Sooooooo tired of fake drum threads.

[miroslav]

Obviously the drums will only be as good as the samples. I've been a long time user of EZDrummer and, not knowing any better for that time, learned to like the sound of the samples it provides. I'm thinking of a Christmas Upgrade to SSD4. Currently looking at videos and checking the samples out.

While SSD4 is certainly a good option...since you are already an EZD user...IMO, you should upgrade to Superior Drummer instead of SSD4.
Both have plenty of good samples and also stuff you may not like...but since you already have some EZD stuff, it will work with SD no problem. Not sure what EZD sample packs you have, but if you are just working with the default pack that comes with EZD and nothing more...then you need to explore the other packs, and like I said, with SD, you can use both EZD and SD sample packs, so it makes sense to upgrade to SD.

I have a bunch of packs, but I find the SD sample packs are just a bit more pro/polished than some of the EZD packs...though there are some in the EZD line that I like to use too. It comes down to your music styles and what YOU think makes for a decent sounding kit.

That said...I think people get too hung up on chasing after the "perfect" samples...when the real deal is in how well you sequence your drum grooves. Yu can usually find a handful of good samples in most packs, but if the groove sucks, the quality of the sample makes little difference. IMO...all you need to put together are 2-3 basic kits, and the rest is about the grooves.

 

[minerman]

The problem is that it takes for-fucking-ever to do it. It's insane. I can't believe how much time and energy it takes to make fake drums sound real, but I do understand why some people have to do it that way.

It does take forever (for me anyway) to get a midi drum track to sound half-ass real (again, to me....with help from you guys that I pester the fuck out of with 'em...), but I don't have a real kit, & couldn't play good enough (unless I practiced 24/7) anyway, so the midi drums are about the only option I have here. I'm sure some of you drummer guys here would lay down a song here/there if I asked (I'm about positive a couple/few would), but where do I go, & what do I do when that doesn't happen??? Back to the m-idiot stuff, but that's just how it is for me, & lots of others...

But the EZ Drummer shit, for me, is pretty useful for writing and arranging. I can write my drum tracks, move shit around, and play with drumming ideas without actually having to beat on the drums for hours and hours. When I'm satisfied I just sit at the kit and track it for real with real drums. At that point it's like playing a cover song and I can just breeze through it. The "writing" was already done.

That's a big plus (for me) about using fake drums, you can slide/move shit around, & change the whole song pretty much with little effort (as far as song structure goes....), & I'd never thought of it that way Greg, by the time you have everything worked out (with your workflow you described here), you know the song inside/out (which we should anyway, but just sayin'), & it basically just falls into place...Cool point man, I knew you fucked around with midi drums a little here/there, but I didn't even think of you using it this way....

The plus side to all of this, if you're one of those "if-it-sounds-good-it-is-good" mongoloids, is that your listener, if you have one, doesn't give a shit about real drums vs fake drums. They can't tell the difference. You can spend hours adjusting velocities and timing hits or leave everything stagnant on the grid. They do not know the difference. All this making fake drums sound real is a first-world home recorder issue. Only we notice or care about shit like that. And for some genres, like modern metal, drums don't sound normal at all unless they sound like a robot playing a typewriter.

I'm very, very guilty of the "do they sound real enough???" thing, probably more so than most. But, I think I do a pretty good job with my fake drums compared to some people's stuff I've heard using the same software, but, I've got some pretty good drummers giving me tips/pointers here too (when I pester the fuck out of 'em....sorry guys....)...



Mr. Clean: I second Miro's recommendation on Superior. I have SD, a bunch of SDX expansions, plus a shit-load of other drum samples (Abbey Road 60's - Modern, Studio Drummer, Steven Slate Platinum 3.5), & I like Superior better than most of 'em. They all do something a little better than the rest, & they all lack something the others have, so just finding what works for you is the biggest thing IMO, but again, I like Superior a lot, & IMO it's just easier to use for me because I'm used to the mapping of the hits, & how the whole thing works...

 

[Atkron205]

I bought an Alesis DM10 kit for my studio thinking I would use them for recording, I have played them twice, while they sound great I feel like I am cheating on my acoustic kit that I have had and played for 30 years. I just cannot do it, my drum recordings may not sound like a million bucks but I am micing them and playing them. thats good enough for me

 

[Chili]

I bought an Alesis DM10 kit for my studio thinking I would use them for recording, I have played them twice, while they sound great I feel like I am cheating on my acoustic kit that I have had and played for 30 years. I just cannot do it, my drum recordings may not sound like a million bucks but I am micing them and playing them. thats good enough for me

I'll buy em off you for $200.

 

[Atkron205]

I'll buy em off you for $200.

That's funny right there! a good price new is around 600 bucks. here is what they look like.

 

[Chili]

That's funny right there! a good price new is around 600 bucks. here is what they look like.

I know!!! That's why I said it. <sheepish grin>

I've been eyeballing the DM10 for quite a while. Just can't justify pulling the trigger yet.

 

[Atkron205]

I know!!! That's why I said it. <sheepish grin>

I've been eyeballing the DM10 for quite a while. Just can't justify pulling the trigger yet.

They sound awesome, they also have volume faders for each channel which is nice. you have 100 factory settings and 100 user settings. plus the drums are dual trigger, you can have something else on all of the rim triggers. they feel pretty good. they have real heads on them, but, they do not have the same feel as acoustics, that is my big problem. setting the crosstalk is a bitch. but once you get it set on one set, its not that bad.

 

[DM60]

That is probably the first problem with MIDI drums, people program them rather than sequence them (if you approach it as a program, then it will sound like a computer).

Using some type of drum pad(s) would help very much to get them to sound "real". At least the hits will feel real. Right now, since I am not a drummer (my hats of to those that are and I have a deep respect) I making first my feet sequence. Once I have that working, then go through the sticks parts. Two sessions, kick and HH, then snare, toms and cymbals. I think I am getting closer.

My drum controller is a Yamaha DD-65 driving SD plug in. I wouldn't recommend the DD-65, but it is still better than using mouse clicks. Faster and more fun than mouse clicking. It might not get you the real deal feel, but it will get you closer.

Here is the DM10 on Amazon for $349: Amazon.com: Buying Choices: Alesis DM6 USB Kit Five-Piece Electronic Drum Set

I think it doesn't have the sound module, which if you use a plug in, you don't want the sound module.

 

[BroKen_H]

I have that same kit, and wish I'd waited for the mesh head option. It's a $350 upgrade and I'm considering it. It is VERY difficult to do good technique on the DM10 with those heads. Rolls are twice as hard as on my Pearls. Flams, paradiddles, double taps often fail. I've played with the sensitivity, velocity, head tension. There's just no comparison. If I had room for the Pearls in here (and we didn't need them at the church), they'd be here. Thinking about rearranging and trading the digitals for the Pearls...need a few more good cymbals and voila!

 

[fat_fleet]

The problem with sampled drums in most HR-level music is that the programmer usually doesn't know what they're doing and so it's repetitive, boring shite. It can be otherwise, it just isn't very often.

I'm sincerely curious.. who are the masters of fake drums in your opinion?

I ask because it occurs to me I may not have heard the "good stuff".

 

[fat_fleet]

I'm sincerely curious.. who are the masters of fake drums in your opinion?

I ask because it occurs to me I may not have heard the "good stuff".

Actually I encourage any software drum advocates to answer this. Obviously your answer will be more convincing if your "fake drum master" isn't yourself or someone else on this board.

 

[DM60]

Actually I encourage any software drum advocates to answer this. Obviously your answer will be more convincing if your "fake drum master" isn't yourself or someone else on this board.

Have you listened to any of the MIDI loops created like in EZ/SD? They are pretty good. I am not a master, but I think to everyone's point, get the MIDI input right, and you get close since those are sampled drum sounds.

 

[fat_fleet]

Have you listened to any of the MIDI loops created like in EZ/SD? They are pretty good. I am not a master, but I think to everyone's point, get the MIDI input right, and you get close since those are sampled drum sounds.

I'm sure I've heard them, but I'm more interested in artists and "talent" right now, because I'm responding to the assertion that "it's the programmer".

 

[DM60]

I'm sure I've heard them, but I'm more interested in artists and "talent" right now, because I'm responding to the assertion that "it's the programmer".

Back to my point. If you go to the site that has demos, they give examples of how they sound with a master drummer playing the MIDI loops.

 

[fat_fleet]

But who's your favorite???

 

[DM60]

But who's your favorite???

I would first have to know what I am doing before I could know the answer to that question. I once thought The Beach Boys were great, until I learned they didn't play on their albums. Talk about fake.

 

[fat_fleet]

I would first have to know what I am doing before I could know the answer to that question.

Really it's just a simple question about your preferences, who you think is great. No right or wrong answer.. but if you're not up for it, that's fine too.

 

[famous beagle]

I would first have to know what I am doing before I could know the answer to that question. I once thought The Beach Boys were great, until I learned they didn't play on their albums. Talk about fake.

That's not true. They played a good bit on the earlier stuff and occasionally on the later stuff. There were session players too, but they did play on a lot of it as well. Not to mention the fact that they always played live, which ... IMHO, is the more important demonstration of skill anyway.

 

[Atkron205]

I have that same kit, and wish I'd waited for the mesh head option. It's a $350 upgrade and I'm considering it. It is VERY difficult to do good technique on the DM10 with those heads. Rolls are twice as hard as on my Pearls. Flams, paradiddles, double taps often fail. I've played with the sensitivity, velocity, head tension. There's just no comparison. If I had room for the Pearls in here (and we didn't need them at the church), they'd be here. Thinking about rearranging and trading the digitals for the Pearls...need a few more good cymbals and voila!

Yup. the feel is the reason I don't play mine, I just bought 4 new cymbals, the clamps I need to mount them are on back order. they shipped today! I am about to die! having the cymbals and not being able to play them sucks!

 

[Mr Clean]

I tried a DM6 and a DM10 in a shop. Wasn't a fan of either of them. I went with an older Roland kit in the end. Perfect for me.