How to get more volume?

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In terms of mixing I find that there are several "pitfalls" that tend to cause weak mixes. One is to have the wrong volume/compression ratio and too loud volume on heavy duty sound sources such as vocals. For me it has varied what ratio I find most optimal, but currently I find vocals should be heavily limited and then lowered in volume as much as possible. What seems to happen when vocals are left too dynamic in the mix is that you automatically compensate with volume boost, this in turn becomes very expensive on the mix signal, so that you don't get enough signal available to all other sound sources in the mix, especially not in the chorus. To avoid this situation I usually start mixing without vocals.

Early on I mix the kick drum, snare and bass as if they were the only sound sources in the mix. I want these to be fat, big, powerful but absolutely not too "heavy". A lot of focus on compression and EQ and using the right speakers for the job. Once this group is balanced I add vocals into the mix, the focus is on making the vocals force the low end mix signal down as little as possible, so that as much of the low end fatness as possible is preserved and so that I have some room left for other sound sources too, typically that means peak limiting rather than rms limiting. Once these two are unified, then in order to fit the other sound sources into the mix, I lower both the vocal mix and the low end mix in equal doses, however as little as possible.

Once all of these sound sources have been packaged into the mix signal like this, I usually end up with a very fat mix. If I do it some other way, let's say I don't add any compression and start with vocals instead and do free mixing, what happens is that the mix signal is lost to various dynamic sound sources that are set loud in the mix, causing a situation when it's dynamic but very weak and non-powerful and it does not sound good, or it can sound good but not powerful and great.

During mastering I want to be able to kind of take the mix and just enlarge it as a rectangle, with mixes that are very unbalanced in how they consume the mix signal (wrong types of compression/limiting on different sound sources), it becomes tricky to enlarge the mix as a rectangle, what you instead tend to end up with at higher rms levels is an overall "hard" and unbalanced mix that lacks good stereo qualities. Once I have succeeded with the mix balance, in mastering I force the loudness to "meaty" levels. Early on I don't care about clipping, all I care about is finding that meaty spot where the whole mix comes alive in a really major way. That's the most important thing, that's where it needs to be. Usually this means a lot of gaining and re-balancing in iterations until the mix is "meaty". Once it sits there, I leave it there even when I have clipping issues in the mix. The clipping I take care of later. I could have chosen a different route here too, for instance focused on the clipping. That gives you a mix that might be loud but not meaty.

I find it's much easier to remove clipping noise than to get stuck with a mix signal that simply always lacks meat. How I work with this in mastering is that I lock down the mix down to song sections and make each song section have that meat, in other words I don't focus on being aware of what should happen about the volume at various song parts, such as chorus being louder than verse or focus on the loudness of the mix as a whole, instead I make each song section having its own "best meat". Once this is done, then I automate the signal level based on the goals of how it should progress. But this makes the overall meat about the mix as a whole come up to a commercial level.
 
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That's pretty fucking lame of you, seeing how you don't ever post anything of your music to back up all your talk and your "techniques" on mixing/mastering. :rolleyes:

No he's right on schedule. That's what trolls and frauds do. They have no skin in the game.
 
Riiiiiiight. Says the troll fake that has no mixes. Fraud ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have tons of mixes, did one today... I'm very limited about what I can share due to copyright, most of the stuff I deal with is in a commercial context.

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That's pretty fucking lame of you, seeing how you don't ever post anything of your music to back up all your talk and your "techniques" on mixing/mastering. :rolleyes:

Please read my post to Greg_L above.
 
I just listened to your stuff. Fraud ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Your reported post is now not even considered due to you inflating the situation.

I suggest you be more clear and precise in your wording because you come across as if you know everything, yet nobody here seems to be able to understand what it is you are saying. I understand that being from Sweden that your English may not be so good. But I find it hard to believe that you have learned all of these secrets and have a greater grasp on music production than those here who have been doing it for decades, in just a year and a half since you joined this forum.

Here is your initial post to HR:
 

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Your reported post is now not even considered due to you inflating the situation.

I suggest you be more clear and precise in your wording because you come across as if you know everything, yet nobody here seems to be able to understand what it is you are saying. I understand that being from Sweden that your English may not be so good. But I find it hard to believe that you have learned all of these secrets and have a greater grasp on music production than those here who have been doing it for decades, in just a year and a half since you joined this forum.

Here is your initial post to HR:

If you find what I write has an undesired impact, please counter that with objective arguments or just share your experiences. I don't ask for you to show any content to back up your thoughts posted in the threads, I read your stuff and can use common sense and experience to validate what it means. The intension of my posts is to help OP primarily, but then of course to discuss. Is not that the point of being here, to share knowledge and discuss?!

I don't know a single engineer that has a simple short answer to OP's question and when so it's usually a very rough over simplification. I have laid out a rough formula for some key elements to it, but that stuff is deep and it takes practice to make great real world use of it.

I know many recordings where the engineer made it loud and clear and the same recording engineered by someone else made it weak and unclear. Maybe some think it is all done in recording, those lack experience.

I do find that in order to end up with a good loud signal, you do need to use the right gear and technique to do it. You can peak limit the life out of it or you can go deeply into the economics of the mix signal, how to target that with gear and technique in order to end up with a great sound. This is not something you learn over night, it takes many mixes before you learn how it works and what you need to do.
 
I have tons of mixes, did one today... I'm very limited about what I can share due to copyright, most of the stuff I deal with is in a commercial context.

That's just an excuse.
Posting clips in NO WAY threatens anyone's copyright. In fact, by posting, you in effect help establish ownership with time stamp. If it's not your music, you can state who the copyright belongs to, and that too further establishes ownership.
Besides, people get too worked up about it....I doubt anyone will steal the music once it's posted on an open forum.

Also, as Jimmy pointed out, I find it hard to believe that you went from a kind of "I'm new" attitude here on a home rec forum just a year ago, all the way to now doing some involved commercial stuff that has such legal constraints that it prevents you from posting.
You sound like the guy who will tell everyone he's working on a major project....but can't reveal anything because it's a secret project.

Anyway....the forums are full of guys "working on music"....who never post up anything.
Do we really care about your music....?
No, not really, it's just that in order to criticize someone else's music when you're hanging on a home rec site, it's only fair play that you post some too....otherwise, STFU.
 
Lol. I'm like the pied piper for the perpetually butthurt.

Who is UVBlues...and where did he come from all of a sudden in this thread??? :D

Is he related to MusicWater......?....seeing how their HR join date is the same - Mar 2013.
 
There are a lot of legit professional mastering guys, mixing guys, engineers, small studio owners, etc, right here at this site that provide links and proof to what they do. It's there. We can see it, hear it. These are legit members that don't hide behind lies and ambiguity. They don't just talk the talk, they walk the walk. Only frauds make up lies and excuses.

---------- Update ----------

Who is UVBlues...and where did he come from all of a sudden in this thread??? :D

Is he related to MusicWater......?....seeing how their HR join date is the same - Mar 2013.

He's probably some guy that got butthurt a while back or they're probably all the same troll.
 
That's just an excuse.
Posting clips in NO WAY heathens anyone's copyright. In fact, by posting, you in effect help establish ownership with time stamp. If it's not your music, you can state who the copyright belongs to, and that too further establishes ownership.
Besides, people get too worked up about it....I doubt anyone will steal the music once it's posted on an open forum.

Also, as Jimmy pointed out, I find it hard to believe that you went from a kind of "I'm new" attitude here on a home rec forum just a year ago, all the way to now doing some involved commercial stuff that has such legal constraints that it prevents you from posting.
You sound like the guy who will tell everyone he's working on a major project....but can't reveal anything because it's a secret project.

Anyway....the forums are full of guys "working on music"....who never post up anything.
Do we really care about you rmusic....?
No, not really, it's just that in order to criticize someone else's music when you're hanging on a home rec site, it's only fair play that you post some too....otherwise, STFU.

Do you think you can get a loud clear signal (commercial level) without knowing the economics of the mix signal and without using compressor skills? If you do, please tell me how, else don't jump on me, because you don't have a fair reason to.
 
There are a lot of legit professional mastering guys, mixing guys, engineers, small studio owners, etc, right here at this site that provide links and proof to what they do. It's there. We can see it, hear it. These are legit members that don't hide behind lies and ambiguity. They don't just talk the talk, they walk the walk. Only frauds make up lies and excuses.

---------- Update ----------



He's probably some guy that got butthurt a while back or they're probably all the same troll.

The speculation is confusing you and others, it's better to keep that speculation private and best not to do it at all. What you should be doing is to help OP by sharing your knowledge and experience and make objective arguments about what is said in the discussion. That's the point, the point is not to be a master in who is who on the Internet. In this way you will not confuse others. Also consider the value of learning not to judge others.
 
The speculation is confusing you and others, it's better to keep that speculation private and best not to do it at all. What you should be doing is to help OP by sharing your knowledge and experience and make objective arguments about what is said in the discussion. That's the point, the point is not to be a master in who is who on the Internet. In this way you will not confuse others. Also consider the value of learning not to judge others.
I'm not confused at all. You want your rambling nonsense to be taken seriously? Just back it up. It's simple. Most people with legit intentions are happy to provide examples of their work. The information at a site like this is only as good as the person giving it. You talking nonsense in circles makes you look foolish, but you could potentially be taken seriously if there was a reason to do so. Maybe you're just quirky. Maybe you're grasp of english is poor. Or maybe you're just another internet doofus talking out of his ass because it riles people up.
 
Do you think you can get a loud clear signal (commercial level) without knowing the economics of the mix signal and without using compressor skills? If you do, please tell me how, else don't jump on me, because you don't have a fair reason to.

I'm going to jump in here.

Of course not. What the hell are you asking?

The point is, you retaliated to a member calling you out as fraudulent because you do not back up anything you say (which by the way is quite hard to understand due to the language thing) with productions you have worked on.

Most everyone that frequents this forum is honest and willing to show their stuff. Whether good or bad, we share and help each other to grow.

The combination of your not being easy to understand and the fact that you don't post anything you have done.....well figure out what people will think.

Post examples or stop 'acting' like you are a pro. All will be forgiven if you just stop trying to be 'almighty'. Read the scripture bro.
 
Do you think you can get a loud clear signal (commercial level) without knowing the economics of the mix signal and without using compressor skills? If you do, please tell me how, else don't jump on me, because you don't have a fair reason to.

Huh?

What the heck does that ^^^^^ have anything to do with my commments that you shouldn't slam someone's music on a home rec forum if you don't have the balls to post your own....?

Otherwise, to answer your question....sure, I can get loud, clear mixes with only some use of limiting/compression at the final mastering stage. I actually use very little compression overall, compared to what I see these days, and I mainly use compression for color.....not for major signal control.

Show me what you mean.....kinda hard to know without hearing it.
 
Huh?

What the heck does that ^^^^^ have anything to do with my commments that you shouldn't slam someone's music on a home rec forum if you don't have the balls to post your own....?
That's what they always do. If I had a dollar for every time some butthurt moron took a shot at my music I'd buy this site and turn into a food truck.
 
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