Going cheap, a big no no!

[Lt. Bob]

While I agree that ultimately the engineer is the most important tool in the studio (pun intended) I have to disagree with anyone pushing Berhinger. I have had the misfortune of using their mixers on occasion over the years and I wouldn't want to use one for live sound reinforcement at a childrens birthday party much less for commercial or semi-pro recording.

I would rather find a used Mackie soaked in cat piss then buy a brand new Berhri.

I don't think anyone is pushing Behringer gear in this thread.
We're just trying to point out to jean (unsuccessfully apparently) that sometimes you have to make do with what you can afford.
At 16 he obviously hasn't had to choose between eating and not eating when he's making a budget.
If you have the money ..... then better gear is a better choice ....... if you can save for a few months and get better gear then, once again, that's the way to go.
But if you have a choice between having a Behringer mixer or no mixer at all for the foreseeable future, then the Behringer will do a lot more than no mixer at all.

 

[darrin_h2000]

There is some cheap stuff that adds noise to the signal...that is the shit you should avoid...others are the things that when you shake them a little you can hear something bouncing arround inside...and those things that have flimsey plastic parts that fall off the first time anything hits it.

I hate to see people support companies arround here that put out only the worst quality stuff...because even at the rock bottom price, once you have bought it...that money is gone...then you might upgrade to another mic in a few months...since you cheap out on the first one...you will cheap out on this too...and by the time you did that you have spent enough to actually bought a mic that would have been considered good enough to be used in a real studio.
If you are smart...you buy used or stick with a nice Shure SM57 untill you can afford something really good...Ive seen AT40 series going for arround $150 used...so why would anyone pay the same for a mic that makes noise if you shake it a little?

 

[gecko zzed]

I must say I am new to recording, but as a live engineer I can do much more with a Midas legend 3000 that has a 4 band parametric eq than what I can do with a behringer that has a 3 band sweep type eq. The added quality of the eq also makes a difference. I am sure that with recording the same applies.

Midas Legend: about $30,000
Behringer: $500

Where is a beginner going to get the money to buy a Midas from?

You've subscribed to the fallacy that cheap = bad, expensive = good.

You've missed out on the importance of the concept of "fit for purpose".

 

[kcearl]

I don't think anyone is pushing Behringer gear in this thread.
We're just trying to point out to jean (unsuccessfully apparently) that sometimes you have to make do with what you can afford.
At 16 he obviously hasn't had to choose between eating and not eating when he's making a budget.
If you have the money ..... then better gear is a better choice ....... if you can save for a few months and get better gear then, once again, that's the way to go.
But if you have a choice between having a Behringer mixer or no mixer at all for the foreseeable future, then the Behringer will do a lot more than no mixer at all.

exactly..I prolly wont even try to sell these when I move on..Ill either give them away or bin them

and some of the stuff they make is shite..I bought a multi gain that I use to scare the neighbours dogs and a v tone that stopped working when I stuck the wrong wall wart into it...cant think why??

at least they were cheap

 

[darrin_h2000]

But if you have a choice between having a Behringer mixer or no mixer at all for the foreseeable future, then the Behringer will do a lot more than no mixer at all.

Id do without the mixer first...theres only a thousand Peavey mixers on Craigslist for dirt cheap...like the guy said above Used quality beats the hell out of a New POS.

 

[kcearl]

There is some cheap stuff that adds noise to the signal...that is the shit you should avoid...others are the things that when you shake them a little you can hear something bouncing arround inside...and those things that have flimsey plastic parts that fall off the first time anything hits it.

I hate to see people support companies arround here that put out only the worst quality stuff...because even at the rock bottom price, once you have bought it...that money is gone...then you might upgrade to another mic in a few months...since you cheap out on the first one...you will cheap out on this too...and by the time you did that you have spent enough to actually bought a mic that would have been considered good enough to be used in a real studio.
If you are smart...you buy used or stick with a nice Shure SM57 untill you can afford something really good...Ive seen AT40 series going for arround $150 used...so why would anyone pay the same for a mic that makes noise if you shake it a little?

weyhay its Darrin

No arguing today.....some cheap stuff is crap, some is good for the price, some is good stuff is now older and therefore cheap

I think the problem is blanket statements..not all behri stuff is crap

I learned to ride on a cheap 125 bike....my last one was about $12k...thats the way it works

 

[darrin_h2000]

Midas Legend: about $30,000
Behringer: $500

Where is a beginner going to get the money to buy a Midas from?

You've subscribed to the fallacy that cheap = bad, expensive = good.

You've missed out on the importance of the concept of "fit for purpose".

You do get what you pay for most all of the time...Ive only seen a few things that are exceptional to this rule...but Behringer doesnt make them...lol.

And if you are destitute when you are beginning...maybe this isnt the hobby for you.

 

[kcearl]

Id do without the mixer first...theres only a thousand Peavey mixers on Craigslist for dirt cheap...like the guy said above Used quality beats the hell out of a New POS.

Ive changed my mind


the mixers are not pieces of shit....look at what members here say about them...the majority of them are happy with the mixers they have..who are you to tell them they're wrong?

oh yeah..forgot..you're a pro who wont post any of his recordings

 

[kcearl]

You do get what you pay for most all of the time...Ive only seen a few things that are exceptional to this rule...but Behringer doesnt make them...lol.

And if you are destitute when you are beginning...maybe this isnt the hobby for you.

and maybe this websites not for someone who doesn't do this as a hobby?

 

[darrin_h2000]

weyhay its Darrin

some cheap stuff is crap, some is good for the price,
I learned to ride on a cheap 125 bike....my last one was about $12k...thats the way it works

If you can afford a 12 thousand dollar bicycle...why not more than $50 on something in your signal path???

Anyhow I think there is some inexpensive stuff out there that is good...and a thread with a list of it wouldnt hurt the beginers too much...but there is alot of beginer appropiate stuff that just end up being a paperweight sooner or later...or a regret.

 

[kcearl]

If you can afford a 12 thousand dollar bicycle...why not more than $50 on something in your signal path???

Anyhow I think there is some inexpensive stuff out there that is good...and a thread with a list of it wouldnt hurt the beginers too much...but there is alot of beginer appropiate stuff that just end up being a paperweight sooner or later...or a regret.

motorbike dufuss lol


my mixers wont be a regret..the multigain was a cheap regret..and the v tone..I mean how do wall warts differ lol

I have a B2 condenser for my acoustic etc..its pretty good, and a Vamp for farting about with...some of its better sounding than my pod, don't think Ill be buying any more though


A thread would be good but there would be too much arguement, some of the studio guys, and I dont necesserally mean you, are so far removed from what a newb can afford or even how seriously they are taking this they'd get nothing from it


tell you what you start one...and ill get it moved to the cave

 

[CMunch]

Lol @ 12 thousand dollar bicycle.

pwned.

 

[darrin_h2000]

motorbike dufuss lol

Oh a dirtbike...like Vanilla Ice...thats different...I guess if I had $12,000 for a dirtbike Id still be able to afford $200 for a mic...and even if I didnt Id still not settle for any bottom feeder stuff...too much good used stuff out there to do that.

 

[kcearl]

a dirtbike?


hahahaha go away ya fricken eejit


my mic for vocals was $70 new..an 835..does me fine...bet Im a better singer on a friday night after the pubs close than you!

my mate Peter was the very first guy to book Vanilla Ice a gig....he owes us all an apology

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Wow, they had digital audio when you started... Noob

North Shore, huh? Typical.

Yeah... This'd be like '99. Not far into digital, but far enough. Even that experience was enough to get me hooked, though.


Anyway, we're going WAY off topic. No one goes out and spends $5k on a guitar just to learn (well, almost no one). Most people don't learn to drive in Ferarris, or learn to fly in F-22s. Cheap gear serves a twofold purpose - one, for people who simply don't have a huge budget to work with, it lets them work on the cheap, and two, for someone just starting out, it's possible to put together a decent enough "studio" with cheap gear to learn how to record and mix, see if this is a hobbpy/craft they're any good at, and then drop the serious coin on pro equiptment.

For what it's worth, since we keep coming back to Behringer - I own a set of Behringer monitors. They're ok - the computer speakers I'd been working on previously (pretty good for computer speakers, but computer speakers) started to die, and I needed something in a hurry during a period where I didn't have much spare cash. I grabbed the Behringers because I figured even they were better than my computer speakers (especially after the comp speakers started cutting out ), and when I eventually outgrew them I could just give them to my dad, who was working on speakers inferior even to mine. So, it wouldn't be money "wasted" exactly. I've definitely hit the point where I'm ready for something better, but I don't regret it - they were cheap, and they're going to completely open my dad's eyes (he's a hobbyist too, but focused more on the singer/songwriter thing and documenting songs than on making "professional" sounding recordings. As such he's probably happier with his work than I am mine. )

 

[UltimateOutside]

All the gear in the world isn't going to make good music if you don't know how to use it. I think talent, knowledge, and skill are several times more important than the gear.

 

[darrin_h2000]

my mic for vocals was $70 new..an 835..does me fine...bet Im a better singer on a friday night after the pubs close than you!

If you practice and take a few lessons...maybe they wont make you sing only when they want people to leave

 

[gecko zzed]

You do get what you pay for most all of the time...Ive only seen a few things that are exceptional to this rule...but Behringer doesnt make them...lol.

And if you are destitute when you are beginning...maybe this isnt the hobby for you.

But there are exceptions if you look around.

And it is no so much about being 'destitute' as having a limited budget to spend on equipment. The OP was talking about Behri vs Midas. What weird idea is it that someone should invest 'wisely' in a gear that costs about 60 times that of gear in the budget beginner range?

When you start, you get what you can afford at the time. It may not be the best, it may eventually break, but it will get you going. You learn its limitations, and the (eventual) replacement cost is an investment in training.

 

[darrin_h2000]

But there are exceptions if you look around.

And it is no so much about being 'destitute' as having a limited budget to spend on equipment. The OP was talking about Behri vs Midas. What weird idea is it that someone should invest 'wisely' in a gear that costs about 60 times that of gear in the budget beginner range?

When you start, you get what you can afford at the time. It may not be the best, it may eventually break, but it will get you going. You learn its limitations, and the (eventual) replacement cost is an investment in training.

That being said...when a new behringer is the same price as a used soundcraft or Mackie...the smart money doesnt buy the new Behringer.

When an audio technica 40 series used is the same price as a cheap new mic...the smart money goes to the real mic.

Just because you are a beginner doesnt mean you cant drive a caddilac in stead of a yugo...you just have to be a smarter shopper.

 

[halfred]

Practicallity will always win over elitist points of view, no matter what the endeavor. Practice is organic, and Elitism is a misdirected state of mind often a subsitute for real knowledge gained through experience. Pardon me for being philosophical, I'm sitting at work today bored out of my skull.