Why is the volume of other tracks so much higher then mine?

[Dicus]

Hey guys,

I hope the following question has to do with mastering. Cause all though I try I might not have totally grabbed the difference between mixing and mastering.
In the mixing process I tried to have none of my tracks clipping so all of them beneath +12 (I use reaper so I just move volume down untill none of the clipping buttons turn red). But when I uploaded this on soundcloud https://soundcloud.com/kurtrosa/demo-afterwords all other tracks are so much higher in volume.
I did not really master my track and would not really know where to start either.

Also we are only into demo's yet, no money for external mastering engineers...

All help is appreciated!

 

[Farview]

The mix is where you mix all the individual tracks together to create the stereo mix.

Mastering is (generally) when you take the finished mixes and process them to sound like they belong together on a cd.

Mastering is where the final volume is achieved. To get it loud, you will need a mastering limiter.

 

[jkuehlin]

Hey guys,

I hope the following question has to do with mastering. Cause all though I try I might not have totally grabbed the difference between mixing and mastering.
In the mixing process I tried to have none of my tracks clipping so all of them beneath +12 (I use reaper so I just move volume down untill none of the clipping buttons turn red). But when I uploaded this on soundcloud https://soundcloud.com/kurtrosa/demo-afterwords all other tracks are so much higher in volume.
I did not really master my track and would not really know where to start either.

Also we are only into demo's yet, no money for external mastering engineers...

All help is appreciated!

It partially sounds low because your overall blend is dull. Your overall rough mix needs a lot more mid-high and high information (4000 hz and up). Everything lacks detail in the upper register, and your frequencies are unevenly distributed throughout your lows and midlows.

As for your actual volume levels, if none are clipping, slam it with a limiter on the 2bus. Massive Master may punch me upside the head for suggesting that, but the quickest and easiest fix to just making everything louder is probably to use an idiot proof limiter. It only has 2 controls. Peak limiter and threshold. Start with the threshold at max, then gradually lower it until you can't stand how it sounds anymore.

 

[jkuehlin]

The mix is where you mix all the individual tracks together to create the stereo mix.

This part is correct.

Mastering is (generally) when you take the finished mixes and process them to sound like they belong together on a cd.

True...among a few other things. Mastering guys can clean up clicks, and pops, or smooth out clipping that might have been overlooked. ME's also re-balance the tonal contour of the tracks so they translate from system to system with better continuity. These days MEs run tracks through different dithering tools, and can audition and print so that the files are optimized under different codecs based on the clients needs. But I will mention that many home studios do not have accurate enough monitoring to hear a difference on this part. The last part is more for audio and media that will get disseminated over a wide rage of consumer systems. Also, a lot of the DRM encryption gets printed on the file at the mastering stage.

Mastering is where the final volume is achieved. To get it loud, you will need a mastering limiter.

To get it loud and preserve the integrity of the mix, you need some other stuff too. We can probably expound on that if the OP wants to explore it.

 

[Massive Master]

As for your actual volume levels, if none are clipping, slam it with a limiter on the 2bus. Massive Master may punch me upside the head for suggesting that, but the quickest and easiest fix to just making everything louder is probably to use an idiot proof limiter.

That's what I tell people all the time. No argument there...

Volume is the easy part -- How the mix reacts to that volume is a completely different story.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

...use an idiot proof limiter. It only has 2 controls. Peak limiter and threshold.

Those sound like two names for the same function. Are you sure you don't mean threshold and output? I have seen various names for each on simple mastering limiters, but ultimately it comes down to the same two functions.

 

[Dicus]

Thanks guys. I have no experience with limiters whatsoever but we'll look them up and fiddle around with that.

As for the overall dullness and even distribution in the lows and midlows, is that something I should fix in my mix or with mastering?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Fix as much as possible in the mix. The mixing goal is to have something that needs no further eq and stands up to a bit of limiting without falling apart. Realistically some amount of eq will be needed in mastering, but doing it on a different playback system in a different room can help highlight what needs fixing. Ideally the mastering setup is especially accurate, but that's usually not an option for the DIY guy. Your best bet is checking the results on a lot of different systems.

 

[jkuehlin]

Those sound like two names for the same function. Are you sure you don't mean threshold and output? I have seen various names for each on simple mastering limiters, but ultimately it comes down to the same two functions.

Sure. Waves calls it 'out ceiling'. Izotope calls it 'margin'. I can't even remember what Nugen calls it. Haha. Vladg (the company that makes the molot6) calls it something in Russian which I can not read, but it sounds really really good.

 

[Dicus]

How do I know if my mix 'stands up to a bit of limiting without falling apart' ?

Anyone any general guides for how much I must limit, what kind of settings to use etc. My limiters (the standard Reaper ones) have some more knobs to fiddle with and they have different names. The names are also pretty different from the names of the plug-ins some other 'how to limit' videos use.

I've heard limiting is quite similar to compression. Is it right that limiters basically lower the peaks of your track so you can put up the overal volume higher before it starts to clip?

 

[Farview]

The only way to tell if you mix falls apart under limiting is to run it through a limiter and see if it gets ruined.

I don't have reaper, so I don't know what they call their brick wall mastering limiter. Someone will know.

Yes, limiting is like compression. The type of limiting that people are talking about in mastering has very fast attack and release and a infinity to one compression ratio. In other words, nothing goes above the ceiling that you set. The mastering limiters will increase the gain, while smashing the peaks. How far you can smash the peaks before it starts sounding terrible will determine how loud you can get the mix with the limiter.

 

[mjbphotos]

How do I know if my mix 'stands up to a bit of limiting without falling apart' ?

Anyone any general guides for how much I must limit, what kind of settings to use etc. My limiters (the standard Reaper ones) have some more knobs to fiddle with and they have different names. The names are also pretty different from the names of the plug-ins some other 'how to limit' videos use.

I've heard limiting is quite similar to compression. Is it right that limiters basically lower the peaks of your track so you can put up the overal volume higher before it starts to clip?

I don't use the Reaper Limiter - not sure which ones you mean, but I d/l-ed the free Kjaerhus Classic Master Limiter (get it here: VST & DirectX Plugins | Acoustica) which is a simple 1-knob master limiter. You may find it as a good place to start.

 

[BroKen_H]

Learning how to limit is probably a good thing to know. We all play the "what if this song gets radio play?" game, I'm sure. Honestly, my mixes are not "commercial level" loud, but I get about 500 plays a week overall on all my released stuff...so they gotta turn it up a bit. Who doesn't have a volume control? I'm not at pro level mixing, so why do I need pro level mastering? Maybe it's just me...
Again, we all play the game, but in the end does it really matter? Is your music going to be professionally produced? Unless you're listening to your mixes in a playlist with commercial stuff, what difference does it make how loud it is in comparison? Just use the volume controls. It's not like your 44.1/24 wav file is going to have some huge noise floor.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I don't use the Reaper Limiter - not sure which ones you mean, but I d/l-ed the free Kjaerhus Classic Master Limiter (get it here: VST & DirectX Plugins | Acoustica) which is a simple 1-knob master limiter. You may find it as a good place to start.

Yep, a limiter meant for mastering will be much more convenient to use than a generic limiter. You can just turn it up until it sounds bad then back off a little. There's some sort of mastering tool in Reaper, but you might as well try the Kjaerhus one too.

 

[jkuehlin]

How do I know if my mix 'stands up to a bit of limiting without falling apart' ?

Anyone any general guides for how much I must limit, what kind of settings to use etc. My limiters (the standard Reaper ones) have some more knobs to fiddle with and they have different names. The names are also pretty different from the names of the plug-ins some other 'how to limit' videos use.

I've heard limiting is quite similar to compression. Is it right that limiters basically lower the peaks of your track so you can put up the overal volume higher before it starts to clip?

Good questions Discus. My advice would be to start experimenting with 2 bus compression first. Pay particular attention to the way the attack and release time subtly affect the overall feel of the mix. Continuously ask yourself, 'what is this doing? What is this adding? Do I understand the changes its making? Is it merely changing the sound of this mix or is it adding something meaningful?

Instead of boring you with what limiters do this and that differently, if you can teach yourself what you like and don't like on your 2bus, you'll understand limiters a lot better by working with compressors first. A limiter does a whole hell of a lot more than lower peaks and manipulate volume. The slope of the knee, non linear releases, harmonic distortion, the digital algorithms of the gain reduction, optical vs fet behavior...its stuff you'll want to know about down the road, but if you're just starting out, get to know your compressors really really well and you'll automatically be half way there on your understanding of limiters.

 

[Robus]

Let me go against the grain and say, no problem. The goal of mixing is to get a good mix. It's not to produce a track with a "competitive" volume level. Let that be a separate mastering process. A mistake I hear all the time with home-recorded songs on the Clinic and elsewhere is butchering otherwise good mixes by excessive boosting and limiting on the master bus. The results are often too loud, lacking in dynamics, and have a harshness in the midrange.

My mixes tend to be soft too. At this stage I'd rather let the listener turn up the volume than muck up all the work I've done in mixing by a ham-fisted attempted to "master" at the same time.

 

[Greg_L]

The goal of mixing is to get a good mix. It's not to produce a track with a "competitive" volume level.

Yes and no. Obviously creating a good mix is critical. But most people that home record wear all of the production hats, so getting familiar with basic master compression/limiting for punch and loudness isn't a bad thing. You don't have to recreate the remix of "Raw Power", but relying or demanding that people "turn it up" is myopic and defeatist. What happens next? Suppose you write something worth listening to and you shun all "mastering" processes (I use that term loosely here) to preserve the precious dynamics. The listener will have to turn his playback device back down for the next song on their playlist. How annoying is that? Annoying enough that they'll skip your song next time or remove it entirely.

The better option is to make a good mix, and learn how to massage it for some loudness without murdering it.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I don't put processing on the main bus in the mix project, but I do mix with mastering in mind. Sometimes that means limiting individual tracks so when it gets mastered to a reasonable, not ridiculous, level it holds together. If you've got something like a snare that's peaking well above the rest of the mix, even if it sounds okay, it will make it tough to get a reasonable level without other stuff being affected.

When I listen for pleasure I like to let a bunch of songs run while doing something else, like cooking dinner. Often I'll select some parameters on ReverbNation and let it fill the playlist. If one song is substantially different in volume, including louder, I just hit the skip button and go back to what I was doing.

 

[Bubba po]

The best free mastering/limiting VST I've come across so far is the Vladislav Goncharov Limiter No.6. Hunt around for the 64-bit version. Very loud, very transparent, few artifacts and the presets are great starting points. Can't recommend it highly enough.

 

[RAMI]

relying or demanding that people "turn it up" is myopic and defeatist.......The listener will have to turn his playback device back down for the next song on their playlist. How annoying is that? Annoying enough that they'll skip your song next time or remove it entirely.

Seriously.

The whole "People can just turn it up" sounds good on paper, but it's stupid. It's not so much that people can't turn it up. It's the remembering to turn it down for the next tune. I guarantee you that someone wearing headphones that cranks up your song because it's lower than every other song on his playlist will delete your song the first time he blows his ears out because the next tune was normal volume and almost destroyed his ear drums because he had to turn up your song.

There's also the people that listen to music while doing, you know, every day stuff like working out, doing the dishes, cooking, cleaning. If your song is too low while they're in the other room doing their own thing, they're going to skip or delete it. Especially after the first time they crank it up and have to sprint back to the living room and turn down the next song because it almost exploded their speakers.

Sorry, the whole "Just turn it up" just isn't realistic.