Fostex B16 D does not Record
- Thread starter digidoon
- Start date
Sorry to hijack your thread here, but I have a feeling you are experiencing the same issues as I am
I now see the tape I am using to record to is horribly shedded...After some minutes recording and playing The Heads and everything in the tape path is smoddered with brown/blackish goo! Yuck!
Cleaned it all off again, guess I'll have to try recording with new tape and see how that turns out
I included a picture of the heads, and the underside were I believe are the bias pots? Or am I wrong? I haven't touched them yet, but when recording on a new tape this will be my next guess if nothing comes out...
Not too many B16 users on here though...?
I noticed It's not a popular machine, many say It's inferior quality and so on...
Anyway I hope to get mine running soon!
I now see the tape I am using to record to is horribly shedded...After some minutes recording and playing The Heads and everything in the tape path is smoddered with brown/blackish goo! Yuck!
Cleaned it all off again, guess I'll have to try recording with new tape and see how that turns out
I included a picture of the heads, and the underside were I believe are the bias pots? Or am I wrong? I haven't touched them yet, but when recording on a new tape this will be my next guess if nothing comes out...
Not too many B16 users on here though...?
I noticed It's not a popular machine, many say It's inferior quality and so on...
Anyway I hope to get mine running soon!
Audiofreek
New member
Your heads don't look too bad,from what I can see,It could be a Rec/Repro relay issue.The B16 user manual is available from Fostex,just go to Support,the brochure PFDs.As per the sticky shed,here is a guide on tape restoration/baking from the sticky shed thread.
RESTORATION
When baked, the tape will expand and become loose around the hub. For this reason, use flanges to protect the tape from coming apart. Cooking temperature is between 130°F and 140°F. Tapes wound on plastic reels with small hubs should be rewound onto large reels with NAB hubs. Be careful to thread the tape around the hub without any "folds." The goal is to minimize "mechanical distortions" that can be impressed upon subsequent layers causing dropouts. The "wind" must be smooth as if played!!!
I have received several e-mails regarding "cooking time" and temperature. Provided the wind is smooth, I am not afraid to bake a quarter inch tape at 135°F — for two hours — flipping every half-hour. You will find that cooking time varies with tape width, type, brand, condition and the number of reels being baked. Ampex tape from the seventies might require twice as much time as 3M tape from the eighties (as reported by Wendy Carlos when restoring her masters from that time period). Table One below can be used as a guide.
Tape Width Baking Time varies with temperature and condition Comments
(applies to all)
1/4" 1 hour to 4 hours Position near top cover and flip every half-hour
1/2" 2 hours to 5 hours Assuming "tail-wind," play backwards after wrapping cloth over heads.
1" 3 hours to 6 hours Check for splices and shed
2" 4 hours to 8 hours Bake 1/2 hour for each 1/4-inch,
flip every 30 ~ 60 minutes.
Table One: Recommended baking Time and Tips based on temperatures ranging from 130°F to 140°F.
If you are conservative about time and temperature and the tape still sheds after baking, put it back in! Being conservative for the sake of not losing high frequencies is a bit silly. Shedding during a transfer can be annoying at best and a pain-in-the-ass if you don't discover the flaw until way after the time of transfer. If you are concerned, consider baking a tone reel or test tape for evaluation purposes. Test tapes are not immune to shedding. Based on my experience, tapes can be baked more than once. Afterwards, return the tape to its box, allowing it cool for the same amount of time it was baked as a precautionary measure. Not all machines are equally gentle, a warm tape is more likely to stretch than one at "normal" temperature.
RESTORATION
When baked, the tape will expand and become loose around the hub. For this reason, use flanges to protect the tape from coming apart. Cooking temperature is between 130°F and 140°F. Tapes wound on plastic reels with small hubs should be rewound onto large reels with NAB hubs. Be careful to thread the tape around the hub without any "folds." The goal is to minimize "mechanical distortions" that can be impressed upon subsequent layers causing dropouts. The "wind" must be smooth as if played!!!
I have received several e-mails regarding "cooking time" and temperature. Provided the wind is smooth, I am not afraid to bake a quarter inch tape at 135°F — for two hours — flipping every half-hour. You will find that cooking time varies with tape width, type, brand, condition and the number of reels being baked. Ampex tape from the seventies might require twice as much time as 3M tape from the eighties (as reported by Wendy Carlos when restoring her masters from that time period). Table One below can be used as a guide.
Tape Width Baking Time varies with temperature and condition Comments
(applies to all)
1/4" 1 hour to 4 hours Position near top cover and flip every half-hour
1/2" 2 hours to 5 hours Assuming "tail-wind," play backwards after wrapping cloth over heads.
1" 3 hours to 6 hours Check for splices and shed
2" 4 hours to 8 hours Bake 1/2 hour for each 1/4-inch,
flip every 30 ~ 60 minutes.
Table One: Recommended baking Time and Tips based on temperatures ranging from 130°F to 140°F.
If you are conservative about time and temperature and the tape still sheds after baking, put it back in! Being conservative for the sake of not losing high frequencies is a bit silly. Shedding during a transfer can be annoying at best and a pain-in-the-ass if you don't discover the flaw until way after the time of transfer. If you are concerned, consider baking a tone reel or test tape for evaluation purposes. Test tapes are not immune to shedding. Based on my experience, tapes can be baked more than once. Afterwards, return the tape to its box, allowing it cool for the same amount of time it was baked as a precautionary measure. Not all machines are equally gentle, a warm tape is more likely to stretch than one at "normal" temperature.
Thanx for all the info and reply!
I'll try the baking method for shure, though I rather would like to use new tape..
"It could be a Rec/Repro relay issue"
Where are the relays located, and Is there a solution for this? Cleaning them?
Sorry i'm a newbie in tapemachines, but I have experience with electronics and soldering boards...
I thought the shedded tape was the issue, because it smothered the heads so bad, and I figured the heads can't play or record with all the shed on them...
the play and rec buttons work fine, and the transport too, but I think the machine has been out of use for a long time, years maybe...
Should I also worry about cold solder joints? or failing components?
thanx
I'll try the baking method for shure, though I rather would like to use new tape..
"It could be a Rec/Repro relay issue"
Where are the relays located, and Is there a solution for this? Cleaning them?
Sorry i'm a newbie in tapemachines, but I have experience with electronics and soldering boards...
I thought the shedded tape was the issue, because it smothered the heads so bad, and I figured the heads can't play or record with all the shed on them...
the play and rec buttons work fine, and the transport too, but I think the machine has been out of use for a long time, years maybe...
Should I also worry about cold solder joints? or failing components?
thanx
jpmorris
Tape Wolf
I wouldn't bother baking it unless it's something precious that you want to digitize. For new recordings, just buy new tape. I'd do this as a matter of course when diagnosing a machine - take bad tape out of the equation.
(EDIT: Keep the reel, as an empty spool though. Just get the tape off it and throw that away.)
Get new tape first. Once that's out of the way, see what happens next. Relay faults tend to be per-channel - if you find that the odd channel doesn't record (or play back) that could be a relay issue, or a card seating problem or whatever.
FWIW, the relays are on the channel cards. I don't know the B16, but on TASCAM decks you generally have several of them, to switch the signal path around when you record and to mute playback etc.
The relays, being electromechanical, tend to stick as they age. Some of them you can dismantle and clean, but for the most part you'd replace them. Again, they tend to go intermittent on a per-channel basis, not all at once.
Aside from the rubber components (belts, roller) and relays, the other thing to watch out for component-wise is electrolytic capacitors, which dry out with age. Ideally you'd replace the lot, but ugh, that is so time consuming and fiddly. I still haven't fully recapped my 2-track, once I got it working 'well enough'.
If you have a dead, very noisy (or very quiet!) channel it may well be the caps, but as a rule the deck will work to some degree even with bad ones.
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Hey thanx again for the reply
I pulled out some of the channel cards, and they look so pristine and clean I can't believe there's anything wrong with them...But as of recapping the lot, I recently recapped an Akai gx 230d , but that was only a 2 channel so 16 channels of recapping looks like a lot of work..
Pinch roller is not sticky and not too shiny, so I guess that's not an issue either...?
Aren't there any recording issues if the bias levels and rec levels aren't properly configurated?
I guess I'll just wait around for new tape and go from there..
I hope the new rmgi stuff is actually new and not some overstock from years ago though!
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm thoroughly fascinated by the whole tape/reel thing, these machines are monsters, built like nothing is build anymore these days... I would love to see them coming back to life..
I used to 4track on cassette a lot before computers and I miss the working method with all the limits and hands on aproach!
I pulled out some of the channel cards, and they look so pristine and clean I can't believe there's anything wrong with them...But as of recapping the lot, I recently recapped an Akai gx 230d , but that was only a 2 channel so 16 channels of recapping looks like a lot of work..
Pinch roller is not sticky and not too shiny, so I guess that's not an issue either...?
Aren't there any recording issues if the bias levels and rec levels aren't properly configurated?
I guess I'll just wait around for new tape and go from there..
I hope the new rmgi stuff is actually new and not some overstock from years ago though!
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm thoroughly fascinated by the whole tape/reel thing, these machines are monsters, built like nothing is build anymore these days... I would love to see them coming back to life..
I used to 4track on cassette a lot before computers and I miss the working method with all the limits and hands on aproach!
jpmorris
Tape Wolf
Yes, you can fine-tune it for better results, but it should work even with the bias and record settings out.
The machine was probably set up for 456, in which case you can probably just feed it RMGI SM911 which is 99% compatible with 456.
If you want to experiment with SM900 or something, then yes, you'd probably want to calibrate it for that. However, I got decent enough results with Quantegy 499 on a TSR-8 that was set up for 456 (before I knew better).
Yes. I use digital for trying things out and for dialogue work, but for final versions of things I do as much on tape as I can. It's just more fun that way.
Does not record..
Hi Folks,
Now to get back to the not recording issue.
All Transports, Monitoring .. Funktion.
What does not work are the Track LEDs 1-16 and it does not Record.
Yes I did depress the track selector and it changed to monitoring the input as well.
Just did not record onto tape. Hmmmm
Any Help?
Hi Folks,
Now to get back to the not recording issue.
All Transports, Monitoring .. Funktion.
What does not work are the Track LEDs 1-16 and it does not Record.
Yes I did depress the track selector and it changed to monitoring the input as well.
Just did not record onto tape. Hmmmm
Any Help?
jpmorris
Tape Wolf
Can you get a photo of the heads?
Just got the new RMGI tape (SM911) and It's working!!!! Happy Happy Joy Joy
All tracks record except track 1, and Track 2 is sounding rather Dull...Guess I have to mess with the trimpots of track 2..I'm not too concerned about the record/playback levels but i am about the Eq settings of Track 2....
I guess Track 1 just is worn out...?
Anyway I still have 14 pristine tracks for 100 euros! Great !
thanx for the tips along the way!
All tracks record except track 1, and Track 2 is sounding rather Dull...Guess I have to mess with the trimpots of track 2..I'm not too concerned about the record/playback levels but i am about the Eq settings of Track 2....
I guess Track 1 just is worn out...?
Anyway I still have 14 pristine tracks for 100 euros! Great !
thanx for the tips along the way!
jpmorris
Tape Wolf
Interesting. Track 1 looks a bit weird, but it doesn't seem to have the classic "opening up" of a dead head. You're sure it's clean?
FWIW the tracks towards the edge are said to sound worse than the centre tracks for various reasons. Whether that typically affects track 2 or....
Actually this is a silly question, but you have checked that track 1 isn't poking out over the tape when it's loaded, right? If the head is really far out of alignment mechanically this can happen.
From the wear patterns in the guides it looks like it's probably okay, but it can't hurt to double-check.
FWIW the tracks towards the edge are said to sound worse than the centre tracks for various reasons. Whether that typically affects track 2 or....
Actually this is a silly question, but you have checked that track 1 isn't poking out over the tape when it's loaded, right? If the head is really far out of alignment mechanically this can happen.
From the wear patterns in the guides it looks like it's probably okay, but it can't hurt to double-check.
Pigsnoot in response to your comment about feelin inferior because you own a fostex DONT. I have had a G16 the original with dolby c, not s, since 1991. Twenty years and my only issue has been it needs a battery so now every time I power off I lose my locate points. Twenty years, if thats not reliable I dont know what is. It has served me much phenominally better than the POS Tascam msr16 which it replaced. It sounds great has features that even the high end machines cant compete with inclouding built in MTC. Dont let the tascam crowd intimidate you . Been there did that. Tascams are not better just different. Dolby c is smoother and less noticeable than dbx although it doesnt give nearly as much noise reduction. If you listen carefully you can still hear slight hiss when no music is playing. I use Ampex 499 when available and it gives another 3db headroom without re-biasing. I know not re-biasing is frowned upon but it works for me.In closing once you get the fostex up to spec you can get years of great sound out of it. Fostex was not cheap asian junk it was electronics that was way ahead of its time and when adat arrived everyone jumped on the digital bandwagon and companies making analog tape machines suffered. The tracs I do these days on computer sound no better than the ones I do on my fostex but they do somtimes lack the fostex mojo or whatever you want to call it. Im not a tech guy but If you have further question get back to me
Hey Thrust, thanx for the heads up on that! I've read some negative stuff about B16's and wondered why these machines would be inferior
(when they went for thousands of dollars back in the day...) Some say they have a muddy or boxy tone, but I love it how the lows and mids get pumped up when I record! Awesome!
But then again I hope the "pro's" keep disliking the machines, so we can buy them for a few bucks!
(when they went for thousands of dollars back in the day...) Some say they have a muddy or boxy tone, but I love it how the lows and mids get pumped up when I record! Awesome!
But then again I hope the "pro's" keep disliking the machines, so we can buy them for a few bucks!