* Tascam MX-80 (Update) *

[BeatleFred]

Hopefully, 'Sweetbeats' notices this updated post- I figured I would simply create a new discusssion rather than bump-up old ones from years ago, if it makes things easier?

The old posts did have some interesting info on the vintage 1980's MX-80, and I am finally ready to see if I can put mine to use after acquiring it a while ago, thus I re-read the
operating manual to determine if I can implement some of the ideas I have in mind to use this unit in a beneficial way.

I imagine not all Teac-Tascam folks might even know what an MX-80 is, but for anyone who is interested, I attached two online pics, as well as the link for the op-manual to refer to.

'Sweetbeats' - I imagine you are the "guru" on this very cool device, so if you dont mind, I would like to share some thoughts with you and see what you think of them. I am also curious if you still use yours, presuming its still working reliably (I saw in an old post that you actually modified/upgraded it). Mine seems to be functional, I suppose I will know better on that, once I have a chance to start connecting things to it, for now, hopefully all is well, and the only thing it might need is a deoxit cleaning on some scratchy knobs/pots, so that they can be turned without being noisy.

OK, so.... MX-80! The op manual gives a decent overview, but some things seem unclear:

1) Condenser mics: Being so common nowadays, to use one with an MX-80 requires 48 V phantom power. I dont understand whats-up with the two prong XLR on the MX-80, but it seems to me the easiest solution is to just buy an inexpensive phantom power supply on Amazon, and just disregard the phantom connector on the MX-80. Besides, having an external phantom supply would be handy to use with my vintage Tascam M-1516 mixer which does not provide that capability either for condenser mics.


2) The manual mentions the use of external effects - they can be patched into the MX-80's send/rcv jacks- that sounds great, as I have a whole bunch of devices that can easily fill up all 8 channels on the MX-80, such as: Lexicon Alex, Roland DEP-5, Dimension D, ART Pro VLA 2 compressor, Electro Harmonix 95000 Looper, TC Helicon Play Acoustic, and a Mini Beat Buddy drum machine.

These rack effects and other devices can be used on vocals, and its clear from all the XLR mic inputs that the MX-80 is mainly designed to be used with microphones, but there is NO MENTION at all about INSTRUMENTS. It would be great to be able to play thru these effects with my electric guitar (or acoustic with preamp).

After thinking about it, I realized it should be the same as plugging an electric guitar into any other mixer with XLR inputs- just insert a Direct Box between the instrument and the XLR input on the MX-80. (Guitar 1/4" Out into DI Box 1/4" in, DI XLR out to MX-80 XLR In).

I suppose another option (if someone did not have a DI box) would be to plug electric into an amp, and connect the Line Out of the amp to the MX-80 xlr input (presuming the guitar amp has a line out, otherwise- headphone jack out?).

3) Connection/Use of Effects: I realize the MX-80 is circa 1985, but even so... I dont get why Tascam is "shy" when it comes to 1/4" connectors, which would have been very useful on the MX-80 (and the same as well on the M1 Line mixer). As far as I know, most effects, be it rack type or pedal-stompboxes all use 1/4", NOT RCA's! But ok, so to get around that, looks like its a matter of buying some extra 1/4" to RCA cables so the 1/4" equipped devices can be connected to the RCAonly equipped MX-80. or a Tascam 1/4"-RCA Patchbay.

4) Signal Routing: Ok, so if I connect a bunch of devices to each Send/Rcv channel of the MX-80, and I plug my guitar & DI Box into say.. the XLR Input channel 1 of MX-80: It seems that my guitar will only be to play thru whichever device is connected to thee SAME channel (Channel 1) (after the Gain and Trim's are adjusted). What if I want to play my guitar thru any of the other effects?? I imagine that means the guitar/di box has to be reconnected to another channel- thus, if want the effect on send/rcv channel 7, have to connect guitar/di box to XLR 7, and so forth for all channels.

Question: Does the MX-80 allow the capability to play the guitar thru several or all effects simultaneously? That would be great, as this would be a beneficial use of an MX-80, as opposed to connecting effects instead to the Aux Sends/Returns of a standard mixer (such as my Tascam M-1516) when playing/recording.

I have several ways of Multitrack Recording, (I just turned 60, so I still love the analog equipment, but open minded to the digital world as well), Teac A-3440 with Model 2A/MB-20, M-1516 and M-106 mixers, DP-24SD & DP-008EX, and Scarlett 18i8 interface- havent decided on DAW yet- probably start simple with Ipad Air 2 and Garageband.

For example, if I wanted to use the modern-day DP-24SD to record on: even though it has some built in effects, it only has capability to connect just one external device to its left/rightjacks, unless I imagine someone connects several effects in series in within the 24SD's single out/in jack.

Thus, I was wondering about interfacing an MX-80 to the DP-24, in order to use the up-to-8 effects on the MX-80 to record guitar onto the DP-24SD. Also: would connecting mics to the MX-80 be better- to send the mic signal to the DP-24 mic inputs, or are the modern day mic preamps within the DP-24SD actually better than than of a vintage MX-80?

I figured it might also be convenient to use the MX-80 as a "Mic Patchbay"- Just connect mics to the MX-80 and keep them there, and then run the MX-80 outputs to whichever recorder 's mic/line inputs I want, compared to constantly moving mics to whichever recorder/mixer I was in the mood to use.

TASCAM MX-80 OWNER'S MANUAL Pdf Download

View and Download Tascam MX-80 owner's manual online. microphone mixer. MX-80 music mixer pdf manual download.

www.manualslib.com

 

[Serendipity Records]

"Mentioning" like this will get his attention: @sweetbeats

 

[sweetbeats]

'Sweetbeats'…I am also curious if you still use yours, presuming it’s still working reliably (I saw in an old post that you actually modified/upgraded it). Mine seems to be functional…the only thing it might need is a deoxit cleaning on some scratchy knobs/pots, so that they can be turned without being noisy.

The one I’ve posted about I sold many, many years ago. The MX-80 was the very first piece of Tascam rack-mount gear I ever owned. I didn’t do any upgrades on it…but I did repair a dead mic amp (bad opamp)…and replaced the bizarro 2-pin XLR phantom power input jack with a standard 3-pin type. More on that below to answer your questions. Anyway, no other mods and no upgrades, but a couple-three years ago I found one going for cheap that was clean and complete, so I bought it…not sure if it was nostalgia or if I actually had need for something like it…it was probably the former because I rarely use it, but that’s just because there isn’t demand for it with the other devices I have here. I actually, up until yesterday, had two. I bought another one after the last one that was going for *really* cheap…$30 I think? I think I bought it for the SEND/RCV jumpers. Anyway it was missing the switch caps, really super filthy, top of the case caved in, back panel bent…pretty beat up. But it 100% worked, and as a bonus came with an original manual and set of schematics. So I cleaned it up and straightened all the metal out. I’m on a bit of a gear and stuff purge right now…my comprehensively refurbished and serviced super-clean 238 is on the market with RC-88 for instance. And I put the second MX-80 on the market locally for $50. Gone. Anyway…the MX-80 is such a handy box with the patch points, mute and pad controls, 8 x 2 summing…so I keep it around. The mic amp is identical to the M-50/M-500 series mic amp. It has a 4-transistor discrete front end with an opamp follower, a TL072. Which is fine. But I did some testing and a 5532 is happy in the application too, so I think I may replace those 8 opamps with the 5532 someday. The trick is the original parts are a relatively uncommon SIP-9 package. But SIP-8 will work, you just have to jumper pin 1 over to the now vacant pin 9 solder pad when you install the SIP-8 part. JRC SIP-8 5532 parts can still be purchased. The other thing that is helpful is there is a relatively large non-polar cap in the circuit, 470uF. Replacing that with a high quality new part can improve the HF performance of the circuit. Anything new will probably help, but I’m a sucker for the Nichicon MUSE series for this sort of thing when it’s in the signal path and that large in value, since HF performance of an electrolytic cap suffers as the capacity increases. And while I’m on the subject of caps, if cleaning pots and switches doesn’t help with the skritchies, it might be time to recap. Coupling caps in the signal path are there to block DC that is typical in solid-state circuits as a result of DC offset at the output of various amplifier stages. As the caps age they don’t do that as well, and DC in the signal path makes skritchies.

1) Condenser mics: Being so common nowadays, to use one with an MX-80 requires 48 V phantom power. I dont understand whats-up with the two prong XLR on the MX-80, but it seems to me the easiest solution is to just buy an inexpensive phantom power supply on Amazon, and just disregard the phantom connector on the MX-80. Besides, having an external phantom supply would be handy to use with my vintage Tascam M-1516 mixer which does not provide that capability either for condenser mics.

Sure you can do that, but you need an external supply regardless. The odd 2-pin connector is for the purpose of connecting an external phantom supply to the internal phantom rail on the MX-80. I have a little Rolls supply and also one by Stewart Electronics. They have enough oomph to power multiple mics. I was never able to find a cable-mount female 2-pin XLR plug to mate with the jack on the MX-80, which is why I replaced the one in my original MX-80 with a standard 3-pin type. When you connect the external supply to the phantom jack, then you can just use the individual per-channel phantom switches to power any mic that requires phantom power that’s plugged in to the MX-80. Or you can do what you suggested and use the external supply inline with your mic.

To be continued…

 

[sweetbeats]

…it’s clear from all the XLR mic inputs that the MX-80 is mainly designed to be used with microphones, but there is NO MENTION at all about INSTRUMENTS. It would be great to be able to play thru these effects with my electric guitar (or acoustic with preamp).

After thinking about it, I realized it should be the same as plugging an electric guitar into any other mixer with XLR inputs- just insert a Direct Box between the instrument and the XLR input on the MX-80. (Guitar 1/4" Out into DI Box 1/4" in, DI XLR out to MX-80 XLR In).

I suppose another option (if someone did not have a DI box) would be to plug electric into an amp, and connect the Line Out of the amp to the MX-80 xlr input (presuming the guitar amp has a line out, otherwise- headphone jack out?).

The MX-80 is, as stated right on the front panel, is a “microphone/line mixer”. The XLR inputs are designed for microphones, but, using the trim and pad functions, the XLR inputs can handle line level signals as well. So, yes, you can plug a passive guitar into a DI box and connect the output to one of the XLR inputs. You can use a passive matching transformer too. If your instrument is active you can likely plug straight into the XLR input (using an adapter of course), or use the line out of an amp or an instrument preamp…doesn’t matter. The MX-80 can handle signal types from mic to line level.

3) Connection/Use of Effects: I realize the MX-80 is circa 1985, but even so... I dont get why Tascam is "shy" when it comes to 1/4" connectors, which would have been very useful on the MX-80 (and the same as well on the M1 Line mixer). As far as I know, most effects, be it rack type or pedal-stompboxes all use 1/4", NOT RCA's! But ok, so to get around that, looks like its a matter of buying some extra 1/4" to RCA cables so the 1/4" equipped devices can be connected to the RCAonly equipped MX-80. or a Tascam 1/4"-RCA Patchbay.

Yep. The RCA jacks are lower cost and were very common on lots and lots of prosumer equipment…not just Tascam. So get yourself some adapters and be happy. FWIW the RCA type pin-jack connectors actually have better contact surface area than 1/4” type jacks. But I hear you.

4) Signal Routing: Ok, so if I connect a bunch of devices to each Send/Rcv channel of the MX-80, and I plug my guitar & DI Box into say.. the XLR Input channel 1 of MX-80: It seems that my guitar will only be to play thru whichever device is connected to thee SAME channel (Channel 1) (after the Gain and Trim's are adjusted).

Correct.

What if I want to play my guitar thru any of the other effects?? I imagine that means the guitar/di box has to be reconnected to another channel- thus, if want the effect on send/rcv channel 7, have to connect guitar/di box to XLR 7, and so forth for all channels.

Yep. Repatch. That’s what you force yourself to do if you want to use the MX-80 that way. A patchbay can be handy in this situation, but you still have to patch. But some level of patching is common with all sorts of systems and setups, basic to fancy.

Question: Does the MX-80 allow the capability to play the guitar thru several or all effects simultaneously? That would be great, as this would be a beneficial use of an MX-80, as opposed to connecting effects instead to the Aux Sends/Returns of a standard mixer (such as my Tascam M-1516) when playing/recording.

Nope. You’re wanting multiple busses. That’s not what the MX-80 is or does. It has unbalanced per channel patch points, and 8 x 2 summing. That’s it. There’s only the one stereo buss.

I have several ways of Multitrack Recording, (I just turned 60, so I still love the analog equipment, but open minded to the digital world as well), Teac A-3440 with Model 2A/MB-20, M-1516 and M-106 mixers, DP-24SD & DP-008EX, and Scarlett 18i8 interface- havent decided on DAW yet- probably start simple with Ipad Air 2 and Garageband.

For example, if I wanted to use the modern-day DP-24SD to record on: even though it has some built in effects, it only has capability to connect just one external device to its left/rightjacks, unless I imagine someone connects several effects in series in within the 24SD's single out/in jack.

Right. The designers anticipated the user would use the internal effects. If you want to accomplish what you are suggesting then, yes, you’d have to chain multiple devices and, depending on the device, maybe not have the ability to mix dry and wet signals, or alternatively just use a device that has the functionality you are seeking. These things are tools. Figure out your workflow and pick the right tools for your process. Don’t do it the other way around. Insert points are usually used for dynamics processing, and sometimes a specific type of EQ filter and/or a time alignment delay (as opposed to a special effects delay). It sounds like a lot of your effects are really send-type effects and wouldn’t normally be inserted at patch points, but rather would use AUX bussing facilities.

Thus, I was wondering about interfacing an MX-80 to the DP-24, in order to use the up-to-8 effects on the MX-80 to record guitar onto the DP-24SD.

I really don’t know what the advantage would be…you’re basically using the MX-80 as a more complicated way of passing the guitar through an effect in series on the way to the DP-24…you’ll have less noise and distortion just leaving the MX-80 out of the loop.

Also: would connecting mics to the MX-80 be better- to send the mic signal to the DP-24 mic inputs, or are the modern day mic preamps within the DP-24SD actually better than than of a vintage MX-80?

They’ll be different sounding, but don’t send the output of the MX-80, which is at line level, to a mic input on the DP-24. Use the line level input on the DP-24, and try both to see what you like. And that may depend on your source.

I figured it might also be convenient to use the MX-80 as a "Mic Patchbay"- Just connect mics to the MX-80 and keep them there, and then run the MX-80 outputs to whichever recorder 's mic/line inputs I want, compared to constantly moving mics to whichever recorder/mixer I was in the mood to use.

I suppose you could do that…just keeping in mind that maybe for some things the mic directly connected to the DP-24 might sound better. So keep an open mind. And also keep in mind it is extremely normal during recording processes to unplug and plug stuff in and patch and repatch. Don’t get lost in some pursuit of not having to patch stuff…it’s all just means to capturing some music. It’s not the end. This is good advice for me too.

 

[BeatleFred]

Hi S.B.- I really appreciate your time to respond, along with all the helpful info- cheers!

I will experiment some more with the MX-80 this weekend. I was able to try out a few things the other night. The knobs/pots all seem ok, but I figured I would take the cover off and have a look inside. I am not handy at all, so when it come to tools and taking things apart, it seldom comes easy for me, thus I was only able to spray some cleaner on the lower row. There is a circuit board than runs across the unit which blocks access to the pots for the top row, so I just left it at that rather than try to continue further taking it apart.

I did connect my electric guitar/di box into channel 1 - the DI box has an XLR out, so it goes right in. I then connected a Lexicon Alex into Channel 1's send/rcv jacks. I also connected a Mini Beat Buddy drum machine into Channel 2's Rcv jack via a 1/4" to RCA cable. In this case, the drum machine does not need an input, so I verified that I can play the guitar thru Lexicon delay effect and drum machine simultaneously thru pa speakers and adjust each of their levels and panning, so I thought that was cool. However, when I connected another effects unit to Channel 3's send/rcv, Roland DEP-5, I did verify that it wont output sound unless I reconnect my guitar to that channel- which is what I expected... but its ok, its not necessarily a dealbreaker, as there is no real need to have to play thru two effects simultaneously, when playing thru them individually will suffice- I was just curious as I was learning about the MX-80 if it could provide that capability and so forth.

Right now is the ideal time for such experimentation- I figured, play around with it and see what it can or cant do, BEFORE committing myself to installing it in a rack, and investing alot of time to hook up wires/patchbays, etc and to other equipment, only to discover some unexpected issue happens afterward that would be a headache to deal with and I end up wasting time in the whole process.

Basically, it would be nice to put the MX-80 to use, I realize it was designed a certain way, and although I can probably exert some flexibility to its functions that is not mentioned in the manual (connect a guitar & effects to it, not just mics), I also understand that I cant have it all (play thru all channels simultaneously, except if its a device like a drum machine that is output only, and does not require an input).

I also have an M1B, though I cant find any op manual for it online, I am interested to see what Tascam described in it, I imagine not too much info if its only rca in and out jacks. I dont really see a useful way of using a guitar/effects with it, its probably better suited to connecting a bunch of rca equipped stereo equipment (cd players, tape decks) to an stereo amp and switching between components, a stereo preamp in effect, I suppose. One feature I like is it has Headphone jacks- which is not on the MX-80 (could play my guitar/effects at night thru the headphones and not disturb anyone), but I imagine there was no extra space on the MX-80 to put a Headphone jack, oh well....

One other cool device I thought I would mention, the Sansui AX-7, from the late 70's. The way that I am into Teac/Tascam for vintage recorders/mixers, I am in to Sansui for their vintage 1970's stereo equipment (BA-5000, G-9000, AU-717, etc...) They made a unit called an AX-7 which is neat- it can be used to simplify signal routing, such as switching between three preamps to one main amp, but it can also accomodate a guitar, mics, has built in reverb, can adjust levels and panning... its basically a fun 'toy' to play with, so I might try my MX-80 ideas on the AX-7 as well and see how they compare.

 

[sweetbeats]

…I was only able to spray some cleaner on the lower row. There is a circuit board than runs across the unit which blocks access to the pots for the top row, so I just left it at that…

What cleaner are you using? How are you applying it to the pots you can access?

And, yep, in order to access both main boards you have to mostly disassemble the chassis, remove the face plate and remove all the pot nuts so you can pull each board free.

I also have an M1B, though I cant find any op manual for it online…I dont really see a useful way of using a guitar/effects with it…

I don’t have the Owner’s Manual, or at least I can’t find it, but I do have the Service Manual. So I reviewed that…took a peek at the front and back panels, block diagram and schematics. Think of the M-1B as an MX-80 without the 8 mic inputs. It’s missing some other features of the MX-80 but has a couple things the MX-80 does not. Try this on for size…So remember I said the MX-80 is like 8 mic inputs each with a direct out, and then an 8x2 line mixer. The M-1B is an 8x2 line mixer with a headphone amp and stereo out. Plus foldback connections for each of the 8 line inputs. Between those two devices you have enough stuff to basically incorporate an AUX buss into your MX-80 system; either 1 stereo AUX buss or 2 mono busses. It would work better as a stereo buss because of limitations in how the wet signal comes back into your main mix. But you’d do it like this: sources connect to the XLR jacks of the MX-80; SEND jacks connect to the line input jacks on the M-1B; foldback jacks on the M1-B connect to the RCV jacks on the MX-80. You now have two parallel 8x2 mixes with the same sources. Use the MX-80 as your dry main mix. Use the M-1B to create an effect send mix of all sources. Connect the line out of the M-1B to the inputs of your processor or processors of choice. Depending on the processors and whether or not they have bypass controls, you could setup a small chain and get a lot of utility out of just that one buss. Make sure the output of the processor or processors is/are set to be 100% all effected signal or “wet”…no dry signal because that’s being mixed on the MX-80, and you have independent mix control of those two mixes, and then you’re going to combine the dry and wet mixes at the end of the chain. Connect the output of the processor or processors to the BUSS IN jacks of the MX-80. Those jacks bring signal back in and combine it with the main mix ahead of the output level controls. The LINE OUT jacks of the MX-80 now have the combined sum of the independent 8x2 dry mix from the MX-80 using the LEVEL and PAN controls there, and the 8x2 wet mix of the M-1B using the LEVEL and PAN controls on that post effect chain. The master level control on the M-1B takes care of your overall effect mix level in order to adjust the right balance of wet and dry mixes, and the output level control on the MX-80 handles your overall level.

I fully realize you’re learning and experimenting and playing around, and I respect that, but I want to point out what you now have is an 8x2 mix with a stereo AUX buss…very basic…no EQ, somewhat cumbersome monitoring facilities…and you’re going to need a small mess of cabling to interface the MX-80 and M-1B. A basic 8x2 mixer does all this and more without all the cabling. So just put that nugget somewhere.

One feature I like is it has Headphone jacks- which is not on the MX-80 (could play my guitar/effects at night thru the headphones and not disturb anyone), but I imagine there was no extra space on the MX-80 to put a Headphone jack…

There’s plenty of extra space for a jack. But it’s not just the jack. There’s an amplifier circuit needed for the jack. There’s room for that too. But you’d have to scavenge it from something else or build it up. Alternatively, depending on your set of headphones and the specific output driver, you can just buy a female TRS to dual male RCA stereo adapter and connect your headphones to something like the LINE OUT jacks on the MX-80…instant headphone jack. I do this all the time for testing various outputs when I’m working on a device with a set of Sennheiser HD280 headphones. Again, this doesn’t always work and it depends on the headphones as well as the output driver, but I can verify this works on the LINE OUT jacks of the MX-80. As a related aside, with my proposed setup above using the MX-80 in conjunction with the M-1B, you’d have the utility of the headphone jacks on the M-1B, but that would be monitoring your effects mix and not your main mix, so it’s not ideal. It’s too bad…it’s a decent headphone amp using a 5532 driving a discrete transistor output stage riding on +/-20V power. Way better than the LM386-based circuit that’s in a bunch of other period devices. I never understood that one…low headroom and it’s typically pretty noisy. Fine for maintenance monitoring but unacceptable for critical listening.

 

[BeatleFred]

Hi 'SB', its very nice of you to provide all the info that you did- its too bad we're not neighbors and could just hang out in person so you could see the equipment and discuss-advise, vs having to spend alot more time online, typing in all the instructions/ideas word by word. But its ok, I appreciate it nonetheless.

I will have to let your ideas soak in a bit in regard to cascading the MX-80 & M1B together. Its a good brain-workout for me to visualize your suggestions on hooking up both units in tandem to achieve various signal routing functions. (as for the cleaner I used- its a can of 'Max Pro').

I suppose its a matter of asking myself, what do I want to achieve- is a matter of just experimenting/having fun by finding ways of finally putting various equipment I acquired in the past to use now, such as the MX-80 and M1B... or do I want to not overly complicate things, and just find the most efficient way of recording some music onto my equipment that sounds decent, as a hobby (not pro studio, pro musician level.) Thus, I have to think it thru and determine if its worthwhile to try out the MX-80/M1B, vs just utilizing the Tascam M-1516 mixer I already have which should be well equipped to handle most of the basic tasks, along with some other devices I have as well, such as the MH-40 headphone amp and GE-20 equalizer- that I'd like to see put to use vs just sitting inactive- which is not good for most electronics in general. Or find some middle ground and use the M-1516 mixer as the main device, and use the MX-80 and M1B as a submixer, or for smaller tasks. I suppose if I am just playing/recording by myself, then the less need for extra equipment clutter, compared to having extra people come over to play/record with as well...

For now, I have alot of equipment in a small 10x15 bedroom, with no acoustic treatment, the houses on my block are all attached, so there is not alot or privacy, I can easily hear the small dog next door barking thru the concrete wall, as if there was almost no wall at all (thus why I mentioned about headphones capability on the MX-80). Ideally, it would best to move some equipment to the larger size basement, and I hope to be able to remodel it in the future, and I can then better configure things down there.. but for now, I have to just make do as best I can, and again- its all just a hobby-fun, does not have to be super perfect....

The thing is, I have several ways of recording music- and I like them all: analog with Teac A-3440 (with any of my mixers- 2A/MB-20, M-106, or M-1516, and MX-80/1B?) digital with DP-24SD, or with audio interface-DAW, Scarlett 18i8 into Ipad/Garageband.

If it helps to clarify: as an example, I would like to record a cover song, lets say something like 'Peaceful Easy Feeling' by the Eagles, or 'Sundown'- Gordon Lightfoot. I would start by using two mics, one for acoustic guitar, the other for vocals, and play acoustic and sing simultaneously, along with some kind of drum beat recorded on another track to keep time. (I dont have an actual drummer, so I'd have to figure out how to sample or program a similar drum pattern to the original drums on the recording).

I imagine it would be nice to have a little reverb on the vocals along with compression to keep the level consistent as I am singing and playing, but also have the reverb and compression adjustable as I am mixing/mastering it afterward, to see if I need to add more or less of it. (thus, how to record it dry, but hear it wet when I am playing...)

After the vocal/acoustic with drum beat (on tracks 1, 2, and 3), I would probably overdub a bass guitar onto track 4, then add electric guitar (with effects) onto Track 5, and then further fill out the sound on remaining tracks, such as adding an extra acoustic, or electric part, and harmony vocal. Thats pretty much the general idea.

As I mentioned earlier, I have to visualize the MX-80 to M1B connections you suggested. Can you clarify on that? If I have an electric guitar, acoustic guitar and bass, I presume I can connect each of these three (with direct box/preamp) to the three XL input channels of the MX-80. And lets say I have an ART Pro VLA II dual channel compressor (one channel guitar, other channel for vocal), a delay processor- Lexicon Alex (also can be used to put delat/reverb etc on either guitar or vocals), how would I run the connections between the MX-80 and 1B's ins and outs, foldbacks and so forth.... I also have an Electro Harmonix 9500 looper- which is virtually a multitrack recorder in itself, so not sure if that can be connected in the loop somewhere, no pun intended...

By the way, as I was trying to become better acquainted with the M-1516 mixer, I connected an electric guitar/di box to an mic input, along with an effects processor to an Aux Send (Aux Send 3) to see if I can hear sound thru the headphone jack... I was puzzled as to why not hearing anything when pressed the monitor button for Aux 3, being that the send/receive is connected to Aux 3... until I found out, a buss has to be selected and its fader turned up, so just goes to show, I am in the process of learning and figuring things out- the sound is heard only when 1-2 or 3-4 buss button is selected, not AUX 3 as I was expecting, and also the PFL button off or on to hear the dry sound and the wet effect sound....

 

[BeatleFred]

ps: I rearranged a few things since this pic was taken, but this is the music room I am referring to. Other pic is the basement mancave.

 

[sweetbeats]

I will have to let your ideas soak in a bit in regard to cascading the MX-80 & M1B together. Its a good brain-workout for me to visualize your suggestions on hooking up both units in tandem to achieve various signal routing functions. (as for the cleaner I used- its a can of 'Max Pro').

Yeah do that. I do the same thing…the exercise of how stuff would be hooked up and how it would work and what re-patching would need done as you execute your workflow process.

Regarding the Max Pro product, they make all sorts of electronics chemicals under that brand. What specific product did you use?

I suppose its a matter of asking myself, what do I want to achieve- is a matter of just experimenting/having fun by finding ways of finally putting various equipment I acquired in the past to use now, such as the MX-80 and M1B... or do I want to not overly complicate things, and just find the most efficient way of recording some music onto my equipment that sounds decent…I have…the MH-40 headphone amp and GE-20 equalizer- that I'd like to see put to use vs just sitting inactive- which is not good for most electronics in general. Or find some middle ground and use the M-1516 mixer as the main device, and use the MX-80 and M1B as a submixer, or for smaller tasks. I suppose if I am just playing/recording by myself, then the less need for extra equipment clutter, compared to having extra people come over to play/record with as well...

Dude I just gotta say, like, let me be the last person to critique anybody about exploring and trying different things out to see what they like and what works best, but if we DID live more proximal to each other, and I DID come over to talk shop about your setup and equipment, the FIRST thing I would steer you to do is use that M-1516. Learn it, set it up as the hub to your studio. And, yeah, sure, you have this other gear and you want to figure out how to use it, but I’d urge you to rather develop and/or acclimate to your workflow and then use the equipment that most appropriately supports that workflow…function follows form…rather than try and figure your workflow out from the gear. I have a fair amount of extraneous gear here, or at least I presume it may be extraneous, but I picked it up because I know what facets I want to the setup, and the gear needs repair or restoration, and I haven’t gotten to all that because of time constraints, but what I’m looking exceedingly forward to is to have stuff hooked up and learn what of that equipment I don’t like, is not useful, or otherwise misses the mark and then to simplify things…have only those things that are necessary and helpful to the workflow, only the gear I love using and that gets the job done in a pleasing way. And in an analog studio or analog-based hybrid studio, I believe the center of the gear universe should be the console, not multiple devices that don’t provide the necessary functionality, and/or get in the way of workflow/productivity. Your M-1516 has a substantial amount of input and output capability, main, sub dual and auxiliary mixes with inline monitoring flexibility, and a total of 38 inputs including 3 stereo inputs in the master section. And, using the DUAL buss, you can actually access all of those inputs simultaneously. Maybe you need 8 more mic inputs on top of the 16 on the console or need to run multiple sub mixes and have to use your MX-80 and M-1B that way…or maybe you’re going to have a bunch of people over that all need some basic headphone mixes and you use the MH-40 for that…or you want to EQ a studio feed and run the GE-20 for that…I don’t know…don’t use the GE-20 on your control room feed please. But I’d focus on learning and setting up the console and then if and when you discover gaps then look to that extra gear. All of those rackmount boxes were marketed under the moniker “System Enhancement Series”, intended for, system enhancement, not primary systems. Sure, they can be creatively used however you want to use them, but based on what you’re telling us you’d like to accomplish, that sounds like a job for your M-1516.

For now, I have alot of equipment in a small 10x15 bedroom, with no acoustic treatment…

That’s similar to the area of my 8’ x 17’ space…no treatment yet, but the shape of the room is actually working out really well as far as how the system sounds…likely will add maybe a total of four small mineral wool panels, but even as it is it sounds good. I have a lot of stuff in here. I posted a pic on some other thread a little while ago. But it’s WAY better than my previous 8’ x 10’ space, and the new space has a small closet too. It works.

I have several ways of recording music- and I like them all…

Hah! Me too. Things that record and reproduce here, both analog and digital, half or quarter-track stereo or multitrack: Tascam 122-B, 244, 238, 58, DA-30, CD-RW2000, Audio Technica AT-RMX64, Roland VSR-880, Yamaha AW4416, 3M M64, Ampex MM-1000, MOTU 8M with Presonus Digimax FS and Harrison Mixbus 32C software-based DAW. But I need to thin the herd and am actively in process of that…it’s all too distracting. And add to that most all of it was non-functional or needed some manner of repair or attention before use…intentionally bought that way due to budget constraints…well, that’s all super distracting and time-consuming too. Each device has some unique facets or features that make them uniquely useful, but, like, with the multitrack devices *any* of them can capture multitrack recordings, and the question is what best fits the workflow. There is tremendous value in terms of production results in getting very familiar with a limited set of adequate tools. You can achieve better results with the familiarity, and the consistency and practice is what really teaches you what, if any limitations, the gear presents, and helps guide what changes, if any, you make to your setup over time.

I imagine it would be nice to have a little reverb on the vocals along with compression to keep the level consistent as I am singing and playing, but also have the reverb and compression adjustable as I am mixing/mastering it afterward, to see if I need to add more or less of it. (thus, how to record it dry, but hear it wet when I am playing...)

Yeah that’s very typical process and your M-1516 can easily facilitate that.

To be continued…

 

[sweetbeats]

As I mentioned earlier, I have to visualize the MX-80 to M1B connections you suggested. Can you clarify on that? If I have an electric guitar, acoustic guitar and bass, I presume I can connect each of these three (with direct box/preamp) to the three XL input channels of the MX-80. And lets say I have an ART Pro VLA II dual channel compressor (one channel guitar, other channel for vocal), a delay processor- Lexicon Alex (also can be used to put delat/reverb etc on either guitar or vocals), how would I run the connections between the MX-80 and 1B's ins and outs, foldbacks and so forth.... I also have an Electro Harmonix 9500 looper- which is virtually a multitrack recorder in itself, so not sure if that can be connected in the loop somewhere, no pun intended...

So here is a drawing of what I described in my last post:



But that was to address the ideation of being able to send multiple inputs to an effects processor. Now you’re talking about insert and send effects AND being able to monitor wet while recording dry and then mix down wet…your order is too tall. Did I mention your M-1516 can do all this? You can do these things with the System Enhancement gear, but only in a limited way and not all at once. Like you could monitor wet and record dry if you disconnected the M-1B LINE OUT from the MX-80 BUSS IN jacks, and monitored off the M-1B headphone jack, but it will be your effects mix and not what is going to your recorder…to monitor that you have to unplug your headphones and plug them in to the LINE OUT jacks of the MX-80, or incorporate the MH-40…but you’ll still have to re-patch the headphone jack to monitor the two different mixes. And speaking of recorder…that’s not even in the picture here…but it would be fed by the same LINE OUT buss of the MX-80 using the AUX OUT jacks which are just a parallel set of LINE OUT jacks. So…right…two channels. This doesn’t address multitracking multiple tracks simultaneously at all…not even a way to monitor two discrete channels in mono…so if you wanted to at least record two discrete tracks simultaneously, you’d have to monitor them that way, like guitar all the way L and vocal all the way R. That’s how you’d have to listen to it during tracking. And now what about a cue mix of your previously recorded tracks during overdubs? No way to listen to those while monitoring new sources without recording those new sources combined with the playback. Insert effects like compression? Sure. Just insert those pre effects between the MX-80 SEND jacks and the M-1B LINE IN jacks, or post effects loop between the M-1B FLB jacks and the MX-80 RCV jacks, but…right…you’ll record those sources post dynamics processor. There’s no way to track without compression but audition the compressed signal while recording. Your M-1516 console can easily do all of this…I’ll leave you with this after which I’m not likely to engage in more exploratory discussion about this…I don’t mean that to be rude, it’s just not a good use of our time…you’re trying to make something work that is not designed or capable of doing what you want…the M-1516 is. You should focus on becoming friends with that thing. It’s a production tool designed for just what you are wanting to do.

By the way, as I was trying to become better acquainted with the M-1516 mixer, I connected an electric guitar/di box to an mic input, along with an effects processor to an Aux Send (Aux Send 3) to see if I can hear sound thru the headphone jack... I was puzzled as to why not hearing anything when pressed the monitor button for Aux 3, being that the send/receive is connected to Aux 3... until I found out, a buss has to be selected and its fader turned up, so just goes to show, I am in the process of learning and figuring things out- the sound is heard only when 1-2 or 3-4 buss button is selected, not AUX 3 as I was expecting, and also the PFL button off or on to hear the dry sound and the wet effect sound....

I’m not following all of the above, but a couple things…the direct box output is line level. It should be connected to a line input, not mic input.

Regarding monitoring the AUX 3 buss, just to clarify the AUX SEND jacks are just that…send only, not send and receive like a conjoined “INSERT” jack. To bring the effected signal back into the mix you connect the output jack or jacks of the effect processor to the EFFECT RETURN jacks, or you can also return them to any open channel strip, but make sure you have the related AUX buss pot in the center position or in other words OFF…otherwise you’ll create a feedback loop. And then if you use an EFFECT RETURN channel you have to turn up the associated LEVEL pot and assign the return to one or more of the mix busses 1/L, 2/R, 3 or 4 using the assign switches, and then make sure those associated faders are raised, etc.

Now regarding not being able to hear the AUX 3 send when selecting it in the monitor select switchrack, first of all confirm you have signal on the channel strip…you can hear it when you PFL the input channel right? If so, good. Then you should have signal to send to the AUX 3 buss. Now, you have to make sure the AUX 3 pot on the input channel is turned up, and note that on the M-1500 series the AUX pots on the input channels are dual function…off is center, not hard L…sweep L from center and and for AUX 3 you’re turning up whatever the dual buss is sourcing on that channel, sweep R from center and you’re turning up the post fader signal. If you sweep R for the post fade signal then you also have to make sure the channel fader is up. Then you also have to make sure the AUX 3 master level pot is turned up. That’s the point in the signal path that feeds the AUX 3 output jack and the monitor pickup point in the monitor select switchrack for the headphones. So try that and make sure you have things set correctly.

 

[Steviek19]

Long time reader and first time poster here. I have recently acquired an MX-80 and it has had the phantom power input jack mod to 3 prong XLR. Unfortunately it did not come with any RCA jumpers. @sweetbeats do you know of a place I could buy some in the original style? Thank you!

 

[sweetbeats]

Long time reader and first time poster here. I have recently acquired an MX-80 and it has had the phantom power input jack mod to 3 prong XLR. Unfortunately it did not come with any RCA jumpers. @sweetbeats do you know of a place I could buy some in the original style? Thank you!

No. I’ve always acquired them by buying devices that have them and harvesting them. This would be a case where the device is in poor or non-functional condition and I part it out and keep the jumpers.

You can find them on eBay occasionally, but people ask stupid money for them. Just buy short RCA to RCA cables…this accomplishes the same thing.

 

[Steviek19]

No. I’ve always acquired them by buying devices that have them and harvesting them. This would be a case where the device is in poor or non-functional condition and I part it out and keep the jumpers.

You can find them on eBay occasionally, but people ask stupid money for them. Just buy short RCA to RCA cables…this accomplishes the same thing.

Ok. Gotcha. Can you recommend an external phantom power supply? Thank you

 

[sweetbeats]

Ok. Gotcha. Can you recommend an external phantom power supply? Thank you

I don’t have a specific recommendation…any single channel unit that can provide at least 100mA will do, and that’s pretty much anything you will find. It’s a very simple device. I know I have an old Rolls supply and also one from Stewart Electronics. Both high quality in their day. If I was buying a new one now I’d probably just go with what I know and get another Rolls…has the current capacity, is well built, compact, rugged, gets the job done, and is affordable:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2666983403...le5cs0tQ9u&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY