DAW Input / Output advice

M

MushroomLamp

New member
Hi All,

I am in the process of building a standalone recording studio, capable of recording a Drumkit, 2 Guitars, 1 Bass and a vocalist at the same time. (with room for expansion)

I want to be able to record each mic on the drumkit / each input into its own track into my DAW, Don't worry, i've done some research before asking this question :p

I am currently looking at the following hardware:

Scarlett 18i8
https://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-18i8

Octopre MKII
https://us.focusrite.com/mic-pres/octopre-mkii

Connected via ADAT.
I know that this will expose some input channels in my DAW, but im not sure if it is all of them? Is there a way to tell? Do the number of outputs specified correlate to the number exposed in the DAW?

Hopefully im making sense :rolleyes:
 
You were doing fine until you said Expose. Not sure what you mean by that.

I have not used ADAT before, but from what I know of it, you should be able to accomplish what you want. Remember, most DAW programs can use only one interface at a time. So you will have to ADAT from one unit to the other then to the computer.

You should be able to see all channels from both units in your DAW. And you should be able to assign individual tracks to each input.

To me, your plan sounds good.
 
Chili said:
You were doing fine until you said Expose. Not sure what you mean by that.

I have not used ADAT before, but from what I know of it, you should be able to accomplish what you want. Remember, most DAW programs can use only one interface at a time. So you will have to ADAT from one unit to the other then to the computer.

You should be able to see all channels from both units in your DAW. And you should be able to assign individual tracks to each input.

To me, your plan sounds good.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response Chili!

By 'expose' I mean, view each input in my DAW and assign each one individually to my DAW's mixer channels. Apologies, i'm a programmer / IT Tech by trade :p

The plan is to connect the scarlett 18i8 & the Octopre MKII via ADAT (supported according to focusrite), then plug the scarlett in to a PC via USB. Then i'd like to be able to see every input (on the Scarlett and the octopre) in my DAW.

Thanks again for your help :guitar:
 
From my understanding this setup will give you 16 analog inputs to the daw and a max of 10 analog outputs.

I have the saffire pro40 which is pretty much the same unit except it connects to the computer with firewire instead of usb.
Both come with routing mix control software to assign whatever to your daw and/or headphone mixes as well as output routing.

There is only one unit that acts as an interface. The Scarlett. The octopre is just an input expander that connects and talks to the interface via adat.
 
You might want to look some more and just find one device that gives you all the I/O you need...or get two of the same devices.

Not saying the ones you picked can't work...but then you're doing the ADAT thing from the Octopre to the Scarlett...and it looks like that has some limitations, though I guess if you keep things at 48kHz, you get the full 8 channels...but I find it more cumbersome to daisy chain things like that than say, getting one 16-channel box...or two of the same 8 channel boxes that can hook up directly to your DAW, rather than daisy chaining...but it's your call, it can work, there's a few ways to make it work...I just like more straightforward, and also consider what if you need more down the road.
You never know what you want to toss up another mic or two, especially if you are recording everything at the same time.
 
I've never found the 48kHz thing a problem and tend to record everything at 44.1 for basic music/sound and 48 if it's for video. At the risk of startig a debate, I believe mr Nyquist and my ears can't hear any difference in moving to 88.2 or 96 kHz. My set up is 100% ADAT (digital mixer with ADAT outs via a now old fashioned Profire Lightbridge) and it has worked well for me for many years.

I think the OP's proposed system would would work well. Both the Scarlett and the Octopre are excellent units for the money.
 
I wasn't thinking so much about a need to record at 96k...just pointing out that with the Octopre, the ADAT format limits 8 channels to 48k...some people may not want that.
I'm doing everything at 48k these days...even though I use to record at 88.2...but not in a long time. :)

I'm just into the whole keep it neat, logical and symmetrical type of thing with gear.
So doing a pair of same devices would be my personal approach because of that...not to mention, I really prefer full racked gear.
I hate all the little non-19"-rack boxes and stuff that ends up on the table, on the side, on the floor...etc. :D
 
Thanks everyone for your input (see what I did there?):)

I'm just doing this as a hobby - I'm a one man band so most of the time I will be recording one instrument / set of mics at a time and layer up / overdub my tracks. However on the occasion I get together with some mates and jam, and would love to record some of our tracks.

For the cost (and the ratio of 6.3mm and XLR inputs there are) I found this to be the best compromise of cost vs performance. Looking into some standalone 16 I/O devices they seem to go around the $2000 mark and upwards, and they don't seem have as many XLR inputs as i'd like.. (someone will probably prove me wrong here)

With this setup, I get 12 XLR inputs and 4 6.3mm inputs. Which for $1.2k I think is pretty awesome!

Long story short this is by far not a "professional" or money making setup, so I don't mind recording in 44.1 kHz as long as I can see all the inputs in my DAW :)
 
miroslav said:
I wasn't thinking so much about a need to record at 96k...just pointing out that with the Octopre, the ADAT format limits 8 channels to 48k...some people may not want that.
I'm doing everything at 48k these days...even though I use to record at 88.2...but not in a long time. :)

I'm just into the whole keep it neat, logical and symmetrical type of thing with gear.
So doing a pair of same devices would be my personal approach because of that...not to mention, I really prefer full racked gear.
I hate all the little non-19"-rack boxes and stuff that ends up on the table, on the side, on the floor...etc. :D
Click to expand...

Just FMI, is the Octopre locked at 48kHz? All my ADAT stuff can switch between 44.1 and 48 at the full channel count (and, in fact, go up to 96kHz if I wanted needlessly big files and half the channel count. I've only used an Octopre a couple of times on projects that wanted 48kHz anyway so never had to worry about changing the sample rate.
 
Bobbsy said:
Just FMI, is the Octopre locked at 48kHz? All my ADAT stuff can switch between 44.1 and 48 at the full channel count (and, in fact, go up to 96kHz if I wanted needlessly big files and half the channel count. I've only used an Octopre a couple of times on projects that wanted 48kHz anyway so never had to worry about changing the sample rate.
Click to expand...

Digital Channel Outputs:

2x ADAT Lightpipe (TOSLINK) outputs. Provides 8 channels per port (16 total) at 44.1 and 48kHz.
Provide 4 channels per port (8 total) at 88.2 and 96kHz (S-MUX).
*Note that when running at 44.1 or 48kHz, the digital outputs are mirrored, providing outputs 1 - 8 on both ports.


Yeah looks like it does the same thing. How did you find the octopre?
 
I quite liked the sound--the pre amps sounded nice and quiet and neutral to me which is what I ask for. Mind you I was comparing it to the Behringer ADA8000s I have for live work. They're workhorses but noisy as hell if you go above 3/4 on the gain knob. They only get used for things like drums or line level inputs like keyboards or my radio mics when working live.
 
Yes, IMHO 96kHz is for people with more hard drive purchasing power than sense! (and the CPU is chugging away harder)

The latest Soundcraft Signature mixer might be worth consideration? With that many players and ideas of expansion, facilities like Talkback/foldback rear their heads.

Product Review - Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK

Dave.
 
A couple reasons..

1. I play with other people and we would like to record our stuff as well

2. I want to just jump from instrument to instrument and hit record without juggling cables around

3. I know a few casual bands that want to be able to record, and i would love to expand my studio
 
That looks like a great find Dave! When it's actually released (Soundcraft say a few weeks) I may have to re-write my sticky on mixers and home recording. FYI, a bit of digging says there's a 12 channel version for $449 in the States and Thomann lists them for just over 300 pounds in the UK.

Could be a bit of a game changer in terms of the best way to get multiple inputs.
 
First:
Chili said:
Remember, most DAW programs can use only one interface at a time.
Click to expand...
In Windows it's kind of a bitch to get acceptable performance out of more than one interface at a time. If you're lucky you might be able to kudge it together via ASIO4All, and I hear it works fine for a lot of people. I've had nothing but poor experiences with ASIO4All, but that was back when I was trying to run 5 x PCI cards at once... In Apple world, apparently, it's pretty easy.


Then:
Everybody knows I'm nuts, and I'm sure this will be blown off completely, but the only reason I ever worry about whether I get an XLR or TRS hole is when I know I need phantom power. I have XLR>TRS cables and I'm not the least bit afraid to use them. With modern gear, 24 bit ADC, and floating point in the DAW, most mics on most sources don't really need a preamp. Maybe if you were talking about some fancy tube thing with transformers and all that shit that gives them "character", you'd have a reason to turn the gain knob, but on my solid state pres I pretty much just set them to unity more than 99% of the time. Granted, my go-to mics are significantly more sensitive than a 57 or 58, but even with those, if you put them in front of a snare, a cranked amp, or a screaming maniac, those meters are going to move plenty.

Edit - Oh!
I'd suggest looking at the Tascam things. The US1604 that I have is more than I have ever needed, though barely. The 1800 which replaced it has now been replaced itself in the product line, and is going for reasonable prices on the used market. Even the brand new model is cheaper than what you're talking about.

I suppose it's worth mentioning, too, that you can always go buy any number of preamps to go into those 1/4" holes if you find you need it, and/or are afraid of the adapter cables for some reason. Heck, get a couple different flavors for fun! You'd probably still be saving money. Or just use the direct out/inserts from whatever mixer you've got lying around.
 
ashcat_lt said:
In Windows it's kind of a bitch to get acceptable performance out of more than one interface at a time.
Click to expand...

I've been running 3 converters, 8-channels each, with separate cards since W2K...through XP...and now on Win7.
I can use them either with ASIO or WDM...and never had an issue running all three simultaneously., but they are all the same kind and use the same drivers. These are PCI cards...and probably my last build where I can still use them, since few of the newer PCs have three (or any) PCI slots...but this current Win7 box is good enough, 3 Ghz and 16GB ram with quad core extreme processor...it ain't no slouch even if it is a few years old. :)

I've heard other folks talking about issues with running multiple interfaces simultaneously, but I've not had that problem.
These are older Echo Layal24 boxes, and I'm running them with Samplitude ProX. In the DAW, I see all the boxes, I see all their inputs, and everything works fine.



ashcat_lt said:
Everybody knows I'm nuts, and I'm sure this will be blown off completely...

With modern gear, 24 bit ADC, and floating point in the DAW, most mics on most sources don't really need a preamp.
Click to expand...

Why doesn't it surprise me that you would say preamps are not really needed. :D

I dunno...maybe your use of pres is different, but I find that regardless if it's a tube/tranny deal or solid state...there's all kinds of different flavors you can get with how you set your gain knobs on a preamp and the interaction between the mic and the pre relative to that.
So just to be sure I understand you....you're plugging your mic into a Line input...and then jacking the gain way up high to get enough signal from the mic...???
So like, if you put aside real loud sources where you have a 100W amp dime'd...what do you do for acoustic instruments, vocals, etc....where the preamp gain is critical...???

Hey...if it works for you, :thumbs up:...just sayin that the rest of the "non-nuts" world finds plenty use for preamp stages. ;)

I'm waiting for the day you talk about a solid copper wire going from your guitar to your DAW...and where you've removed every other piece of gear in-between 'cuz you don't need it. :p
 
Bobbsy said:
That looks like a great find Dave! When it's actually released (Soundcraft say a few weeks) I may have to re-write my sticky on mixers and home recording. FYI, a bit of digging says there's a 12 channel version for $449 in the States and Thomann lists them for just over 300 pounds in the UK.

Could be a bit of a game changer in terms of the best way to get multiple inputs.
Click to expand...

Very open minded of you Bobbs! You are a gentleman and a scholar! There is a slight downside to the mixer? Footprint, lot of channels but an AI setup could probably be done in a more compact way?

Mind you, if son were home and wanted a rig for gigging and recording I reckon I would sell up the present collection and go for a Siggy for him!

Dave.
 
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