You guys are the GREATEST - But Let's be Reasonable :)

[ENIGMACODE]

Hello to ALL!

I've posted here before, and everyone has been really great in offering advice, and information in regard to 'Home-Built' Studios ........ where else can you get soooo much GOOD RESEARCHED DATA?!

After participating in so many discussions, I've come to realize that while there has been so much good advice, many times questions about specific issues lead the Home Builder on a never-ending, impossible quest to meet his meager accomplishment.

I suppose I should trust my own building skills, and proceed without further haste to build my simple 'all purpose recording recording room' ???

BUT

I would LOVE to first wrap up some inquisitive loose ends, and get the final blessing from the Big Guys out here ......... or am I asking for another punishment? kidding

Uploaded JPG Drawings:
My diagrams have not been drawn to the accuracy of some others - BUT hopefully they will do ......

I will start with this overview:
Please bear in mind that this construction project is for the purpose of creating one 'all-purpose' irregularly shaped recording/rehearsal room to be built within the basement of a tiny 2-bedroom row home - IT'S ONLY A HOBBY .....
http://locationstudio.net/new.jpg
My main concern will be 'Reflection', and secondarily 'Isolation'

The Floor:
I've already laid down (hammer gunned), pressure-treated 2X6's on leveled concrete, and 3/4" Plywood will follow - screwed and glued to the runners as a sub floor.

Parallel Walls:
I understand the importance of NON- PARALLEL walls, and perhaps I can incorporate a few .....

Saving Money from Expensive Auralex Products:
I'd like to SAVE money in regard to building my own bass traps, and line the walls with some type of FOAM covered with fabric (further details below)
http://locationstudio.net/in-wall.jpg


Ventilation:
You may see that the only type of ventilation is from an Air Conditioner that will unfortunately pierce through a 2 wall constructed outside wall - but it will have a Removable Sound Barrier Cover used during the winter months ......
http://locationstudio.net/new.jpg

Remaining Questions holding up Construction:
I still have some questions which are preventing me from continuing construction - they should not be difficult to answer:

Gasket Material:
I planned on laying 2X4 wall plates down on the floor, with gaskets between them, and the 3/4" Plywood Sub floor. I'd like to use this same gasket material, also as an insulator where the Ceiling Joists are fastened to the top of the walls.
(any ideas on where or what to use for gasket material?)

Inner Wall Construction:
I planned on facing the Inner Walls with some type of foam or fiber insulation (for reflection), (details below).
With this in mind, what type of wallboard should I use?
5/8" Drywall - 1/2" Drywall - Homasote?
http://locationstudio.net/in-wall.jpg


Inner Wall Treatment:
(Studio Side) - I've read where some guys have had luck in applying a product called 703 (ceiling tiles), with the vinyl layer peeled off, or some other type of Fiberglass or Foam attached directly to the Inner Walls, then covered with a fabric and framed with 1x3's
Here are a few photos of a similarly constructed wall:
http://locationstudio.net/live4.jpg
http://locationstudio.net/roland3.jpg

Outside Wall Treatment:
Since this is a room within a room, I'd like to know if I need to have drywall on the other side of some of the newly constructed walls? Hopefully not, so that it will not be necessary for me to stagger the studs ...
http://locationstudio.net/top.jpg
http://locationstudio.net/heater.jpg

Fiberglass Insulation stuffed inside the walls:
Is 3 1/2" of fiberglass insulation in the INNER walls sufficient? And as asked above, is it OK to just simply leave the Outside Walls exposed (leaving the insulation exposed)
http://locationstudio.net/top.jpg

Thanks to everyone ……..
Feel Free to email me:
Best Regards
Michael Fraticelli
rocknroll@ucwphilly.rr.com

 

[frederic]

questions about specific issues lead the Home Builder on a never-ending, impossible quest to meet his meager accomplishment.

No studio is going to be perfect, whether professional-grade, home studio, whatever. Its like building a car - there are always tradeoffs. However, if you can minimize the tradeoffs you're ahead of the game. Just keep that in mind so you know ahead of time perfection is damned expensive. Reasonable, of course is significantly cheaper

My diagrams have not been drawn to the accuracy of some others - BUT hopefully they will do ......

The first thing I will point out is that your console room walls are not symetrical on either side of the console table. One end looks rectangular-ish, the other end fans out kinda funny. Its typically for the console to be at a narrow end, gradually widening as you approach 50-60% of the lenth of the room, or more. This is to cut back on confusing reflections in the sitting position.

I've already laid down (hammer gunned), pressure-treated 2X6's on leveled concrete, and 3/4" Plywood will follow - screwed and glued to the runners as a sub floor.

Are you floating the floor, or just constructing a strong floor? If you're floating it, for better sound isolation, you need rubber supports under the studs, above the concrete. Another thing to consider is sound reflection through the floor, bouncing off the concrete, then back up. An insulating material like rockwook is good for this. Have you considered moisture issues? If the leveled concrete is below ground, even if you aren't in an area with a high water table, moisture can be trapped under a floor like you've constructed, and build up mold over the years. I for one can be killed by excessive mold buildup which was one of the reasons I selected my garage loft for my home studio, instead of the much larger basement.

I understand the importance of NON- PARALLEL walls, and perhaps I can incorporate a few .....

Yes, non parallel walls are evil, however you can place foam bass traps in front of them on stands, or make other kinds of treatments and place them in front of one of the walls. Then, its a complex wall, and no longer completely parallel. You can always build a new wall in front of one of the parallel walls, at an angle.

You need a tremendous amount of auralex foam to get rid of standing waves in the 30-45hz range.

I'd like to SAVE money in regard to building my own bass traps, and line the walls with some type of FOAM covered with fabric (further details below)

You can make wooden slatted resonators, you can cover fiberglass panels with cloth, there are many things you can do at a lower cost than buying auralex foam. Occasionally music stores get stuck with foam and they "dump" it cheap just to unload it. Sometimes, wierd colors which don't sell. I recently acquired two boxes of foam that retails for $400, for a mere $99 plus shipping each. Not a big foam guy, but for $99 that saves me the hassle of making tons of homemade treatments. There is a point where buying it is less painful than making it. Of course, someitmes the reverse is also true (and usually the case).

constructed outside wall - but it will have a Removable Sound Barrier Cover used during the winter months ......

In my old version of my home studio (aforementioned garage loft) I had a window air conditioner. They are noisey so you'll have to turn it off when the mics are live, but also, they leak sound like you would not believe, in both directions. Remember, its essentially a hole in the wall with a $300 compressor shoved into said hole So you need to be aware of whats going on outside, because cover or not, you know the second your turn it off, and light up the mics, your neighbor will fire up his weed whacker. its just the way it is.

A mini-split system can be had for less than a grand nowadays, and provide heating and cooling. Mini-splits are essentially two units, an window airconditioner shaped panel, that mounts on the surface of the wall (typically above the windows), and is connected to a huge condensor/fan thing thats outside. This connects with two pipes, and the noisy bits are outside, and the quiet, fanless bits are inside. Its a worthwhile upgrade to consider down the road. Start with the wall A/C you have now, and if its an intolerable option, you can upgrade to the minisplit system. I will be purchasing one in the spring, because it solves more than just heating/cooling issues for me. Right now my garage loft home studio is part of the same zone as the rest of the house, so if my wife bakes something, I freeze to death.

I planned on laying 2X4 wall plates down on the floor, with gaskets between them, and the 3/4" Plywood Sub floor. I'd like to use this same gasket material, also as an insulator where the Ceiling Joists are fastened to the top of the walls.
(any ideas on where or what to use for gasket material?)

Neoprene and butyl rubber makes good, long lasting gaskets. In a pinch, silicone works too, but its nasty to change, adjust and fix things later.

With this in mind, what type of wallboard should I use?
5/8" Drywall - 1/2" Drywall - Homasote?

This is not my expertise, but I've seen others suggest two different thicknesses of drywall layered. I went with commercial grade plywood, and now covering that in 3/8" drywall. I can crank the volume very loud, to the point where I can't hear anyone yelling at me in the room, and outside with the original windows closed I can barely hear the music outside. Not a scientific test, but it was good enough for me to realized my choice in materials is working out.

Is 3 1/2" of fiberglass insulation in the INNER walls sufficient? And as asked above, is it OK to just simply leave the Outside Walls exposed (leaving the insulation exposed)

All my inner walls were stuffed with 6" fiberglass insulation, but the shell of my walls of my garage loft were 6", so I decided just to pack it in there and not worry about it. Not sure if that helps you or not, I may be admitting I goofed, I don't know

Hope that helps a bit!

 

[ENIGMACODE]

Thanx Frederic - Please Read

You mentioned:

"your console room walls are not symmetrical on either side of the console table"
No need to worry about where a console will be - there is NO provision nor any extra room to consider having a control room - I do have a large Tascam Digital Mixer - I'll just deal with it later ... again - this is a MULTI-Purpose Music Room ......


"you need rubber supports under the studs, above the concrete"
Too late unfortunately - as I said I've already attached the runners to the concrete with NOTHING between them - however please explain this Rock Wool additive- DO YOU MEAN TO SIMPLY LAY IT BETWEEN THE RUNNERS (to fill up the space)?
If so, Styrofoam may be better - (no moisture will be absorbed)

"considered moisture issues?"
There are NONE

"the second your turn it off, and light up the mics, your neighbor will fire up his weed whacker"
This is NOT an issue

"Yes, non parallel walls are evil"
You meant to say that PARALLEL walls are a problem - but you also said:
"however you can place foam bass traps in front of them on stands"
Perhaps I'll just do this - instead of building non-parallel walls, and basically keep what little room I have ???

Thank you Frederic - hope you can get back to me
Feel Free to email me:
Best Regards
Michael Fraticelli
rocknroll@ucwphilly.rr.com

 

[frederic]

Mike,

Regarding rock wool, yes, you want to fill up the space with something, just to help acoustically "hide" the very reflective concrete. Rock wool is one of many choices. you can probably even use encapsulated fiberglass insulation, though I believe rock wool works better in this type of application.

I'm curious, which large tascam digital mixer, the 8000 or the 4000?

Parallel walls are evil, and make it more difficult to tune the room. Standing waves are a problem. You can fix it by one or more methods. Make one wall not parallel to the other. You can use a LOT of auralex foam, and you can put on slatted resonators, baffles, and other things to angle sections of the wall. Sometimes you need a combination of all of the above, it depends how bad the standing waves are. I can't really guess what frequencies you'd have standing waves on, but if the walls are parallel you will have them.

I have them here, and I'll be making angled slotted resonators and attaching them to the wall as to break them up. But thats down the road, I'm still mudding

 

[frederic]

BTW, rr.com (your ISP) blocks my mail server for whatever reason, so I couldn't reply to your email. I'll PM you my number.