3M M-23 mix deck...

It seems that the fidelitorium isn't hurting for tape classic machines:

Analog Recorders
Studer A800 MKIII (24 tk), 3M M56 (16tk), 3M M79 (24 tk, 4tk), 3M M23 (4tk), 3M M64 (2tk), MCI JH-110C (2tk, 1/2" or 1/4"), Studer B62 (2tk), Ampex 440B (2tk)
Click to expand...
(^from their web site)

Have you read the 'Recording the Beatles' book? There's some great stuff on the M23 8 track in there. Like the fact that EMI had to install an additional bank of 8 cards so they could simultaneously monitor sync/input and repro (it was because of corporate policy, but it also enabled the classic artificial double tracking system).
 
ethyrvalve said:
It seems that the fidelitorium isn't hurting for tape classic machines:


(^from their web site)

Have you read the 'Recording the Beatles' book? There's some great stuff on the M23 8 track in there. Like the fact that EMI had to install an additional bank of 8 cards so they could simultaneously monitor sync/input and repro (it was because of corporate policy, but it also enabled the classic artificial double tracking system).
Click to expand...

Hmmm. No, I haven't read that book, yet. I probably should, though!

You are quite right that Mitch has a fair collection of tape machines. He says he invariably finds that a project tracked on tape sounds better and is more pleasant to work with that one that isn't, even if the tape machine isn't one of these old, serious mojo, wide-track machines. And that advantage carries over, even if he runs it through the A/D and works more in PT or whatever.

BTW, the M-23 I'm referring to is not the 4 track he lists. That is the portable unit he got from CBS Records that I've been trying to buy for years and now it appears hopeless. His M-23 2-track languished in storage for years and has some corrosion of exterior parts. Looks like it will be left to me to see if it is a parts machine or can be restored.

Cheers,

Otto
 
Oh that's interesting. BTW do you know if he ever mixes to more ancient 2-track on his studio's list (like the 3M Mincom M-64 or the Studer B62)?
I'm trying to restore a full-track Ampex AG-350 right now (bias circuit is givin' me sass), I'm really hoping to put it to daily use for slapback and alternate mono mixes (something that can be appropriate for the music that me and my friends make).
Also i thought some of the other analog only folks might find this thing from mitcheaster.com interesting. This is the 1981 price sheet from his old (3M centric) studio:
drivein.jpg
 
ethyrvalve said:
Oh that's interesting. BTW do you know if he ever mixes to more ancient 2-track on his studio's list (like the 3M Mincom M-64 or the Studer B62)?
I'm trying to restore a full-track Ampex AG-350 right now (bias circuit is givin' me sass), I'm really hoping to put it to daily use for slapback and alternate mono mixes (something that can be appropriate for the music that me and my friends make).
Click to expand...

I know he uses the M-64 and B62 sometimes when HE gets to make the choice (often at conservative levels with Dolby SR), but he has some clients for whom "analog mix" only means 1/2" tape at 30 ips, and for those projects he uses the MCI.

I had a mono head stack that fit on my AG-440B. Full track mono is very cool. Low noise, too. Tony at Oxide Lounge has the head stack now. It was pretty worn, so on the playback side when I set it up to meet spec (up to 16K) it had this rise in the high end with a peak of a couple of dB around 22K and still at 0 dB around 27K, all at 15 ips.

Cheers,

Otto
 
ethyrvalve said:
It seems that the fidelitorium isn't hurting for tape classic machines:


(^from their web site)
Click to expand...

I checked with Mitch and found out that Fred Hill hasn't finished the restoration on the J-37, or it would be listed there, for sure. He's going to do the oscillator plus big power amp thing for the capstan motor so he can run it at 15 ips and do varispeed. I had just planned to run it at 18 ips and 9 ips.

Anyway, he wants to do a total refurb, starting with complete rebuild of the PSU, and Fred has lots of big projects, so it'll probably be a while before it's all done.

Cheers,

Otto
 
I got my new reversing idler and installed it. The good news is that the tape now tracks well through the Isoloop over the heads. The bad news is that the tape handling is not working so well (wrapping up when moving out of rewind to stop), so I need to correct that and make sure the relays are all working right before I can do the electronic alignment.

Cheers,

Otto
 
A long time in the making!

I finally have the M-23 as a functional recorder! At 15 ips, the low end droops smoothly below 100 Hz to about -2 at 50 and stays there until about 25Hz. Part of that is the response of the line amp card, which has a tantalum cap in the path that I need to raise the value on and tighten up that droop.

On the high end, I can keep it to within about -2 at 16K without too obnoxious a peak (1 dB or so) in the 6 to-8K range. It drops off pretty fast above 16K, but a part of that is the antiquity of the rec and play cards, which need to be recapped. It already sounds decent to my ears on real stuff.

More later!

Otto
 
Good to hear you have it operating.

What happened with this...?

ofajen said:
The bad news is that the tape handling is not working so well (wrapping up when moving out of rewind to stop), so I need to correct that and make sure the relays are all working right before I can do the electronic alignment.
Click to expand...
 
jpmorris said:
Good to hear you have it operating.

What happened with this...?
Click to expand...

Not sure at this point. Maybe a relay was slow to close and left the takeup reel spinning too long. Not sure at this point. It's working pretty well at present. It's winds faster with small reels, and so a little timing issue is a bigger problem. I do plan to check out the transport logic card at some point. I replaced all the relays, so that shouldn't be a problem, but I don't know that for sure.

Cheers,

Otto
 
ofajen said:
It already sounds decent to my ears on real stuff.
Click to expand...

OK, that really doesn't describe it and the frequency specs don't really give much of a clue. I mixed a few recent tracks thrown down on the Teac. The M-23 mix playback sounds huge! :) Definitely a "big iron" sound to this beast. No problem biasing SM 911 nor any trouble recording at +6. Impressive for a 50-year-old machine. Probably at least one more thing worth doing: I think it would sound better and be more stable if I recap the audio cards.

The one annoyance is that the capstan motor is loud at 15 ips. :( I have a transport function remote assembly from an M-79. I think my best bet is to get a long cable, the right connector and build up the remote and run cables out to the next room! Either that, or I just play stuff really loud when I mix! :)

Cheers,

Otto
 
Otto...that's awesome. Haven't commented much but I'm watching every step on your work on the M-23...a unique and cool looking deck for sure. The pics with the optics up and running make it look particularly mysterious and stately.

Thanks for the document.
 
A small update, one year later.

I just got some parts for my M-23. I got the reel tables from another M-23 parts machine. They fit the same and have the same reel height, plus the same rubber tire underneath for the braking mechanism (activates automatically when power goes off to prevent tape spill if power goes down), but they have standard NAB spindles and work with standard hubs. I also got different hubs, which are the same style of Otari hubs that are on my 8-track.

So, now I have properly matched reel hubs and reel tables, and the spindle alignment is good. Before, I was using the original M-23 reel tables that needed special hubs that seem pretty much unobtainable, so I had stolen NAB spindles from my spare M-79 transport and put them on the M-23 tables, which basically worked, but they didn't align exactly right with the reel motor axis so there was a bit of wobble, and the spindles tended to work loose as I took the hubs on and off a few times.

The new reel tables aren't as pretty, since they are dull and rough, not shiny, but they work a lot better.

I also got the button for the power switch, which my machine lacked for some reason. Now I just want to find the model number for the little bulb that goes in there. Neither the stop button nor power switch have bulbs right now.

Anyway, the M-23 machine is now pretty much whole and sounds very good, with a big spacious quality, and the mix I send to it from the Otari 8-track is a good partner, with a somewhat tighter sound that works well when mixing.

Cheers,

Otto
 
Otto,

Regarding the pictures you posted earlier in this thread, do you have still the original full sized files of those? In particular, image # IMG_7967.jpg, I'd love to do a better quality wallpaper treatment picture of your deck with that one.

If so, please post it or email it to me. :)

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
Otto,

Regarding the pictures you posted earlier in this thread, do you have still the original full sized files of those? In particular, image # IMG_7967.jpg, I'd love to do a better quality wallpaper treatment picture of your deck with that one.

If so, please post it or email it to me. :)

Cheers! :)
Click to expand...

I need to do a new picture. It's very slightly out of date, since it now has a power button and Otari reel hubs that match. Also, I only use those plastic reels for storage and spool onto those gold 3M precision reels when tape is playing on the machine. Once I get bulbs for the power and stop buttons I'll do new pictures. Anyway, until then, here ya go...

IMG_7967.jpg


Cheers,

Otto
 
Another update, ten months later... I just picked up a remote for the M-23 off eBay. I'd been looking for one for several years, but they don't show up often.

Handy to have the remote when I'm mixing. If I ever build up a 4-track, it will be handy to have the remote when I'm tracking, too.

I attached a picture of it below.

Cheers,

Otto
 

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