.

I will second the poster's comment who said that plugging in the acoustic/electric was disappointing. I have a Taylor 214, and I looked forward to "plugging in" for recording. To me the direct sound was very thin and not terribly useful during recording.

If you can eventually get another mic, a condenser mic will provide a much nicer acoustic sound than the SM57. There are some decent ones in the $100-$150 price range.
 
That's a cool set-up, Grim. What mic is that that you have horizontal?
The one on the left is an AKG C1000S and the one on the right is a Rode NT2000. I was given them last year by this guy at a place I was doing a delivery at. As I've gotten to use them more, I really quite like them.

Jesus, they really succeeded huh??

That's one of my all time favourite tracks, partly because of the intensity they created.
No matter how much you anticipate with your volume at the start, it's always takes you by surprise.

Man...I freaking love that album.
There's been a couple of interesting programmes on Bowie on telly recently and Ken Scott's book "From Abbey road to Ziggy Stardust" gives some great info on the recording of the Bowie albums of that period.
The whole Ziggy period of Bowie is the one they tend to focus on with him and no getting away from it, it was immense. But my favourite album of his with no competition at all is "Hunky Dory". It is simply epic in every way imaginable. Every song on it is a masterpiece. The only part of the album I don't like is when it's finished !
Rick Wakeman says that when Bowie sang the songs for him {Bowie had wanted to come at the songs from a piano perspective}, he was blown away and it was the finest set of songs he has ever heard in one sitting. Wakeman's piano really made a difference on the album though {he wanted Wakeman to be one of the Spiders but he joined Yes instead}, especially if you hear the demo of "Quicksand" and compare it to the album version.
 
The one on the left is an AKG C1000S and the one on the right is a Rode NT2000. I was given them last year by this guy at a place I was doing a delivery at. As I've gotten to use them more, I really quite like them.
Cool. I use a pair of C1000's as overheads. The other one looks like a C3000b, which is my vocal mic. That's why I asked, I thought we had the same mics. :cool:
 
The whole Ziggy period of Bowie is the one they tend to focus on with him and no getting away from it, it was immense. But my favourite album of his with no competition at all is "Hunky Dory". It is simply epic in every way imaginable. Every song on it is a masterpiece. The only part of the album I don't like is when it's finished !

I saw a pretty good documentary a few days ago. It was on youtube actually.
It did cover the ziggy phase, obviously, but it focused on his career and personal life as a timeline. Right up to just before Reality.

I agree with you in that Hunky Dory is amazing. (I try to reserve that word for situations like this).
Having said that "What's your favourite Bowie album" is my most feared question.

It was Low for about 6 months when I first heard low, then it was scary monsters for about 6 months when I first heard it.
It's been Hunky Dory, station to station, low, scary monsters, heathen, even black tie white noise believe it or not,
but strangely never ziggy even though I do love it.

Edit. Jesus, I forgot about young americans, aladdin sane and diamond dogs. They've all been the favourite at some point. lol.
 
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I don't dislike Bowie, but I can't say he comes to mind when asked about my all-time favorite artists.


BUT....I wore out the vinyl "The Man Who Sold the World". I really loved that album.
 
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