New Psych-Pop (all-analog)

I really dig these man. I don't know if it's one thing more than the other that's giving you that 60s sound, or if it's just the combination of everything you use, but you really get it very well. And the songwriting is really nice too. I always enjoy your stuff.

I think out of these, "It All Depends.." is my favorite, but I really like them all.

I know all (or most) of your recording equipment is vintage, but are all your instruments too?
 
I really like the overall vibe in "Treat it like your first." "It all depends...", I like the way it builds. What keyboard(s) are you using?
 
Yeah....you've got the mid-'60s vibe in spades.

You even have the panning all '60s-weird, with things way off to the side....but it sounds good. :)
 
Also what gear do you use to record these tracks? Tape machine, reverb, preamps and mics? Was it a band? Or do you lay all the tracks one by one?
Thanks in advance.
 
Thanks to all ...

These were recorded on the AG-300 8-track on 1 inch Scotch 206, and mixed to an Ampex AG-440 2-track 1/4" on Scotch 202. Mixer is a Teac Model 5. Mic preamps include the Universal Audio LA-610 and Shure M67. Reverb courtesy a Biamp MR-140 and an Ampex 440 mono machine for delay. Buss compression via Art Pro-VLA. No compression was used during tracking, except for vocals (and some bass) on the LA-610. Instruments include '65 Fender Electric XII and Mellotron M4000D MINI. The bass was a Hoyer (German Hofner-copy type thing) from the '60s. drums also '60s, maybe '70s. I think pretty much all of the instruments are old, or 'vintage-correct' ... i.e., if the technology did not exist in the '60s-'70s, we don't really use it in the project for the most part. The 12-string acoustic is a more recent low-end Alvarez, but I can't find anything I like better! We used an RMI Lark organ for 'Summer is a Place'.

Still getting the hang of the Ampex (most of our previous recordings were done on a Teac 80-8 1/2"), but I think the '60s vibe is probably more technique than equipment ... that said, having the right equipment makes it easier to get in the ballpark without thinking about it too much. I figure if you go all the way in terms of equipment, down to the tape itself, then any shortcomings are due to technique. Though I'd love to get a real '60s mixing board at some point.

LToro -- I'm in Oakland, Calif.
 
Oh snap you're the dude that snatch the sunset sound Ampex. Good work! Thanks for the details b. I am in Queens NY.
I am currently working w a Teac 80-8, any real difference between the Ampex and Teac? Imagine it so.. Sorry about my English skill set, I am not native.

LT
 
Yeah it's weird. I remember reading about the British band called The La's (their hit was "There She Goes," famously covered by Sixpence None the Richer). Apparently, they used all vintage instruments and recording equipment on their debut album. Everything, down to the cables, was period correct. (That's what I heard anyway.) The legend goes that they even refused to dust off anything, and the lead singer even carried around a pouch of dust he'd collected from various 60s amps, etc. and would sprinkle some on a piece of gear if it were too clean! Ha!

Anyway, my point is that, when I listened to their album, it certainly didn't sound 60s to me. It sounded pretty modern actually---like, from the 90s (when it was released). I mean, sure it had a "retro" flavor to it, but it still sounded perfectly normal next to other releases of the day.

All of this is to say that I think you're right with regards to it being more technique than equipment.
 
famous beagle said:
Anyway, my point is that, when I listened to their album, it certainly didn't sound 60s to me. It sounded pretty modern actually---like, from the 90s (when it was released). I mean, sure it had a "retro" flavor to it, but it still sounded perfectly normal next to other releases of the day.

All of this is to say that I think you're right with regards to it being more technique than equipment.
Click to expand...

Not to distract from the album at hand too much, this might be interesting or amusing:
The Dukes of Stratosphear-The Mole from the Ministry - Full Video - YouTube

...they did this thing where they pretended the album was an unreleased album from 1967. It was actually recorded in 1984 by the british band XTC. They issued a second one called 'Psonic Psunspot' which had a rather good go at the Beach Boys with 'Pale and Precious'.
 
jpmorris said:
Not to distract from the album at hand too much, this might be interesting or amusing:
The Dukes of Stratosphear-The Mole from the Ministry - Full Video - YouTube

...they did this thing where they pretended the album was an unreleased album from 1967. It was actually recorded in 1984 by the british band XTC. They issued a second one called 'Psonic Psunspot' which had a rather good go at the Beach Boys with 'Pale and Precious'.
Click to expand...

Ha! That's pretty good. Straight up Magical Mystery Tour vibe (with some nods to "Day in the Life" in the mid section there too).
 
Oak of the Golden Dream is a great album, thoroughly enjoyable. I've listened to it a number of times since I received it, and I'd say it's the best thing Donny's done since Begin Thee Again (and if you haven't heard that one, you should). I really like what you've done with the videos, too, even if they are just stock footage ;)
 
Yeah this is great stuff Donny. I just ordered my copy of Oak...

By the way, I just got my Biamp MR140 today. I just ran some songs through it, and it seems to be working great. I'm not getting any noticeable noise, either, so I may not have to worry about that after all, just like you said.

So, when you used this reverb on your songs, did you print it to tape or add it at mixdown (it being mono and all)?

Thanks!
Chad
 
LToro said:
Oh snap you're the dude that snatch the sunset sound Ampex. Good work! Thanks for the details b. I am in Queens NY.
I am currently working w a Teac 80-8, any real difference between the Ampex and Teac? Imagine it so.. Sorry about my English skill set, I am not native.

LT
Click to expand...

Yes, there is a big difference, but I have to say the results I got with the Teac were just as good ... you just work with what you have. The only thing is I always cut a ton of bass on the 80-8, then I ended up doing the same thing with the Ampex without realizing it, resulting in a slightly thinner sound than I wanted. So, still learning the Ampex. Still have the Teac -- it's a great deck, I would have no problem going back to it.
 
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famous beagle said:
Yeah it's weird. I remember reading about the British band called The La's (their hit was "There She Goes," famously covered by Sixpence None the Richer). Apparently, they used all vintage instruments and recording equipment on their debut album. Everything, down to the cables, was period correct. (That's what I heard anyway.) The legend goes that they even refused to dust off anything, and the lead singer even carried around a pouch of dust he'd collected from various 60s amps, etc. and would sprinkle some on a piece of gear if it were too clean! Ha!

Anyway, my point is that, when I listened to their album, it certainly didn't sound 60s to me. It sounded pretty modern actually---like, from the 90s (when it was released). I mean, sure it had a "retro" flavor to it, but it still sounded perfectly normal next to other releases of the day.

All of this is to say that I think you're right with regards to it being more technique than equipment.
Click to expand...

good point ... yeh I have noticed the same thing. I hear some 'all analog' recordings (like the Foo Fighters, etc) that don't sound much different from other modern 'rock' productions. that said, I don't think I could my recordings right digitally.

In terms of the sonics, I think bouncing and using old (low-output) tape is a big part of the '60s sheen that most people using 'all vintage' seem to miss.
 
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Hammerstone said:
Oak of the Golden Dream is a great album, thoroughly enjoyable. I've listened to it a number of times since I received it, and I'd say it's the best thing Donny's done since Begin Thee Again (and if you haven't heard that one, you should). I really like what you've done with the videos, too, even if they are just stock footage ;)
Click to expand...

THANKS! I'm actually going to be 're-mastering' (ha) the thing, so I've pushed the new release to May 14 (should be done by then), so you got one of the unique versions. I'm gonna be re-transferring the album to digital running through a mastering EQ to get a little more lows. seemed a little thin to me. I'll send you the updated version when it's out as well.
 
famous beagle said:
Yeah this is great stuff Donny. I just ordered my copy of Oak...

By the way, I just got my Biamp MR140 today. I just ran some songs through it, and it seems to be working great. I'm not getting any noticeable noise, either, so I may not have to worry about that after all, just like you said.

So, when you used this reverb on your songs, did you print it to tape or add it at mixdown (it being mono and all)?

Thanks!
Chad
Click to expand...

For previous releases, which were mostly mono, I just added it at mixdown. I pretty much put it across everything except bass. For our first album (from 2008), that was stereo, so I panned it depending on the song, and also panned the delay (sometimes the same as the reverb, sometimes opposite, etc.). Sometimes there might be a reverb from an amp or something that was recorded with the signal (fairly common on keyboards).

This album was a little different as I was specifically experimenting w/ reverbs and bouncing, and it was the first stereo album we'd done in awhile. Almost all of the electric guitars and keyboards were recorded direct, so there was no amp reverb. The Ampex 8-track has a poor-sounding sync response (part of the design), so when doing bounces, you have to bounce entire groups ... like record 7 tracks, bounce to 1, etc. (as opposed to bouncing small groups as you go along). So I added the reverb along with each bounce. The basic setup was to do a basic track, bounce w/ reverb, then do the overdubs, and add the reverb at mixdown. I gave the vocals priority when panning the reverb on the final mix ... i.e., whatever panning suited them best. For example, on 'it all depends', the final mix reverb and tape delay is panned hard-left. The reverb on the basic track (in the middle) was printed with the bounce. The reverb on the harpsichord/flutes and fuzz guitar (hard right) would come out on the left w/ the vocals. Same thing on 'Summer is a Place', except reversed (delay & reverb hard right w/ vocals, fuzz guitar & tack piano get their reverb on the opposite side ... basic track reverb in the middle).

On 'Treat it Like Your First', there are only 8 tracks, so no bounces. the reverb was panned about 2 o'clock, and there is no delay. you can kind of hear the 'clangy' quality of the Biamp on that one!

So, if you bounce any tracks, you can get 2 or more reverbs to spread out over the stereo field.
 
famous beagle said:
Thanks for the info! Regarding the above, you could also get more reverbs by printing it to tape, correct? (i.e., recording the track with the reverb on it)
Click to expand...

Oh of course, yes! depends on how your mixer is setup. I often record direct from a stand-alone preamp (as opposed to routing everything through the board busses), so it's not always an option for me.
 
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