Virtual guitar amps/analog guitar amps

[bouldersoundguy]

In the coffeehouse-to-club range of venues I see Pods etc. on occasion. A properly used small amp almost always sounds better.

 

[Greg_L]

The point I was trying to make, it has evolved over the last 50 years. Sims and in-ear buds are just an example of the evolution.

Using sims live isn't evolution. It's the opposite. A sim is an enabler. It's a crutch. Look at the reasons cited for using sims live. Cheaper. Easier. Predictable. All of that is great for your smartphone. I don't see it as good for performing music. It's inorganic and lazy. It's the halfassed way. It's not about analog vs digital for me. I don't hate sims, I don't hate technology. I hate the lazy chickenshit mindset from the folks that think using sims live is in any way better than an amp. I hate the ridiculous notion that an amp is on it's way out. It's absurd to me. Technology is good. Using technology for technology's sake is not. That's the basic argument from sim folk.

 

[onlinetom]

I've been lurking on this thread for weeks and while I'm not an internet noob and I should know better than to jump into one of these infinite loops, I'm going to make my first post here anyway.

There are two kinds of guitar amps; tube and solid state.

Sims are just solid state amps with extra knobs made out of zeros and ones.

There are great sounding tube amps and shitty sounding tube amps.

But there are no good sounding solid state amps.

This website is such a great resource and I've been coming here for few years now, getting great information, and I know I haven't earned the right to be so blunt, sorry if you live in a condo and have neighbors you like or something and can't use a real amp, I'm sure you love your moms and puppies and your use of sims doesn't make you a bad person, but it's been killing me.

You cannot get an infinite amount of tonal options from a sim because infinite implies all tones and you cannot get tube tone from zeros and ones. Tubes breath, my guitar and I interact with them. Zeros and ones are just cold, soulless bits of data.

If you've spent hundreds or thousands on computers, interfaces, mics, monitors, cables, headphones, DAWs, etc., for recording, and you're a guitar player who does not own a tube amp, seriously, sell all that shit and start over.

God damn this thread has been pissing me off.

 

[Greg_L]

Lol. Shots fired!

Registered in 2005, made his first post in 2014, and it's a truth bomb.

 

[Lt. Bob]

God damn this thread has been pissing me off.

nice first post! Welcome.

And just because I'm often a contrarian when possible I have to state that I've have had two good sounding solid state amps so it is possible even if it's rare.

I had a Dean Markley single 12 combo that was pretty damned good sounding and also a Traynor 2x12 combo that was bad ass. But the Marley blowed up real good, and I snorted the Traynor!

But yes ......most SS amps I've played weren't very good sounding.

 

[miroslav]

If you've spent hundreds or thousands on computers, interfaces, mics, monitors, cables, headphones, DAWs, etc., for recording, and you're a guitar player who does not own a tube amp, seriously, sell all that shit and start over.

God damn this thread has been pissing me off.

Had to to rep you for that.....especially this being your first post in 8 years.

 

[Greg_L]

nice first post! Welcome.

And just because I'm often a contrarian when possible I have to state that I've have had two good sounding solid state amps so it is possible even if it's rare.

I had a Dean Markley single 12 combo that was pretty damned good sounding and also a Traynor 2x12 combo that was bad ass. But the Marley blowed up real good, and I snorted the Traynor!

But yes ......most SS amps I've played weren't very good sounding.

Isn't the Jazz Chorus a SS amp? Those sound good, if you like clean clean clean.

 

[antichef]

For the record, I'm not really down on your 4x12s.I spent the best minutes of New Year's Eve about ten feet in front of one that was just ripping my face off, couldn't hear anybody else, and didn't care to.

sorry about that [OK - I know the chances that you were one of the unfortunates in front of my 4x12 on NYE are small, especially since you're saying it was good]


and for cleans, I do like some solid state stuff. I will post something in the tone thread in the guitar section.

 

[Greg_L]

If you've spent hundreds or thousands on computers, interfaces, mics, monitors, cables, headphones, DAWs, etc., for recording, and you're a guitar player who does not own a tube amp, seriously, sell all that shit and start over.

I'd like to add to this....

If you're a guitar player that DOES own a tube amp and you still decide to gig with a sim, sell that shit to someone that will use the amp and take up knitting.

 

[miroslav]

But yes ......most SS amps I've played weren't very good sounding.

Yeah...I've had my try with a couple, and they had power and the cleans were great...but they just didn't cut it with any crunch tones.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Isn't the Jazz Chorus a SS amp? Those sound good, if you like clean clean clean.

well, I suppose to me a requirement for a Solid State amp to sound good is for it to be able to get good dirty sustainy sounds.
yeah, a Jazz chorus will do clean clean but so will a Crown power amp.

My Dean Markley and the Traynor had a distortion channel that was really good sounding. I dunno why since, as onlinetom pointed out, SS rarely does that well. But they both were really good at it .... in fact I still have the Markley ...... no one can fix it but maybe someday .......

As for the jazz Chorus ...... meh, I've never personally been that fond of them. yeah the chorus sound is awesome but it's basically the same sound as putting your guitar thru your stereo monitors with stereo chorus.
I've just been pretty underwhelmed by them when I've tried one.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

And there's no way, sim or real, tubes or transistors, that you can get the sound of a guitar played loud in a room without it actually being loud in the room. The acoustic feedback between the speaker and instrument is too organic and specific to the arrangement of the parts to be simulated.

 

[onlinetom]

Really, sorry for the rant, thanks for the support. I agree some SS amps sound fine for clean playing, and I do understand that some folks don't have a choice. I even have Amplitube on my iPhone for rehearsing at 2am myself, but I don't go out live or record without my Marshalls and Mesas.

You guys here have been a huge help to me over the years, there's some smart folks here with some serious experience, I don't have a lot of recording knowledge to share, but I'll pony up some cash later to atone for the tone of my first post. Hope I wasn't too harsh.

Now I better get back to work.

 

[Greg_L]

well, I suppose to me a requirement for a Solid State amp to sound good is for it to be able to get good dirty sustainy sounds.
yeah, a Jazz chorus will do clean clean but so will a Crown power amp.

My Dean Markley and the Traynor had a distortion channel that was really good sounding. I dunno why since, as onlinetom pointed out, SS rarely does that well. But they both were really good at it .... in fact I still have the Markley ...... no one can fix it but maybe someday .......

As for the jazz Chorus ...... meh, I've never personally been that fond of them. yeah the chorus sound is awesome but it's basically the same sound as putting your guitar thru your stereo monitors with stereo chorus.
I've just been pretty underwhelmed by them when I've tried one.

I've never seriously played with a JC. I used to have a bandmate that used one with a rack processor thing. It was horrendous. But it sounded good and sparkly when it was left clean.

 

[miroslav]

And there's no way, sim or real, tubes or transistors, that you can get the sound of a guitar played loud in a room without it actually being loud in the room. The acoustic feedback between the speaker and instrument is too organic and specific to the arrangement of the parts to be simulated.

And that is the exact thing that sim users want eliminate for various reasons.....the room and the loudness.

 

[Greg_L]

And that is the exact thing that sim users want eliminate for various reasons.....the room and the loudness.

And the backache because rolling a cab around is hard work.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Really, sorry for the rant, thanks for the support. I agree some SS amps sound fine for clean playing, and I do understand that some folks don't have a choice. I even have Amplitube on my iPhone for rehearsing at 2am myself, but I don't go out live or record without my Marshalls and Mesas.

You guys here have been a huge help to me over the years, there's some smart folks here with some serious experience, I don't have a lot of recording knowledge to share, but I'll pony up some cash later to atone for the tone of my first post. Hope I wasn't too harsh.

.

no no ..... it was a great post ...... don't back-track ..... you show weakness here and the wolves gather!

 

[bouldersoundguy]

And the backache because rolling a cab around is hard work.

And having the ability to use one amp for a whole set without boring your audience.

 

[Jay Tee 4303]

It wasn't good it was great. But my girl and I were off axis and she hung back for a bit and until I got right in front of it it was phasey comb filtered mud.

Mush...and in the way of the rest of the band.

Love my Marshalls.

Loved my Fenders in the past and will again.

My Peavey was loud and put callouses on my fingers twirling knobs and never found the pocket. Same with a Roland, 'modelling' and all.

Sims...well..I'm still tracking. I'll let you know at mastering. They're good enough I haven't repatched back thru the Marshalls...yet. But I'm not hearing IT yet either, same as the Peavey.

But you won't find any 4x12s on my monitor bridge.

Ain't seen any in other studios either.

Been a looooong time since I saw one used as a PA, and it sounded like...not good.

Why is that?

How come nobody listens to playback thru 4x12 cabinets? How come nobody drives arenas with em, and how come nobody but first or last gig bands use em for mains?

Does your music deserve better than perhaps the worst transducer design array in audio history? Except maybe a column?

What does a Marshall head sound like thru an HDH stack? A phat biamped JBL two way?

I want to hear from the 4x12 koolaid drinkers that have 'tried every possibility in search of great tone'.

Surely you have attempted the obvious and can tell me where a well designed transducer 'falls acoustically short" of the modern miracle from 1964.

Grab that 50 year old miracle and pad a 57 so you can direct the thrust from a Saturn 5 thru a soda straw. Squash the life out of it to stay outta the red.

Drive the FOH or engineer gray trying to mix it with the rest, OR...I'm sorry, I'm LMAO here at the ridicule of the position...put the damn thing in a BOX to shut it up cuz its A CRITICAL PART OF THE AUDIO CHAIN...cept it sound like crap and we don't wanna listen to it...

I know...put it another room...


...on another planet...please!

But like I said...50 years of hernias and gray hair later, the techs have been making it work well enough for the audience to say 'ho-hum...WAITRESS!'

The only guys who care enough to cry about it are standing right in front of it, lost in their own tiny world, and they live it....right up till it doesn't work for anyone else...at which point...

...its somebody else's fault.

 

[miroslav]

So.....do you specifcally have a problem with 412 cabs.....or just any guitar cab design?