Which Budget Monitors Please?

With any rear-ported speakers you will need bass traps behind the speakers (on the wall you are facing when sitting at your desk). You can make 2'x4'x4" bass traps with a minimum of effort and expense - I mail ordered insulation so paid extra for shipping, if you can get it locally, you'll save money. 1x4 wood from Home Depot for the frames, a box of screws, a stapler and staples from Harbor Freight that cost me under $10, and burlap from Walmart - total $240 for 6 traps. I use eyehooks to hang them on the walls or from the ceiling - easy solution to moving, just take them down, and pull the eyebolts out of the walls.
I'm telling you as someone who 'learned the hard way' - everyone here kept saying 'acoustic treatment' and I resisted for years. Best investment I made in my recording gear, though - it really DOES make a difference. I've added 2" ceiling cloud traps, another 4" trap, and three small upper corner superchunks to my original traps.

With your current set-up - not so different from what I had 3 years ago - you really cannot make good mixes. Need to get speakers with some bass response (those AV30s cut off around 100Hz, I think) and get out of the corner. You can continue to do what I used to do - mix, burn a CD, listen on other systems, mix again ... but until you can monitor correctly, getting a good mix is a crap shoot.
 
mjbphotos said:
With any rear-ported speakers you will need bass traps behind the speakers (on the wall you are facing when sitting at your desk). You can make 2'x4'x4" bass traps with a minimum of effort and expense - I mail ordered insulation so paid extra for shipping, if you can get it locally, you'll save money. 1x4 wood from Home Depot for the frames, a box of screws, a stapler and staples from Harbor Freight that cost me under $10, and burlap from Walmart - total $240 for 6 traps. I use eyehooks to hang them on the walls or from the ceiling - easy solution to moving, just take them down, and pull the eyebolts out of the walls.
I'm telling you as someone who 'learned the hard way' - everyone here kept saying 'acoustic treatment' and I resisted for years. Best investment I made in my recording gear, though - it really DOES make a difference. I've added 2" ceiling cloud traps, another 4" trap, and three small upper corner superchunks to my original traps.

With your current set-up - not so different from what I had 3 years ago - you really cannot make good mixes. Need to get speakers with some bass response (those AV30s cut off around 100Hz, I think) and get out of the corner. You can continue to do what I used to do - mix, burn a CD, listen on other systems, mix again ... but until you can monitor correctly, getting a good mix is a crap shoot.
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My story is EXTREMELY similar. But, I agree, with a move coming on the best thing to do is wait. Figure out your room and your space when you get there, and by all means buy the new speakers (make your mind up when you know if you'll want front or rear port). Get the bottom end rolling (better freq response). Then make sure the bottom end is where it should be (room treatment).
Happy Recording!
 
Ok final say on this. I have taken into account a lot of the feedback about room treatment and how easy/inexpensive it can be but I think that maybe I have led you all on a merry chase as I really don't get that in-depth with making my music. As I have said before, realistically I am the only person who really listens to my music and anyone else (a couple of people) who I share my music with have no idea about music or how it's made and therefore have no real understanding or appreciation for whether a mix sounds good or not. I don't spend a massive amount of time on it and just make music as a hobby because I enjoy it. I feel I am in danger of getting too obsessed about what my room is like, if I have the right speakers etc etc and it will all be a bit of a waste as at the end of the day, it's only me who listens to the music.

I do nearly all my mixing and recording using my headphones and they have served me pretty well. I just wanted some better speakers than my current ones for the odd occasion when I don't want to listen on headphones or want to play something to a friend. I think if I spent hours and hours completely focussed on making music and if I even shared that music with anyone else and had some kind of captive audience, then it would definitely be worth going the extra mile. As it is, I think I will get another pair of speakers (the JBL LSR305's are my current favourites) and then when I move I may look into room treatment but I think I need to be honest with myself and admit that I don't spend huge amounts of time making music or do anything that would warrant trying to turn my little corner of the living room into a studio as it's never going to be that.

Anyway, shameless plug, here is my Soundcloud page showing examples of the kind of music I make and what some of my mixes sound like: https://soundcloud.com/smudged-moon I have no doubt there will be problems with them but I don't think I was ever going to get professional-sounding results and I know that the kind of music I make doesn't really lend itself to that approach anyway. Sorry again for kind of wasting everyone's time but I do appreciate all the suggestions and advice and if anything it has helped to narrow down what kind of speakers I want to get.
 
I agree with Mike B in that room treatment is probably the best thing you can do to improve your mixes. Your music will sound better to you in your studio after you treat your room but I know you're resisting doing it and that's fine. I'm pretty sure that if you do treat your room you'll be glad you did. Anyone here mention Equator D5 or D8? Equator D5 Coaxial Studio Monitors for Home or Studio. Active Nearfield Monitors.
They won't be available again until about the end of June but they might be worth the wait. It will give you time to treat your room. :)
 
I have a little advice for you and maybe this has already been addressed. For one thing: monitoring at very low levels is the "correct" way to monitor........not very sexy but in the end you'll get better mixes that sound good on all systems. You know the speakers you own right.?..........you understand how they transfer to other systems.........cd players, computer speakers, car stereos, etc. I would use that information to an advantage until you have a bit more money to spend on monitors. You are changing systems and spaces so it really doesn't make sense to buy another cheap set of monitors. Many great albums and hit songs were mixed on Yamaha NS-10s. Also,.........are you referencing your music with commercial music that you like or are trying to emulate? If you are you know how to mix your stuff so that it transfers well to other systems.......it's really one step you can't afford to skip......if you want really good mixes and if you want to learn how it's done. One more thing you might consider is ready a great book by Mike Senior "Mixing Secrets" for the small studio. It's a great education and you'll be armed with better information to make decisions on equipment purchases. Good luck.
 
Well I know everyone's kind of really pushing the whole "treat your room first" argument and that may be true but it's just not practical for me. I am using my living room and so there is nowhere else for me to move my desk and computer and equipment to as literally next to the desk are my hi fi and then my TV and opposite those, my sofa and coffee table. As there is quite a bit of furniture in my room, I'm not sure how much of a problem my room actually has with sound, it's not echoey and speakers generally sound fine (but I'm sure everyone will now tell me I'm wrong). I don't record vocals or guitars, just synths really. As I sit literally less than 2ft from the monitors, I don't need to have the sound loud in order to hear it and again it doesn't matter too much about what my mixes sound like on other systems as I'm the only one listening to them lol. I am not trying to compare my music to anything commercial really as what I make doesn't fit into a commercial category and by the very nature of some of the music I make, if anything I don't want it to sound perfect or high quality. I purely just wanted to be able to hear more of the low frequencies and more of what I hear on my headphones as the mix sounds better with my M50's than on my AV30's.

I think perhaps my circumstances and way of making music are a lot different from most people here and some of the things that matter to you or that you consider to be good practice to make great sounding recordings don't really apply to me.

As for the book, I'll look into it but I have bought a lot of books like that in the past and been put off by them as a lot of the information uses live recording of guitars and vocals and drums or bands in general and that's not what I do. I know many of the overall mixing and recording techniques will apply for most genre's of music and in general practice but they don't seem relevant to me, either that of they assume you already know certain things which can prove to be a stumbling block to understanding some of the concepts of the book. I'm sure I am making very broad generalisations but that's just been my experience.

Sorry I know I sound very negative or like I am rejecting all the advice you're giving but I'm just trying to be practical and hope you'll understand that treating my room isn't an option as it's either going to make little difference due to me being stuck in the corner of the room and as I can't play the music loud enough to get the benefit of the acoustic treatment (due to neighbours). It is something that I will consider for my future home but again, realistically I am going to be in very similar accommodation and so if I end up sharing the corner of my living room again, then I will end up in the same situation. I am probably talking rubbish and maybe acoustic treatment is the answer to my problems but I can't just stick some panels on the wall behind the computer and monitors, even if they do sort out the acoustics because the rest of the wall will look ridiculous without them and for what I do and how little my music will get played on other systems, it seems like an over-engineered answer to the problem.

Sorry I don't mean to get defensive or come off as a dick or ungrateful for the help, I'm just trying to show the reality of my situation and the real practicalities of what I can and can't do in my home. It would be different if I were using my bedroom or somewhere that wasn't used very often other than for sleeping and using the computer, then the room shape would be better suited and I would be able to position my desk etc in the optimum spot and then acoustically treat the room but that's not the case.

In other news, I have ordered a Korg MS 20 Mini which I'm hoping will console me for having a terrible setup lol.
 
For monitors, I use Yamaha NS-10s powered by a 1970s crown 150. They sound terrible but translate to everything else. I have a small JBL subwoofer that only produces sounds below 80 Hz. If you can get these puppies to sound good then everything else sounds great. To check the mixes I also use a set of Tannoy 6Ds in the control room. In one of the larger studios I use a 30 yr old set of large field Wharfdale speakers powered by a crown 150 amplifier. This makes it that I can check the mixes in different rooms with large groups of people if needed. Usually the band.
 
Make a plan and stick to your guns. I'm not going to tell you you're doing it wrong, man! Sounds like you have very sound reasons for your path. The most important thing is to have fun.
Happy Recording! :D
 
AfxTwn said:
Well I know everyone's kind of really pushing the whole "treat your room first" argument and that may be true but it's just not practical for me. I am using my living room and so there is nowhere else for me to move my desk and computer and equipment to as literally next to the desk are my hi fi and then my TV and opposite those, my sofa and coffee table. As there is quite a bit of furniture in my room, I'm not sure how much of a problem my room actually has with sound, it's not echoey and speakers generally sound fine (but I'm sure everyone will now tell me I'm wrong). I don't record vocals or guitars, just synths really. As I sit literally less than 2ft from the monitors, I don't need to have the sound loud in order to hear it and again it doesn't matter too much about what my mixes sound like on other systems as I'm the only one listening to them lol. I am not trying to compare my music to anything commercial really as what I make doesn't fit into a commercial category and by the very nature of some of the music I make, if anything I don't want it to sound perfect or high quality. I purely just wanted to be able to hear more of the low frequencies and more of what I hear on my headphones as the mix sounds better with my M50's than on my AV30's.

I think perhaps my circumstances and way of making music are a lot different from most people here and some of the things that matter to you or that you consider to be good practice to make great sounding recordings don't really apply to me.

As for the book, I'll look into it but I have bought a lot of books like that in the past and been put off by them as a lot of the information uses live recording of guitars and vocals and drums or bands in general and that's not what I do. I know many of the overall mixing and recording techniques will apply for most genre's of music and in general practice but they don't seem relevant to me, either that of they assume you already know certain things which can prove to be a stumbling block to understanding some of the concepts of the book. I'm sure I am making very broad generalisations but that's just been my experience.

Sorry I know I sound very negative or like I am rejecting all the advice you're giving but I'm just trying to be practical and hope you'll understand that treating my room isn't an option as it's either going to make little difference due to me being stuck in the corner of the room and as I can't play the music loud enough to get the benefit of the acoustic treatment (due to neighbours). It is something that I will consider for my future home but again, realistically I am going to be in very similar accommodation and so if I end up sharing the corner of my living room again, then I will end up in the same situation. I am probably talking rubbish and maybe acoustic treatment is the answer to my problems but I can't just stick some panels on the wall behind the computer and monitors, even if they do sort out the acoustics because the rest of the wall will look ridiculous without them and for what I do and how little my music will get played on other systems, it seems like an over-engineered answer to the problem.

Sorry I don't mean to get defensive or come off as a dick or ungrateful for the help, I'm just trying to show the reality of my situation and the real practicalities of what I can and can't do in my home. It would be different if I were using my bedroom or somewhere that wasn't used very often other than for sleeping and using the computer, then the room shape would be better suited and I would be able to position my desk etc in the optimum spot and then acoustically treat the room but that's not the case.

In other news, I have ordered a Korg MS 20 Mini which I'm hoping will console me for having a terrible setup lol.
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I had a listen to your stuff on sound cloud and I understand where you're coming from as far as your monitor needs. I think you have a clear vision of what is important to you. Like BroKen_H said, "Have Fun" I've been wanting a hardware synth for quite a while and the Korg MS20 is on my short list. I'm looking forward to hearing some of the soundscapes you get from it.
 
Thanks very much for listening, I was just trying to give people an idea of what kind of music I make and what the mixes sound like from my current setup in relation to any future plans and hardware upgrades. I do have a lot of fun making music and I think I was in danger of becoming more concerned with getting everything right and making the right choices than just getting on with it and choosing what was right for me. It's very easy to become overwhelmed with choice and I'm very guilty of looking at other people's setups and thinking mine is wrong. As for the synths etc, it's took me a long time to get the small collection I have now (I won't bore you with a massive list) but I love the tactile feel of them and the immediacy of using them (even though I don't know what I'm doing lol). I will likely get more and more (the Arturia Micro/Mini-Brutes being next on my list) and I'd love to one day get a modular synth rack with loads of modules but I'm afraid the lack of space is a big issue (as well as funds).

Anyway, I have drifted away from the main thread topic. I have noted everyone's suggestions and will be looking into them further, I think I will definitely be getting some new speakers as I know I've outgrown the AV30's (maybe a 2.1 setup is the answer?) and so it's been great taking [art in this discussion and it's helped to narrow my focus and give me a better understanding of my genuine needs over my wants. So much of collecting gear tends to be the other way around but as you and Broken have pointed out, sod it as long as I'm having fun!!
 
AfxTwn said:
Thanks very much for listening, I was just trying to give people an idea of what kind of music I make and what the mixes sound like from my current setup in relation to any future plans and hardware upgrades. I do have a lot of fun making music and I think I was in danger of becoming more concerned with getting everything right and making the right choices than just getting on with it and choosing what was right for me. It's very easy to become overwhelmed with choice and I'm very guilty of looking at other people's setups and thinking mine is wrong. As for the synths etc, it's took me a long time to get the small collection I have now (I won't bore you with a massive list) but I love the tactile feel of them and the immediacy of using them (even though I don't know what I'm doing lol). I will likely get more and more (the Arturia Micro/Mini-Brutes being next on my list) and I'd love to one day get a modular synth rack with loads of modules but I'm afraid the lack of space is a big issue (as well as funds).

Anyway, I have drifted away from the main thread topic. I have noted everyone's suggestions and will be looking into them further, I think I will definitely be getting some new speakers as I know I've outgrown the AV30's (maybe a 2.1 setup is the answer?) and so it's been great taking [art in this discussion and it's helped to narrow my focus and give me a better understanding of my genuine needs over my wants. So much of collecting gear tends to be the other way around but as you and Broken have pointed out, sod it as long as I'm having fun!!
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If you're the only one listening to your music, and you mostly use headphones, then why are you bothering to get other monitors and putting your music on soundcloud? :confused:
I listened to a little bit of the songs you've got there - the bass is really out of control on most of them.
 
Much better setup is needed.

PC ok on floor. Monitors should be off the desk. You can build absorption panels that you can take with you.

Sorry for short reply. I have a session starting now.
 
mjbphotos said:
If you're the only one listening to your music, and you mostly use headphones, then why are you bothering to get other monitors and putting your music on soundcloud? :confused:
I listened to a little bit of the songs you've got there - the bass is really out of control on most of them.
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Hi, sorry to resurrect this long thread after such a long time but things have changed a bit for me over the past couple of months. In turns out I won't be moving now after all which is better because I now know exactly where I'll be placing things in my room. Before I get on to talking about gear and stuff, your last comment MJB really made me think why indeed was I bothering getting monitors or uploading music or even making music at all?

I think in my case, the problems with the mixes are through lack of knowledge or experience about making music in general. I should say the reason for this and the reason for why I am finding it so hard choosing equipment and learning things is because I have autism and so I am very restricted in the ways I can learn about music or how I can get equipment. I don't think in the same way as most people and I probably don't make make music in the same way either. I am the main person who hears my music and a few close friends also sometimes hear it but I don't want to become famous or perform live as that would be way too stressful for me. I just enjoy listening to music and making music and wanted to know how to do it. Because of the problems I have, I don't feel comfortable going to college or somewhere to learn things there and as most of the people I know don't really know anything about music, I am left on my own to figure it out for myself.

I know you probably didn't mean any harm by what you said MJB but I don't think there has to be a reason for someone making music other than to just enjoy it and hear different sounds. I know the bass is out of control on a lot of what I make, sometimes that's on purpose because I like that sound or I am trying to make it sound a certain way, other times it's because I don't know how to stop that or the techniques used to make the music sound a certain way.

I think a lot of what I listen to and what I try to make is quite experimental or alternative and so doesn't really fit into a standardised 4/4 beat or has a very loose and lo-fi feel to it. I would really like to learn more but reading lots and lots of text generally makes me feel more confused as I am much more of a visual learner. Perhaps rather than getting new monitors and stuff, I need to figure out a way to learn certain production and mixing techniques first but that is easier said than done in my case. I have seen a lot of YouTube video tutorials but they all end up making the same electronic loops or dance music that sound the same to me but maybe that's what I need to learn in order to be able to make music properly.

Anyway, getting back to the monitors, I am going to get some absorption panels and some M-Audio BX5 carbon speakers I think. I have ordered a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 audio interface and some Audio Technica ATH-M70x headphones. I am thinking about getting Ableton and maybe doing one of the online courses to learn it as I'm hoping that will teach me about EQing, compression, when to add effects, MIDI and everything else I need to understand. I think it will be better for me to learn by doing it and copying the videos rather than reading manuals or lots of text.

Sorry again for bringing this thread back but I thought it was good to do an update and to try to explain the reasons for things.
 
Didn't mean to offend you - but the only purpose in putting music up on places like soundcloud is for others to listen to them.
Headphones and monitors that lack low end (and in untrated rooms) will not let you balance the frequcny range accurately. Of cours eif you want heavy boomy bass in a song, that's what you should mix for - but dont' expect others to understand that's what you want.
Good luck, sounds like you're getting new equipment which should help you.
 
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