XP crash with M-Audio and REASON

J

joergb

New member
Dear All,

sorry in case of asking a question already answered somewhere, but days of trying and searching left me completely frustrated.

I am using the Audiophile M-Audio soundcard together REASON Adapted 2.5 on my NEC Versa P440 (Windows XP, all the latest drivers, updates etc.).

M-Audio alone runs fine (e.g. together with Adobe Audition), and REASON as well (with the on-board soundcard).

But when I try to run REASON with my M-Audio, I get bluescreen. Sometimes after 5 minutes, but mostly after starting REASON when the M-Audio is already switched on.

I installed the latest driver from the M-Audio homepage, no help.

I'm really puzzled, because everywhere I read only positive reports about the M-Audio and REASON, but I can't get it running stable.

Any help is really welcome!!

Thanks,
joerg
 
Well, that is a poser. All I can suggest is to reformat/reinstall, which is a major pain, I know. As you layer on the software to the new install be sure to use restore points.

Start>All Programs>Accessories>System Tools>System Restore

Install the M-Audio drivers first, then Reason. Make sure they work. Then install everything else. As each new app, regardless of how trivial, goes on, set a restore point. Test. Roll back as necessary.

The system will set it's own restore points without your intervention, or knowledge. You might try stepping back through those to see if at some point things start to work for you.

Luck.
 
Which M-Audio soundcard are you using? The NEC Versa P440 is a notebook computer is it not?
 
I'll try this ...

wheelema said:
Well, that is a poser. All I can suggest is to reformat/reinstall, which is a major pain, I know.

<snip>
Click to expand...


Thanks, I'll try this!

... before that I already tried anything else like activating/disactivating drivers, DirectX/Mouse/Monitor/Digital Input for the Soundcard etc etc

With M-Audio DX and MME the card works (well, latency ... and it hangs up occasionally, but without crashing the whole Windows) ...

joerg
 
joer. i dont know the versa intimately but i looked up the specs.
you didnt mention how much memory you have. but if its basic 128 this could be an issue if you dont have 512. if i remember the way you wish to operate requires quite a bit of memory , also its not exactly a powerhouse notebook.
i'm a puter engr and suspect disc drive speed might be an issue as well.
the only way i will know is if you run diskbench (from prorec.com) on it and tell me the reported stats. no disrespect - but a lot of folks think one can just run anything on these level of notebooks. sure they are fine for netting and normal office tasks but digital audio is a whole other beast requiring a properly configured laptop solution. i wont even go into usb that a lot seem to have had problems with in day to day use. to be fair usb is running fine
on lots of systems - but also a lot of folks seem to have problems.
it might therefore end up working fine for you.
one other issue is ...dma. but maybe your drive is not dma doable . i dont know from the scant specifications posted.
but if you post your memory and hard drive disk bench stats we can go from there. also you might tell me if your current drive is 5400 rpm.
 
Dear All,

thanks for all your replies so far! In case you have some time to deal with the details of my Audiophile problem, below I put

* the bluescreen error message
* a more detailed system information
* the output of diskbench

I still hesitate re-installing the whole system, since I believe it is a Audiophile driver problem, the bluescreen message is referring to the M-Audio driver.
I also doubt a bit the problem is memory or disk related (I got 256 MB, and PROPELLERHEAD crashes Windows often on startup when the audiophile is switched on and PROPELLERHEAD is configured for ASIO mode, that is, long before I can start some performance critical operations).

Any advise is really welcome!
joerg

XXX THE BLUESCREEN MESSAGE

DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

TECHNICAL INFOTMATION:

*** STOP: 0x000000D1 (0xFF837000,0x00000002,0x00000000,0xF95C5E5E)

*** MA763003.SYS - ADDRESS F955C5E5E base at F95C1000, DATE STAMP 3ec00857

XXX THE SYSTEM INFORMATION

OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name SCHROTT
System Manufacturer NEC Computers International
System Model Versa P440
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~2191 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date Phoenix Technologies LTD R01-E0B, 22/02/2003
SMBIOS Version 2.31
Windows Directory C:WINDOWS
System Directory C:WINDOWSsystem32
Boot Device DeviceHarddiskVolume2
Locale United Kingdom
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)"
User Name SCHROTTjoerg
Time Zone W. Europe Standard Time
Total Physical Memory 256.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 70.00 MB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
Page File Space 1,009.01 MB
Page File C:pagefile.sys

XXX DISKBENCH OUTPUT

DskBench 2.11
(c) 1998, SESA, J.M.Catena (admin@sesa.es, www.sesa.es)
Timer Check = 991 (should be near 1000)
CPU Check = 50.15 % (should be near 50.00 %)
CPU index (relative to Pro 200 MHz) = 6.299243
Open = 0 ms
Write = 50182 ms, 5.10 MB/s, CPU = 1.75 %
Flush = 0 ms
Rewin = 0 ms
Read = 56982 ms, 4.49 MB/s, CPU = 3.39 %
Close = 50 ms
BlockSize = 131072, MB/s = 2.05, Tracks = 24.34, CPU = 1.73 %
BlockSize = 65536, MB/s = 2.08, Tracks = 24.72, CPU = 1.68 %
BlockSize = 32768, MB/s = 2.08, Tracks = 24.78, CPU = 1.70 %
BlockSize = 16384, MB/s = 2.21, Tracks = 26.30, CPU = 1.74 %
BlockSize = 8192, MB/s = 2.25, Tracks = 26.76, CPU = 1.73 %
BlockSize = 4096, MB/s = 2.36, Tracks = 28.04, CPU = 1.82 %
 
joe. i'll tell you to be honest i dont know if i can help you.
but i'll try.
right off the bat look at the dbench read and write hd numbers. of approx 5 mb/second. this is NOT GOOD for what your trying to do.
which requires computing power.
ideally you need 20 mb plus figures. also look at the low track number.
not good.
you need to look at the specs also of memory needs of the software you are trying to use. i suspect 512 memory is needed for what your trying to do.
to be frank, and i know this isnt probably what you want to hear but i think
you need to run your recording environment/daw on a better pc with better hard drive and memory capabilities.
also could you look in device manager and tell me if any items are "flagged".
NOTE..some notebooks you can put a hard drive upgrade in to a 7200 rpm drive. but i would test this at a dealer and make sure it works with your recording software before spending money. you should check with NEC tech support and see if this is even possible with this notebook. ie: a hard drive upgrade.
in summary your notebook imho is not suitable as a moderrn daw.
it just doesnt have "the grunt".
sorry - and peace.
 
Stop 0xD1 messages can occur after installing faulty drivers or system services. If a driver is listed by name, disable, remove, or roll back that driver to confirm that this resolves the error. If so, contact the manufacturer about a possible update. Using updated software is especially important for backup programs, multimedia applications, antivirus scanners, DVD playback, and CD mastering tools.
I would recommend downloading TuneUp Utilities to optimize your system first. Then uninstall the soundcard drivers ,run the utility program to clean the registry and reinstall the drivers. I also agree with Manning that you will need at least 512 of ram to run XP Pro.
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download3891.html
 
Dear All,

thanks for your kind advise! O.k., I understand my laptop is likely to be not powerful enough for what I tried to do (although it more than fulfills the specs given by the software I failed to run, and it worked quite well with the external USB soundblaster card... I just hoped the "Audiophile" to bring a certain upgrade wrt signal/noise, not a total crash) ... bad news :-(

Anyway, I guess the bluescrenn with the M-Audio card driver is something different, not related to insufficient compute power. I tried all, cleaning up the registry, re-installing the drivers, latest BIOS and Chipset update etc etc ... no help. I guess the Audiophile USB driver for XP is BUGGY:

Sth. very strange I realised is related to the SPDIF I/O of this card. Although I switched it off in the menue (having no digital I/O connected), in my recordings software (Adobe AUDITION) in the "Device Order" menue, the M-Audio SPDIF always pushes itself to #1, deactivating the analogue channels. And the card's manual says the card will fail to work correctly when SPDIF is activated but no source connected ... so maybe the de-activation in the card's software does not work, and that is the reason why it keeps crashing? But I cannot debug the Audiophiles driver/software...

I seriously wonder if anyone out there managed to trun the M-Audio Audiphile USB card together with XP in ASIO mode?
I was sceptical from the beginning since the driver is not certified by Microsoft, an the installation procedure was somewhat "rocky" ... but the very good reputation of the Audiophile (maybe not the USB version of the card?) made me give it a try anyway.

O.k.... I'll send it back to the dealer then.

Thanks again, best wishes,
joerg
 
yeah... the m-audio usb drivers seem a bit dodgy.. it keeps asking if you really want to use the driver because it's not signed... and it wants to install them everytime I reboot or turn my usb quattro on...

Is it possible to get a better driver out there?
 
lascalaboy said:
yeah... the m-audio usb drivers seem a bit dodgy.. it keeps asking if you really want to use the driver because it's not signed... and it wants to install them everytime I reboot or turn my usb quattro on...

Is it possible to get a better driver out there?
Click to expand...

Also my card wants to re-install the drivers every time I connect it to *another* USB port (my laptop has 2), switching on and off at the same port seems to be o.k.

The fact the drivers are not signed is mentioned in the manual (p.6), and it recommends to click the warning away, saying "The dialog box indicates that this is a relatively new product. While we are going through the driver certification procedure with Microsoft, we assure you the Audiophile USB drivers are of the highest quality, and will cause no problems in your system."

The current driver (1.5.4.15) is from June 2003 (see http://m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers ... you might want to check this site to see if you really got the latest driver!) ... I wonder how long a Microsoft certification will take, a whole year? Or are there maybe any other reasons while the drivers do net get certficated, although M-Audio claims the procedure is on the way? Your gues...

I contacted the (German) M-Audio hotline and already got some reply (asking for more details), so maybe there is a chance for a fix or a new driver ... but I must say I am *really frustrated* with using that card so far ... espacially when comparing it to the cheap external USB Soundblaster which was really plug and play...

Best,
joerg
 
joerg. with respect if you know the saying making a silk purse out of a sows ear, this is what your trying to do with that laptop.
my recommendation......as ive said many times on this bbs. stay away from usb, and underpowered laptops.
the whole concept of plug and play is just marketing as many are finding out.
 
manning1 said:
joerg. with respect if you know the saying making a silk purse out of a sows ear, this is what your trying to do with that laptop.
my recommendation......as ive said many times on this bbs. stay away from usb, and underpowered laptops.
the whole concept of plug and play is just marketing as many are finding out.
Click to expand...

hmmm ... no question you are right, but I didn't consider meeting hardware limitations that early. The whole story of the past 8 weeks is:

1) I was connecting my good old $50 Peavy microphone to my laptop's mic in, recording with Audacity. Not bad, but too much noise ... though, an order better when compared to the tape recordings I did 10+ years ago.

2) Buying a cheap $40 USB Soundblaster card, better recording quality, but now I didn't like Audacity any more (too much limitations etc...), so I got Adobe's Audition via ebay ... very nice tool, I still like it, really!

3) Buying a cheap pre-amp for my mic, routing it to the soundblaster USB card and recording via Audition (on my crappy slow laptop). No problems, perfect sound. O.k. ... I was never expecting pro level ... just nice quality, getting rid of the necessity to do noise/hiss reduction etc. after recording. All accusic instruments I'm playing (piano, sax, shakuhachi) sounded almost sufficiently well...

4) Buying the Audiophile USB ... just to boost the SNR a bit more when compared to the Soundblaster ...up to 3) all went pretty straight and I did not get the impression meeting my equipment's limitations. I just thought of it as 'plugging in a slightly better card' ... and this turned out to be a complete failure. Mind you all went pretty well with the USB Soundblaster (even using REASON, a latency below 50ms! No crackling, no drop-outs, nothing ... )

I'm not planning to do 25 tracks live recording or such, just 3-4 tracks, one after the other, and mixing down with Audition, not a big deal (I thought...).

Call me stubborn, but I still believe the troubles I described when starting that thread can be explained by a bug in the Audiophile USB driver ... although I believe you are absolutely right that my equipment is not suitable for any larger projects and USB is not a reasonable choice when PCI is an option ... I just want to get that little setup running.

So ... now I ask myself if there is a USB card available with really o.k. drivers for XP, not too bad sound quality and maybe even ASIO support. I'd give it a try, and maybe later upgrade to a better laptop...

Anyway, thanks a lot for your patience!

joerg
 
jooer. if your doing a few tracks. your position is a fair one.
i thought you wanted to do lots more tracks.
if you want to proceed further with the versa i would however recommend a couple of things. talk to the manufacturer about upgrading to a good faster 7200 rpm hard drive. if you google you will find there are upgrade kits available for slow laptop hard drives. with such an upgrade you will get better drive perrformance which is what audio needs.
secondly upgrade the ram. really cool edit needs quite a bit of memory.
512 ram definitely. thirdly if you cant reconcile the audiophile usb issue
i would try a different product on a return money back basis if your not happy. its just the nature of the beast.
some products work better on certain laptops than others.
peace and good luck.
 
PROBLEM SOLVED!!! The (German) M-Audio hotline gave (with lots of other really helpful tips) the advise to check if my computer has a variable clock rate, and if yes, switch off that feature.

Of course my (any!?) laptop has that power management feature, and after switching it off in the BIOS the Audiophile runs stable ... in ASIO mode withe REASON and (so far) as well with any other software.

A bit annoying I have to change the BIOS setup when I want to use my Laptop for recording, but I can live with that. I just wonder why this information could not be found in any knowledge base ... could have saved me a couple of grey hairs.

Anyway, thanks to all of you and esp. to "manning1" for your help and avise!

Best wishes,
joerg
 
well thats great joer.
have a great time !!
but i would at some point still think about a memory and hd upgrade if you wish to do more tracks.
peace.
 
AM I right in thinking that my usb Quattro wlil work better on my laptop if I do the same?
How do I do that?

Thanks.
 
lascalaboy said:
AM I right in thinking that my usb Quattro wlil work better on my laptop if I do the same?
How do I do that?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

o.k., before explaining how to do that: being a scientist and always doubting any experimental results, I tried to reproduce the crash by resetting to variable clock speed, but still my PC refuses to crash ... I'm sure now having the same set-up which crashed over the past couple of weeks, and still it runs stable. I continue analysing that issue...

In case you want to give it a try anyway, be careful, because you have to change the BIOS setup of your laptop.

***
Don't change a setting without understanding what you do!

Make sure you know how to activate the factory preset in case sth goes wrong!
***

1) When booting your machine, it tells you which button to press to enter the BIOS SETUP (it might be F2, as for my machine, or ESC or whatever). Press that button and the SETUP menue will open.

2) Try to find an entry which is related to clock speed (on my Versa it is called "SpeedStep", but I suppose this is just a vendor specific name ...) and set this to a constant value (which might be called "Maximum Performance" or "Disabled" or "Battery Optimized" or whatever).

3) Exit the BIOS SETUP with saving your changes.

Some remarks:

* as I said, I am not so sure any more if that was really the reason to solve my laptop's bluescreen issue ... a memory violation is a tough thing which is hard to resolve and reproduce, and I get scared the problems will suddenly come back...

* not every laptop might have variable clock speed, so maybe you won't find anything related in the BIOS SETUP

* disabling the variable clockspeed will affect how long you can work on battery and/or the performance, depending on the settings you choose

* try some of the other things first the hotline suggested to me:

- switch off the digital (S/PDIF) in/out when no digital equipment is connected

- switch off the "power saving" function of your USB port (for this you have to use the device manager)

- make sure you have the latest/correct drivers for your card installed

- check out the M-Audio knowledge-base at http://www.m-audio.com

Good luck!
-joerg
 
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