Hooking up effects I need some advice

Yes.

And no apologies of any kind needed.

The M-106, and pretty much any multiple buss mixer (the M-1508 is another good small mixer...<$100), can have multiple stuff hooked up all the time and you use the source and routing controls on the control surface to choose what you want to listen to, how you want to mix it, and where you want to send it to.

Using the M-106 as an example, you can have 6 sources connected to the main inputs of each channel (this could be a micor a line level source, or even a passive pickup guitar/bass), AND 6 additional line inputs...oh...and two turntables. So that's 12 mono sources hooked up at once plus the two turntables. Look at a picture of an M-106...just do a google image search. You see those toggle switches above the trim knobs? That's where you select which of the two inputs on each channel you want to listen to on that channel. Now look at the AUX send knob...see that LINE switch? You can have the mic selected as the channel source, but have the *other* LINE input as the source for the AUX buss on that channel. Who cares? Well it's really handy when overdubbing like you're doing. The outputs of your 234 would be hooked up to the LINE inputs on channels 1-4. You could have your vocal on the mic input of channel 1, your guitar hooked up to the main input of channel 2. You would PAN both channels hard R, and depress the 3-4 assign switch on those two channels. Set the trim controls for maximum level without any clipping, and then set the faders to achieve your mix. The inputs of the 234 would be connected to the PGM group 1-4 outputs of the M-106. Channels 1 and 2 of the mixer are grouped to PGM group 4, which will feed track 4 on the 234. Depress the LINE switches on the AUX busses on channels 1, 2 and 3 of the M-106. This sends the signal from tape tracks 1, 2 and 3 to the AUX buss. Select the 3-4 group over in the monitor section on the right to monitor your vocal and guitar mix, and also select the AUX buss...you'll be able to hear tracks 1, 2 and 3 while you overdub. Notice you haven't even touched channels 4, 5 and 6 of the mixer. You can have stuff hooked up sort of semi permanently, and each channel has the ability to select which source you want to listen to on the channel with the source select switch, and then it can go to groups 1-4...set the assign switches and PAN controls to determine where your source goes...all with buttons and switches rather than re-patching.

That's probably a little overwhelming. Some times I wish when this kind of stuff comes up I could just sit down at a table with a beer and show you. So I apologize for all the wordiness, but the above scenario is basically how a typical recording mixer is setup, so your inputs that are connected to each channel can be output to any or all of the groups, and you can monitor tape returns along with your sources while overdubbing. Then when it's time for mixdown you would set channels 1-4 to LINE and tape tracks 1-4 would be on mixer channels 1-4...set eq and effect levels and faders and pans to taste. And you haven't had to re-patch a thing.
 
Awesome!!! I think I get the basic idea of it (and I am beginning to see where mine is lacking). I'll look it over today and probably have more questions for you tonight.

I couldn't find a M-106 manual, but I did find a M-208 manual I think I can use as a reference to follow this along.

I'd like to be able to understand this Right now, so I can understand what I'm doing when we get off these wheels.
 
Alright, I am not understanding PGM groups at all.... I've looked at the explanations on this site and others and for some reason it's just not sinking in. I understand it as a sort of sub mixer right??? and it has something to do with panning hard right or left, but my brain is feeling like it's 1981 again just before I put my headphones on to "Dark Side of the Moon"....

anyone want to take a shot at splaining????
 
Alright, I am not understanding PGM groups at all.... I've looked at the explanations on this site and others and for some reason it's just not sinking in. I understand it as a sort of sub mixer right??? and it has something to do with panning hard right or left, but my brain is feeling like it's 1981 again just before I put my headphones on to "Dark Side of the Moon"....

anyone want to take a shot at splaining????

They're simply another group of outputs to which you can route a signal.

The signal comes into the channel --- whether from a mic/line input or a tape playback --- and then it goes through the insert/EQ/FX sends/etc and pan. If you have sub groups (or PGM groups), you can send it to those as well as, or instead of, the main mix. Odd number groups are left and even are right.

So if you have, say, four sub groups, you may have two buttons on each channel in addition to the main mix:

1/2
3/4

If you push the 1/2 button and have the pan knob dead center, it will go to PGM group 1 and 2 outputs equally.

If you push the 1/2 button and have the pan knob hard left, it will go to PGM group 1 only.

If you push the 3/4 button (and not the 1/2) and have the pan knob hard right, it will go to PGM group 4 only.

If you push both the 1/2 and 3/4 buttons and pan hard right, it will go to both PGM groups 2 and 4 only.

By using these PGM groups on a channel - and not the main mix - you're able to route them to your tape machine. Then when your playback from your tape machine comes back into the mixer and gets assigned to the main mix, you don't have a feedback loop.

Does that help at all?
 
alright...... so if you had a 4 channel mixer with 4 PGM (or sub) groups, you could record on eight seperate channels without repatching right?

.....and what does PGM stand for?
 
alright...... so if you had a 4 channel mixer with 4 PGM (or sub) groups, you could record on eight seperate channels without repatching right?

.....and what does PGM stand for?

PGM stands for program; program group...subgroup.

A 4 channel mixer with 4 program groups would have 4 inputs, and 4 output busses, the 4 groups. It's not 4 + 4, it's 4 inputs that can be assigned to any or all of the 4 outputs in any combination...like an infinitely variable patchbay.

Think of your 244...it had 4 inputs and, and 2 program groups, the left and right buss. By using the PAN knobs and the record enable switches for the tape tracks you could route or assign any input to any one or two tracks at a time. Add two more program groups and now any input can go to any or all tracks. The 246 is like this.

You've got the idea right, the groups make it so any input can get to whichever tape tracks without any repatching.
 
Your M-08 technically has 2 PGM groups...the left buss and the right buss. Get your head around that...then just add more busses....same thing, just more routing flexibility.
 
PGM stands for program; program group...subgroup.

A 4 channel mixer with 4 program groups would have 4 inputs, and 4 output busses, the 4 groups. It's not 4 + 4, it's 4 inputs that can be assigned to any or all of the 4 outputs in any combination...like an infinitely variable patchbay.

Think of your 244...it had 4 inputs and, and 2 program groups, the left and right buss. By using the PAN knobs and the record enable switches for the tape tracks you could route or assign any input to any one or two tracks at a time. Add two more program groups and now any input can go to any or all tracks. The 246 is like this.

You've got the idea right, the groups make it so any input can get to whichever tape tracks without any repatching.

You're right Cory that the 246 has 4 PGM groups. One thing I'd mention, though, is that it doesn't have a separate level control for each group. It only has two level controls for the 4 busses: one for left (1/3) and one for right (2/4).

Brad, a mixer that's designed for recording will usually have its own volume control for the main buss (either one stereo fader or separate left and right faders), and then each subgroup will often have its own level control as well.

Take the Mackie 1604, for example. It's a 16-channel mixer with 4 subgroups (aka PGM groups). You can see in the picture here that each of the 16 channels has four buttons:
solo
1/2
3/4
L/R

This allows you to assign a channel to group 1 or 2 by panning left or right, respectively, or varying degrees of both by panning somewhere in between.
And/or you can assign a channel to group 3 or 4 by panning left or right, respectively, or varying degrees of both by panning somewhere in between.
And/or you can assign to the L/R main buss.

If you look over at the bottom right, you'll see a volume for the main buss (a single stereo fader) and separate volumes for each of the four subgroups.
 

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