Richard Monroe
Well-known member
For whatever reason, I've had my best luck with a stereo pair backed off, on nylon strings and harps. (not harmonicas, for the non-Irish among you). But- I have a good room.-Richie
Accoustic Recording - Direct line vs. mic Opinions.
- Thread starter sendittokeith
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For whatever reason, I've had my best luck with a stereo pair backed off, on nylon strings and harps. (not harmonicas, for the non-Irish among you). But- I have a good room.-Richie
frederic
New member
You can put me in the "I hate peizo's" group. Partly what makes an acoustic instrument sound good is the materials and construction methods used to create that instrument - and if you're only capturing string vibrations you're losing a lot of acoustical "data" that might be useful in the mix. Of course if you have a box of $5 mics, a peizo pickup might sound far better.
Direct recording can in fact solve problems - often, people problems, often by amatuer musicians.
I've run into situations where a guitarist might lay down the most amazing solo ever, but the amp wasn't quite set right or mic'd correctly, and we'd have to record it again after making changes. Then for whatever reason, the guitarist couldn't play that exact solo as he/she did in the last track. It happens - people get tired, distracted, frustrated, and that's just it - it's gone.
So if you record the guitar as direct as possible, then shove the amp and pedal effects into the insert chain of the console during playback you captured the one-off wicked solo, and you can tweak the amp over and over until it sounds "just right".
DI is also useful when musicians don't or won't listen. I remember one "hair guitarist" who believed his full stack only sounded "good" on "10". This is a recording studio and not a stadium, and there aren't any half-naked groupies to impress. He wouldn't turn it down, so after at least an hour of loud arguing, I solved the problem very easily - I connected a DI box to his amp, and he could crank it however he wanted, and we got a good signal in the console room while he went deaf on the other side of the glass.
You can also solve "feel" problems this way. I've run into bands that sound great when they play together, but lose an awful lot of feel when recorded individually, one at a time. For whatever reason they're not feeling their music when recorded individually so shoving them in the same room, mic'ing the drum kit and DI'ing everyone else, allows for them to see each other and get that feel back.
These are not problems you'll run into very often with professional musicians or seasoned, experienced unpaid musicians, so your mileage may vary. But DI can solve a lot of people problems.
Laying a cord across the studio floor is far less aggrevating then arguing with someone about amp settings for an hour. And, cheaper for whomever is paying the bill.
Direct recording can in fact solve problems - often, people problems, often by amatuer musicians.
I've run into situations where a guitarist might lay down the most amazing solo ever, but the amp wasn't quite set right or mic'd correctly, and we'd have to record it again after making changes. Then for whatever reason, the guitarist couldn't play that exact solo as he/she did in the last track. It happens - people get tired, distracted, frustrated, and that's just it - it's gone.
So if you record the guitar as direct as possible, then shove the amp and pedal effects into the insert chain of the console during playback you captured the one-off wicked solo, and you can tweak the amp over and over until it sounds "just right".
DI is also useful when musicians don't or won't listen. I remember one "hair guitarist" who believed his full stack only sounded "good" on "10". This is a recording studio and not a stadium, and there aren't any half-naked groupies to impress. He wouldn't turn it down, so after at least an hour of loud arguing, I solved the problem very easily - I connected a DI box to his amp, and he could crank it however he wanted, and we got a good signal in the console room while he went deaf on the other side of the glass.
You can also solve "feel" problems this way. I've run into bands that sound great when they play together, but lose an awful lot of feel when recorded individually, one at a time. For whatever reason they're not feeling their music when recorded individually so shoving them in the same room, mic'ing the drum kit and DI'ing everyone else, allows for them to see each other and get that feel back.
These are not problems you'll run into very often with professional musicians or seasoned, experienced unpaid musicians, so your mileage may vary. But DI can solve a lot of people problems.
Laying a cord across the studio floor is far less aggrevating then arguing with someone about amp settings for an hour. And, cheaper for whomever is paying the bill.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Fred, I dug that post to the max, I'm still laughing ("hair guitarist !
). Brilliant and I agree with it pretty much but the question was about the acoustic guitar. That said, I'm going to nick all of these suggestions that the posters have put forth and try them out in various scenarios coz most inventive musicians are subtle and secret thieves ! 
). Brilliant and I agree with it pretty much but the question was about the acoustic guitar. That said, I'm going to nick all of these suggestions that the posters have put forth and try them out in various scenarios coz most inventive musicians are subtle and secret thieves ! 
thebigcheese
"Hi, I'm in Delaware."
You can get good results if you have a real room instead of, like me, recording in an untreated basement that the computer you're recording with is also in... I generally just go with my MXL v67g. I have never gotten a bad result with that mic and my Takamine acoustic. For a song a while back, I did both mic and pickup, then panned them wide for a doubled effect, but now I am rerecording that song and am hardly using any acoustic, so I won't be doing that again. Haven't done it since, either. You really do have to play around with mic positioning a lot before you get the "right" tone.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
FWIW, I think the sound of a piezo acoustic is a pretty interesting sound and can definitely be useful in the mix. In some situations, a direct acoustic is just going to work, so never be afraid to try it.
However, any situation where what you want is the sound of an acoustic guitar, something like 99.9999% of the time you're going to want to mic up. I like having a piezo output on an acoustic partly for convenience, partly for live use, and mostly because it seems the only acoustics with cutaways also have piezos, and mine isn't half bad (it's a Fishman with a built in mic, so you can blend mic and piezo sounds), but even then it's not really the sound of an acoustic guitar, and a set of SDCs absolutely slays it for capturing an "acoustic" sound.
Now, if you're after either a mock sarod sort of tone, or something intentionally artificial... Sure, give 'em a try.
However, any situation where what you want is the sound of an acoustic guitar, something like 99.9999% of the time you're going to want to mic up. I like having a piezo output on an acoustic partly for convenience, partly for live use, and mostly because it seems the only acoustics with cutaways also have piezos, and mine isn't half bad (it's a Fishman with a built in mic, so you can blend mic and piezo sounds), but even then it's not really the sound of an acoustic guitar, and a set of SDCs absolutely slays it for capturing an "acoustic" sound.
Now, if you're after either a mock sarod sort of tone, or something intentionally artificial... Sure, give 'em a try.
omtayslick
New member
I like the omni a couple of feet away, along with a close mic. Blend to taste. But watch the phasing.
If you want a natural/realistic acoustic guitar sound, use a mic.
With a mic (or a stereo pair), IME you'll get a beautiful sound if you:
1. Get a beautiful sound actually coming from the guitar... and...
2. Record in a room that is good enough acoustically that you can have the mic 2 to 3 ft away from the guitar so you pick up the natural sound of the whole instrument... and...
3. Select the mic(s) and position carefully so that it simply doesn't mess up the above. It doesn't have to be THE perfect mic. Dozens of mic's will work fine, ranging from $50 to thousands.
No 1 is the most important.
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Direct (piezo) recording can be cool too, but it's a whole different thing, and not a realistic "acoustic" sound at all. But with the right buffering a piezo can sound rich and full, and not quacky or pingy.
A magnetic pickup across the soundhole can be cool if you want the sound of a hollow body elec.
With a mic (or a stereo pair), IME you'll get a beautiful sound if you:
1. Get a beautiful sound actually coming from the guitar... and...
2. Record in a room that is good enough acoustically that you can have the mic 2 to 3 ft away from the guitar so you pick up the natural sound of the whole instrument... and...
3. Select the mic(s) and position carefully so that it simply doesn't mess up the above. It doesn't have to be THE perfect mic. Dozens of mic's will work fine, ranging from $50 to thousands.
No 1 is the most important.
------------------
Direct (piezo) recording can be cool too, but it's a whole different thing, and not a realistic "acoustic" sound at all. But with the right buffering a piezo can sound rich and full, and not quacky or pingy.
A magnetic pickup across the soundhole can be cool if you want the sound of a hollow body elec.
darrin_h2000
Banned
frederic
New member
Fred, I dug that post to the max, I'm still laughing ("hair guitarist !
heh, glad you liked my humor - not everyone does.
There are a lot of ways to mic an acoustic instrument aside from the obvious - pointing a mic at the sound hole of the instrument.
Others have suggested multiple mics - great suggestion.
Some suggested a stereo mic - also a great suggestion.
Omni for more ambience, cardioid for more instrument.
I personally always try to mic the back of wood-based instrument as well for additional options - the back of the instrument often times will give you a more bassy tone that can be mixed in, assuming the instrument is "decent" or better and not constructed of "rotwood" as so many knockoffs are these days.
A really "neat" method of recording just about any acoustical instrument is using a plate mic - I know radio shack discontinued them years ago but for $50 they were awesome little mics, and with basic hand tools you could remove the 6" square metal plate and replace it with a 12-18" square piece of 1/4" acrylic - mic your show, band, or what have you from the front and not obstruct the audience's view very much. They were also very useful for micing very large drum kits (typical of the 80's hair era where there is no excess in anything), large choirs, even micing audience feedback and response while close-mic'ing the musicians or performers on stage.
The only drawback is they sucked batteries like they were free. Other than that, they're one piezo-based device I actually like - they solve a lot of problems, especially in live venues.
There really is no wrong way to mic an acoustic instrument, or a guitar specifically, but start with the sound hole and work your way out. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using several mics, feeding them to different channels, and ignoring them later if you don't like the results.
Hope that helps.