Zero fret question...

[32-20-Blues]

So, when I'm playing fingerstyle I often tune down a half step and capo at the first fret. I like the way it evens out my string tone, if you know what I mean. I understand that a zero fret will do the same thing.

Given the benefits of the zero-fret (the fact that the cut of nut slots is less important, and open and fretted strings have a more consistent tone) why aren't they more popular? From a luthiers point of view, are there any drawbacks that I'm not aware of?

 

[muttley600]

So, when I'm playing fingerstyle I often tune down a half step and capo at the first fret. I like the way it evens out my string tone, if you know what I mean. I understand that a zero fret will do the same thing.

Given the benefits of the zero-fret (the fact that the cut of nut slots is less important, and open and fretted strings have a more consistent tone) why aren't they more popular? From a luthiers point of view, are there any drawbacks that I'm not aware of?

There is nothing wrong with zero frets in themselves. I don't like them as the nut is in effect a fret. The zero fret wears faster than a bone nut so the grooves are going to get deep pretty quick with an increased chance of buzzing. The only answer really is to replace the zero fret as the rest of the frets would still be in reasonable condition. They can also present some slight problems with intonation that you don't experience with a normal bone nut. The tension in the string at the fixed points and its resistance to vibrating is greater. The string over a nut spreads the tension more effectively. The problems are not huge or hard to deal with though.

There are a few other considerations but those are the most common.

 

[TelePaul]

On a similar note, does anyone find playing is easier when a cap is attached? The strings feel more....substantial somehow.

 

[muttley600]

On a similar note, does anyone find playing is easier when a cap is attached? The strings feel more....substantial somehow.

Thats because on nine out of ten guitars, even good ones the nut is set wrong. Thats why I keep saying that the nut slots need to be as low or even LOWER than the first fret hight. It's one of those killer differences that makes a really good setup. If they are then it is just another fret and exactly like a capo. String length also has something to do with it as well. Higher up the neck you go the less stretching involved and the less precise you need to be to some small degree.

 

[normalizer]

when you tune down, you are also losing string tension and using a capo brings that back up. i bet thats what you like. zero frets never did anything for me. just my opinion.

 

[Milnoque]

There was a time when fretwire was one of the more expensive things on the guitar. The luthiers that developed the original designs may have made the choice as simply cost savings. Another possibility is that the translation of finger positioning from fretless instruments was more intuitive. Either way, guitars of the first half of the 20th century followed the tradition.

In the '50s and '60s alot of manufacturers of very inexpensive instruments used the zero fret so they didn't have to train line workers to get the nut right. As a result many of today's luthiers and players still associate the zero fret with cheesy manufacturing.

The truth was and is that even with a zero fret the nut must be cut correctly.

Luthier Steve Klein is a fan of the zero fret. As are a handful of other top makers.

My experience is, if the guitar is set up correctly, it doesn't matter about the zero fret.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

A zero fret is supposed to sound more like the other frets on the instrument, right?

I like the way an open string sounds. It gets better sustain and sounds slightly louder and more full (fuller?). I suspect you would lose that with the zero fret.

I just checked Wikipedia too. Milnoque's hit the high points. Only "cheap" instruments traditionally use a zero fret.

 

[Fusioninspace]

Wow, this is actually pretty interesting. I used to be anti zero fret because of the negative vibe - but it seems like I'm seeing them on more and more of the boutique/custom acoustic jobs.

So, Mutley, if the fret wire used for a zero fret wears faster than a nut, I wonder why they just don't use a different kind of metal? I'm thinking the Dano's and the metal nut is a cool sound - is that something similar?

 

[metalhead28]

Thats why I keep saying that the nut slots need to be as low or even LOWER than the first fret hight. It's one of those killer differences that makes a really good setup....

I've never heard that, and it's interesting because I'm about to start making a new nut. Don't your open strings buzz alot easier? I was thinking I needed to try about .020 to .030" above the fret height.

 

[Light]

Thats why I keep saying that the nut slots need to be as low or even LOWER than the first fret hight.

I've never heard that, and it's interesting because I'm about to start making a new nut. Don't your open strings buzz alot easier? I was thinking I needed to try about .020 to .030" above the fret height.

I've got to disagree with Muttley on this one. I don't measure it, but I would estimate that I aim for about .002-.005" above the level of the frets. 0.020-.030" is quite high I mean, 1/32" is .032 - and that is WAY higher than you want it. I NEVER measure nut slots - at least not with any kind of numbers. I start with a thin straight edge (the back side of a Exacto saw blade) to measure the height. As you pull the straight edge out of the nut slot you will hear a little click. The volume of that click gives you a good idea of what is going on. After that, you string it up and then use the string as a straight edge to finalize it. Push down the string on the OTHER side of the second fret (the side closer to the bridge), and look between the first fret and the string. You want to file until the string is just above the first fret. The space should be about a business cards thickness, maybe just a hair less. Just a few thousandths, at any rate.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[ggunn]

when you tune down, you are also losing string tension and using a capo brings that back up. i bet thats what you like. zero frets never did anything for me. just my opinion.

Maybe this isn't what you meant to say, but while tuning down does lower string tension, putting a capo on does not increase tension. Well, maybe a tiny bit as the string stretches over the fret, but not much.