Tube amps on a budget...

cellardweller said:
Strictly for the sake of conversation I point out that I've seen a few metal bands who play the Peavey XXX/5150/etc. by choice it would seem....

I've also heard that the Crate V series (V5 < $100) is a lot of amp for the $.
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Yeah, I'm aware of the 5150, and XXX being used. However, they are "higher end" Peavey. Out of the 2 I would recommend the XXX. Still wouldn't pick it over a Mesa in reliability, and customer service (tone, to some point, is a matter of opinion). As far as price goes, the XXX is not cheap, and at the price it goes for (around $1000 for a head, I believe), it is almost into another league of amps, and IMHO is not worth the price when you can get a lot better for just a little more. I was never impressed by the 5150, and I know a lot of guys that thought they were great at first, but dropped them after a short while.
 
toker:

First of all...nice to find that old thread of mine...did it feel good to reprint it here?

(I sure enjoyed reading it)

Second of all...as I said in my thread, I am fortunate enough to have a ton of great equipment, and I would not sell my Carr Mercury or Rambler (or my stock '56 LP Goldtop) - nor would I ask anybody else to do the same.

However, if I remember correctly, the topic of this thread is "tube amps on a budget"...right?

The OP was working with a $500 max budget, and he wanted to know what he could get for that amount of money that would be cool. This was a guy who - in reading his post - obviously was looking to make a price/value purchase...and fortunately, most of the posters in this thread - rather than turning the thread into the "listen to me talk!" kind of thread that frequently happens on forums like this - reached out to give him options that would fit the criteria that he put out there in his original post.

If you don't think that he can get a tube amp for $500 or less that is a good price/value option, then I think that it is wonderful that you shared that opinion with him. But - honestly - once you have made your point, what possible value are you giving that OP by going on and on and on with this "cheap amps are junk" thing over and over and over again?

Don't buy a cheap amp.

OK. We got it.

Oh, BTW, for anybody who might care, the old post that toker referred to about my upgrading from an ART TubePAC to a Grace/RNC setup was in response to a post about ART pre-amps. I think I was actually fair in my assessment of the unit - it worked well as my vocal processor for a while...until I had the money to upgrade my signal chain (if you want to call $750 a ton of money for a mic pre-amp and a compressor). I still use the ART TubePAC for live/jamming situations - I think that it's a pretty handy little unit...just like my Laney LC15, which - including a new speaker and retube - cost me $200, and is a DYNAMITE price/value amp (I used it this past weekend).

While I enjoy owning Carr amps and vintage Gibson guitars, I also enjoy owning Laney and Crate amps and Epiphone and Seagull guitars...and I have no problem telling friends that they don't have to spend a ton of scratch for something that works well and has good tone. My Epiphone Elite LP with Tom Holmes HB's may never get me to the same level of PAF nirvana (or cock-of-the-walk ostentation) that a real '50's burst may get me to (or even a Custom Shop/Historic burst), but I get off on the fact that I get a lot of the same tone (or in the case of the CS/Historics, better craftsmanship and tone) for a fraction of the cost.

(Oh, BTW, newbie...I've been a member here longer)

;-)
 
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I think I have posted to this thread before but the idea of a "tube" amp on a budget is somewhat problematic. Look for used gear. Classic 30, tiny terror etc. are available but most folks who own them are not likely to part with them as they are useful amps. An older Mesa studio 22 or 50 caL would be nice but both have limitations (weird switching or no switching at all). I would look for summin about 25-30 watts with option with extension cab option.
 
bebopdeluxe said:
toker:

First of all...nice to find that old thread of mine...did it feel good to reprint it here?

(I sure enjoyed reading it)

Second of all...as I said in my thread, I am fortunate enough to have a ton of great equipment, and I would not sell my Carr Mercury or Rambler (or my stock '56 LP Goldtop) - nor would I ask anybody else to do the same.

However, if I remember correctly, the topic of this thread is "tube amps on a budget"...right?

The OP was working with a $500 max budget, and he wanted to know what he could get for that amount of money that would be cool. This was a guy who - in reading his post - obviously was looking to make a price/value purchase...and fortunately, most of the posters in this thread - rather than turning the thread into the "listen to me talk!" kind of thread that frequently happens on forums like this - reached out to give him options that would fit the criteria that he put out there in his original post.

If you don't think that he can get a tube amp for $500 or less that is a good price/value option, then I think that it is wonderful that you shared that opinion with him. But - honestly - once you have made your point, what possible value are you giving that OP by going on and on and on with this "cheap amps are junk" thing over and over and over again?

Don't buy a cheap amp.

OK. We got it.

Oh, BTW, for anybody who might care, the old post that toker referred to about my upgrading from an ART TubePAC to a Grace/RNC setup was in response to a post about ART pre-amps. I think I was actually fair in my assessment of the unit - it worked well as my vocal processor for a while...until I had the money to upgrade my signal chain (if you want to call $750 a ton of money for a mic pre-amp and a compressor). I still use the ART TubePAC for live/jamming situations - I think that it's a pretty handy little unit...just like my Laney LC15, which - including a new speaker and retube - cost me $200, and is a DYNAMITE price/value amp (I used it this past weekend).

While I enjoy owning Carr amps and vintage Gibson guitars, I also enjoy owning Laney and Crate amps and Epiphone and Seagull guitars...and I have no problem telling friends that they don't have to spend a ton of scratch for something that works well and has good tone. My Epiphone Elite LP with Tom Holmes HB's may never get me to the same level of PAF nirvana (or cock-of-the-walk ostentation) that a real '50's burst may get me to (or even a Custom Shop/Historic burst), but I get off on the fact that I get a lot of the same tone (or in the case of the CS/Historics, better craftsmanship and tone) for a fraction of the cost.

(Oh, BTW, newbie...I've been a member here longer)

;-)
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Any post after my first was simply defending myself after being attacked for my view (much like you did).

Your post on the ART unit only backs up my view. Fact is, you were pleased with the ART until you could afford something better. Thus, you sacrificed tone due to budget, only to spend more later. This practice, especially when it comes to amps, is a costly one, and a wasteful one.

Again....stating that he should save up a little more, borrow, or steal for it if he had to, but spend a little more and get something that will satisfy for a long, long time is relevant, and good advice. I stand by it.

BTW...8 post? Time doesn't make you more than a newbie....activivty, and participation does.;)
 
toker:

My point - which I will make AGAIN - is not that your advice was bad (it is your opinion, and certaqinly a valid one)...it is your continuous assertions of said point over and over again in the thread.

The OP is looking for a sub-$500 tube amp. You don't think that's possible.

End.
 
ouch. ( I do not believe the pervious post headed my way) I still stand by my original post; sub 500.00 US tube amps of good quality are hard to find. Go used. Have a qualified tech look them over and use your ears. Lots of good stuff out there, just let your ear guide you.
 
bebopdeluxe said:
toker:

My point - which I will make AGAIN - is not that your advice was bad (it is your opinion, and certaqinly a valid one)...it is your continuous assertions of said point over and over again in the thread.

The OP is looking for a sub-$500 tube amp. You don't think that's possible.

End.
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And AGAIN I say that I have only posted repeatedly to defend myself, and my statement, and now...my actions. It's worth stating that your first post on this thread was an attack on me, and my view, and every post since has been an attempt in rebuttal of said view. While you were looking up "Thread Hijacker", you should have looked up "Troll".



I'm done pickin' at this bait.
 
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toker:

37.

Yup...I went back and counted...before my post, you had THIRTY-SEVEN posts that basically said the same thing (with various levels of arrogance and condescention thrown in for fun): "cheap" amps suck.

Thirty-seven posts.

The posts on pages 2 and 3 are the best...I'm sure that OP got LOTS of useful information from the forum from your posts on these pages. Based on the responses to your posts, it's nice to know that I'm not the only one who can recognize an arrogant jerk and call him on it (but what do I know...I'm just a newbie).

For the FOURTH time...

My problem with your posts was NOT your opinion - your opinion that the OP should not waste his $500 on an amp that does not meet your standards of quality and tone. That's fine - I (and others around here, from reading this thread) do not agree with that, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But when you got into your little flame war with other posters (37 posts' worth of war, BTW), exactly what value were you bringing to the poster or the thread - other than to sling smack for fun?

You are right...I am a big-time lurker that has rarely posted in recent years (you know, job...kids...stuff like that), but I chose to read the post because I am always looking out for cool, cheap gear (primarily to lay on my son and my friends). I have learned about a bunch of neat products that way (Crate PowerBlock, Studio Projects microphones...even that RNC that you thoughtfully cited in this thread). I was interested in what people are seeing out there - as well as to add my 2 cents for the Laney LC15 that I love...and then I read your posts.

You want to call me a troll? Fine.

Better a troll than a a-hole, which is how you were acting to other posters when this thread started.

And there is a TON of stuff out there in the OP's price range, if he wants to look for it. I have a Gibson Goldtone GA15-RV that has a TON of vibe going on...and you can find that for $500 used (I'll even sell it to the OP for that if he is interested and wants to PM me). I recently picked up a Crate V32 Palomino head for $225 shipped that represents great price/value. Or go to Jim Frenzel's website (www.frenzeltubeamps.com) to check out some sweet, hand-made, point-to-point constructed, made-in-the-USA tube amps for under $500 that will stand up easily to stuff costing 2-3 times more (I have one of his "super deluxe plus" amps that I paid just over the OP's price range that can hang with more than a few boutique amps).

But if you think that the OP can't get a decent tube amp for $500, that is your opinion...and I respect that.

It's the 36 other posts that I had a problem with.

I'm done.
 
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Hello all, I ahve yet to hear a Gibby Gold tone but have heard "read" good things about them. I just wanted to point out the possible good deals available for quality used tube amps out there. Be nice folks. Got to go be well all. W.
 
bebopdeluxe said:
toker:

37.

Yup...I went back and counted...before my post, you had THIRTY-SEVEN posts that basically said the same thing (with various levels of arrogance and condescention thrown in for fun): "cheap" amps suck.

Thirty-seven posts.

The posts on pages 2 and 3 are the best...I'm sure that OP got LOTS of useful information from the forum from your posts on these pages. Based on the responses to your posts, it's nice to know that I'm not the only one who can recognize an arrogant jerk and call him on it (but what do I know...I'm just a newbie).

For the FOURTH time...

My problem with your posts was NOT your opinion - your opinion that the OP should not waste his $500 on an amp that does not meet your standards of quality and tone. That's fine - I (and others around here, from reading this thread) do not agree with that, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But when you got into your little flame war with other posters (37 posts' worth of war, BTW), exactly what value were you bringing to the poster or the thread - other than to sling smack for fun?

You are right...I am a big-time lurker that has rarely posted in recent years (you know, job...kids...stuff like that), but I chose to read the post because I am always looking out for cool, cheap gear (primarily to lay on my son and my friends). I have learned about a bunch of neat products that way (Crate PowerBlock, Studio Projects microphones...even that RNC that you thoughtfully cited in this thread). I was interested in what people are seeing out there - as well as to add my 2 cents for the Laney LC15 that I love...and then I read your posts.

You want to call me a troll? Fine.

Better a troll than a a-hole, which is how you were acting to other posters when this thread started.

And there is a TON of stuff out there in the OP's price range, if he wants to look for it. I have a Gibson Goldtone GA15-RV that has a TON of vibe going on...and you can find that for $500 used (I'll even sell it to the OP for that if he is interested and wants to PM me). I recently picked up a Crate V32 Palomino head for $225 shipped that represents great price/value. Or go to Jim Frenzel's website (www.frenzeltubeamps.com) to check out some sweet, hand-made, point-to-point constructed, made-in-the-USA tube amps for under $500 that will stand up easily to stuff costing 2-3 times more (I have one of his "super deluxe plus" amps that I paid just over the OP's price range that can hang with more than a few boutique amps).

But if you think that the OP can't get a decent tube amp for $500, that is your opinion...and I respect that.

It's the 36 other posts that I had a problem with.

I'm done.
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AGAIN....all post except the first were me defending myself against assh*les like you that attacked me for my view....
....Now do like I said, and bl*w me, Troll!

BTW...you have repeated YOUR point 5 times now. So, I ask again....are you the pot, or the kettle?

Counted my post? Obsess much? What a loser. Your very first line was an attack on me, as well as each post after that. You are nothing more than a Troll looking to start shit.


BTW....it seems you have trouble taking your own advise to "move on".

Also, in the future, try not to use words you can't spell.
 
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bebopdeluxe said:
toker:

37.

Yup...I went back and counted...before my post, you had THIRTY-SEVEN posts that basically said the same thing (with various levels of arrogance and condescention thrown in for fun): "cheap" amps suck.

Thirty-seven posts.

The posts on pages 2 and 3 are the best...I'm sure that OP got LOTS of useful information from the forum from your posts on these pages. Based on the responses to your posts, it's nice to know that I'm not the only one who can recognize an arrogant jerk and call him on it (but what do I know...I'm just a newbie).

For the FOURTH time...

My problem with your posts was NOT your opinion - your opinion that the OP should not waste his $500 on an amp that does not meet your standards of quality and tone. That's fine - I (and others around here, from reading this thread) do not agree with that, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But when you got into your little flame war with other posters (37 posts' worth of war, BTW), exactly what value were you bringing to the poster or the thread - other than to sling smack for fun?

You are right...I am a big-time lurker that has rarely posted in recent years (you know, job...kids...stuff like that), but I chose to read the post because I am always looking out for cool, cheap gear (primarily to lay on my son and my friends). I have learned about a bunch of neat products that way (Crate PowerBlock, Studio Projects microphones...even that RNC that you thoughtfully cited in this thread). I was interested in what people are seeing out there - as well as to add my 2 cents for the Laney LC15 that I love...and then I read your posts.

You want to call me a troll? Fine.

Better a troll than a a-hole, which is how you were acting to other posters when this thread started.

And there is a TON of stuff out there in the OP's price range, if he wants to look for it. I have a Gibson Goldtone GA15-RV that has a TON of vibe going on...and you can find that for $500 used (I'll even sell it to the OP for that if he is interested and wants to PM me). I recently picked up a Crate V32 Palomino head for $225 shipped that represents great price/value. Or go to Jim Frenzel's website (www.frenzeltubeamps.com) to check out some sweet, hand-made, point-to-point constructed, made-in-the-USA tube amps for under $500 that will stand up easily to stuff costing 2-3 times more (I have one of his "super deluxe plus" amps that I paid just over the OP's price range that can hang with more than a few boutique amps).

But if you think that the OP can't get a decent tube amp for $500, that is your opinion...and I respect that.

It's the 36 other posts that I had a problem with.

I'm done.
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exactly the way he responded to me ...... I see he gave you neg rep too for not kissing his untalented butt ..... as if I care about that.
Thing is ...... he's a freakin' know-it-all that never acknowledges anyone elses' opinion to have any validity unless it agrees with his.
After my last useless exchange with him where he continued to show no understanding that other people know stuff besides just him .... I actually quit coming to HR altogether. But that's a bit extreme I suppose so maybe I'll try the ignore function.
I miss the rest of you guys.
 
bebopdeluxe said:
Lt. Bob:

I hear you, bro...it is a shame when the attitude of certain posters on a board can impact your participation, but that kind of thing is sadly not relegated to this board alone. And the worst part of it is - for a board like this - the quality and depth of the pool and posters that are engaged can have an impact on the value that a board can have to newbies and others who come here for valuable information. The overall quality of, say, a Philadelphia Eagles message board is not impacted by my opinion about the team being there or not, but the value of an informational forum like this can be drastically impacted if posters leave because of a harsh, confrontational vibe.

I had (and have) no problem with Toker stating his viewpoint that he considers $500 to be too low of a budget for a tube amp. However, a simple reading of the threads that he put up after his first thread told me that he was no longer interested in contributing to the thread or helping the OP - he just wanted to sling some smack...and his point to me about how he was just responding to a poster's response to his initial post was weak...he got on his Mesa high-horse and basically implied that if you can't afford a Mesa, then don't waste your money (and then he was shocked - SHOCKED, I say! - that somebody actually had the sack to call him out on his Mesa-rules-the-world attitude in his post...and he was only responding to being attacked...yeah, right...). The overall construction and tone of his post was BEGGING for a response like that...and he got it.

Mission accomplished.

It doesn't surprise me that the guy has a rep...but I see his kind on internet forums all the time...and you have two options: 1) confront the bully, or 2) leave the forum. If you leave the forum, he has won...and the newbies who come here looking for valuable information lose your input. Whether you choose to turn the klieg lights on him (until he scurries under a crack in the floorboard) or just purely ignore his attempts to bait you into an argument (which is actually the better way to combat posters like him, IMO...guys like that hate nothing more on these forums than simply being ignored), don't let him win.

Peace.
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Haven't we beat this dead horse enough yet?
 
bebopdeluxe said:
ggunn:

I don't think so...but obviously you do.

Therefore, I will remove my last post from this thread and leave the forum.

Thanks.
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I think you're being a little too sensitive. If you read the thread completely, you know that I agreed with you in the main, but IMO there comes a time when we all need to just let it go. That's just my opinion, though, and I'm not a moderator. There's no need for anyone to go off in a huff.
 
Lt. Bob said:
exactly the way he responded to me ...... I see he gave you neg rep too for not kissing his untalented butt ..... as if I care about that.
Thing is ...... he's a freakin' know-it-all that never acknowledges anyone elses' opinion to have any validity unless it agrees with his.
After my last useless exchange with him where he continued to show no understanding that other people know stuff besides just him .... I actually quit coming to HR altogether. But that's a bit extreme I suppose so maybe I'll try the ignore function.
I miss the rest of you guys.
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Show me where I responded to you like that! You lying sack of sh*t!

Wow, you know a lot about me for sharing an entire 2 threads. I was nice, and respectful to you. I even left you POSITIVE feedback, for which you said you would not leave for me, and then you viciously attacked me on another thread which left me no choice but to leave you a neg to offset the POSITIVE I had given you. Show me where I responded to you in such a way that you state. You are a liar, and full of sh*t.
YOU were the one that became disrespectful, and argumentative, and YOU attacked me because you disliked the opinion I presented. If you read this thread, and the other one that we shared, you will see that YOU started in on me, and not the other way around. I was attacked, and I defended myself. Period. I believe it is YOU that is full of yourself, and YOU have the "I am a pro, so I know better" attitude, with the "I'm willing to bet I've written more songs than you", and "You clearly have minimal live experience" remarks, when you know NOTHING about me. YOU are the one that stated "I've done this, and I've played all these gigs, and I've played with hundreds of pros" brag, brag, brag...You, sir, are a pompous ass, and now attack me again out of the blue, and without reason, or provocation. Now you call me "untalented" when, once again, you know NOTHING about me, or my accomplishments. If I ever stated my real name, and accomplishments you would be very humbled, but it's tacky...so I don't. You are nothing more than a hired gun, which has left you a miserable old assh*ole with a bad attitude toward anyone that points out the truth. GFY old man. I'm done trying to be nice to you, bitch.

If people don't want me to respond....DON'T ATTACK ME. You can disagree with an opinion without attacking the person stating it. Try it sometime, douche.

Now STFU and go play someone elses songs like the hired bitch you are, and keep telling yourself people are "oh, and ahhing" over it.

For anyone that cares, here is the thread that Bob says I "responded just like that" to him on. It's clear who attacked who, and who had the attitude.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=266484

Note the comment "I've seen you do it on thread, after thread" when I've only been on 2 threads with the guy, and very, very few threads at all on this forum.
 
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bebopdeluxe said:
ggunn:

I don't think so...but obviously you do.

Therefore, I will remove my last post from this thread and leave the forum.

Thanks.
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That's one less Troll.;)

Seriously, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. What has this guy added to this thread, other than an attack on me? His very first opening statement was an attack, and every post after that. READ the thread, and it's clear that I was attacked by 3 different people. I also agreed with people, AND listed Peavey amps that I thought to be worth looking into that are under $300. It's also worth noting that just as many agreed with me, as disagreed. This guys sole reason for posting was to bait, and Troll. Good riddance.
 
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