Working On Understanding

Tadpui

Well-known member
This one started as a Tone Thread submission, messing with my Jazzmaster and '68 DRRI. But I liked the riff and worked it into a song over the last couple of weeks. Finally sat down to finalize the structure and lyrics over the weekend. I made the mistake of making a few tweaks right before mixing it down and posting it here...hopefully they weren't knee-jerk adjustments in the wrong direction. Funny how as soon as I decide to post it, I start getting paranoid and find a bunch of things that I wanna change. Deep breath...

This may be my first song in over a decade with 3 verses and 3 choruses. It's tough to fit all that in without making a song overstay its welcome (for my amateur songwriting, anyways). It clocked in at under 4 minutes though, so I'm happy.

Any comments welcome on structure, guitar/bass/drum tone, vocals, mix, etc.



Lyrics:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/rrj94uhrgan4jbv/Lyrics.txt
 
Mix sounds really good. I like the song. Good tight beat, drums, bass and rhythm guitars sounding good. I dig the melody of the verse. The chorus melody might want a little fine-tuning to make it hookier. Just a suggestion from somebody who has to work hard on melody--it doesn't come easy for me. What I usually do is set up the section to loop and record ten different takes back-to-back, just trying out different melodic approaches until something rises above the rest. The next day, it won't sound so good after all, so I'll do it again.

Good job. Now that you've broken the three verse barrier, I hope you'll post some other tunes for us to hear.
 
I think it sounds really good. Everything has its own place and not trying to walk on everything else. Very tight playing. If I had one crit it would be that it sounds like its needs a little more air up top of the freq. Sounds a little dull up there. Not much, just a little brightness.
 
Great mix - clean clear nice stereo image. Like Brutish said everything has it's place and is super easy to steal - I mean enjoy - all your licks lol...
The drums are really sweet sounding. No problems for me!
 
Mix sounds really good. I like the song. Good tight beat, drums, bass and rhythm guitars sounding good. I dig the melody of the verse. The chorus melody might want a little fine-tuning to make it hookier. Just a suggestion from somebody who has to work hard on melody--it doesn't come easy for me. What I usually do is set up the section to loop and record ten different takes back-to-back, just trying out different melodic approaches until something rises above the rest. The next day, it won't sound so good after all, so I'll do it again.

Good job. Now that you've broken the three verse barrier, I hope you'll post some other tunes for us to hear.

Thanks man, appreciate the feedback. You touched on something that usually drives me towards less conventional song structures. It's tough to come up with a chorus or hook that's worth hearing multiple times in a song. I think that's what usually steers me towards 2 verse/2 chorus with a bridge/breakdown/interlude/complete change of direction in a lot of my songs. I've only recently started writing at faster BPMs, trying not to languish in mopey, dour, morose material as much as I used to. So I'm still adjusting. I tried to mix it up on the 3rd chorus here, but I simplified it because I got tired of trying to double the vocals tightly :D I'll sit down for a session of chorus punch-up soon. Thanks again!

I think it sounds really good. Everything has its own place and not trying to walk on everything else. Very tight playing. If I had one crit it would be that it sounds like its needs a little more air up top of the freq. Sounds a little dull up there. Not much, just a little brightness.

Thanks! The high end has been a consistent problem with my mixes since I started recording. It's been a consistent enough problem that I've taken to adding a default instance of Variety of Sound's Baxter EQ to my homebrew "mastering" chain, with +3 dB at 7kHz to help with that "air". After suggestions on my last clinic submission, I also added another instance with +2dB at 4 kHz to liven up the upper mids a bit. So now you've got me thinking about what I can do while tracking/mixing to give it some air without making it too sizzly. My monitors are relatively bright, so I think that works against me a bit. I've done so little listening to reference mixes, I think I need to spend some time doing that.

Great mix - clean clear nice stereo image. Like Brutish said everything has it's place and is super easy to steal - I mean enjoy - all your licks lol...
The drums are really sweet sounding. No problems for me!

Thanks ido, appreciate the listen! In the unlikely event that I ever write a lick worth stealing, then you're welcome to it :)
 
Things all around sounded good. I like the guitar tone. Bass is just a bit boomy. Maybe if you could notch out something around 100hz or so and then raise the level of the track a db or so, it would sit better.

My biggest reaction is the narrowness of the mix. Maybe I'm just used to mixes with fuller parts. Things sound good, just needs more "stuff" on the edges.

What do you do for drums? I thought they sounded pretty good. Kick was awesome. Snare was too.

Vocals sound great.
 
Sounds clear to me, everything sits well with me. Maybe a tad less bass, add some delay to the lead in the bridge to make it feel a little bigger? Really nice vocals man.

I'm having a hard time finding things to nitpick tonight, you guys need to do better lol
 
Things all around sounded good. I like the guitar tone. Bass is just a bit boomy. Maybe if you could notch out something around 100hz or so and then raise the level of the track a db or so, it would sit better.

My biggest reaction is the narrowness of the mix. Maybe I'm just used to mixes with fuller parts. Things sound good, just needs more "stuff" on the edges.

What do you do for drums? I thought they sounded pretty good. Kick was awesome. Snare was too.

Vocals sound great.

I was looking at my project earlier, and I had pulled the drum overheads narrower than usual. Listening again, that ride cymbal sounds almost straight up the middle. I'll try giving a few more degrees of separation for the overheads, and move the ride off to the right a bit to get it out of the middle. Maybe that'll help spread things out a bit more?

For drums, I'm using SD2 with the custom & vintage SDX, triggered by a little e-kit. This particular sample kit is a Gretsch Round Badge with a Supraphonic snare. As far as processing, I added Kjearhaus Classic Master Limiter to the kick, snare, and toms at about 40% wet to give them all a little more body. And this time around I tried using the Waves L1 on the drum bus. I'm on the fence as to whether L1 adds anything that simply turning up the fader wouldn't, since I"m not driving it hard enough to really cut off any peaks.

Thanks for the comments, I'll sit and see if I can figure out anything I can do to add stereo interest with such few elements in the mix. And as for my mortal enemy, the bass guitar...I'll try your suggestion and see if I can take some boom out of it while keeping it audible. Mixing in a small-ish room sucks for bass!

Sounds clear to me, everything sits well with me. Maybe a tad less bass, add some delay to the lead in the bridge to make it feel a little bigger? Really nice vocals man.

I'm having a hard time finding things to nitpick tonight, you guys need to do better lol

Thanks man, I appreciate it. Agreed on the lead tone. It sounded great in the room, but withered a little in translation to a mic. I bet that simply turning it up a bit will help it, but there's some component to that tone that isn't sitting 100% well with me. I'll have some time this weekend to fiddle with the Tube Screamer a bit more...I just kind of made some hasty adjustments and worked out the solo, then hit record. I'd probably be best served by taking some time to more carefully adjust things and try it again.

Chances are high that I'll really shit the bed on my next mix, so you'll have plenty of ammo for nitpicking in the future :D

And thanks to you both for the compliments on the vocals. It's always my weakest point, I have about zero confidence in my singing. I wasn't blessed with strong pitch control. I doubled both vocal parts, which is new for me. But it seems to help a tiny bit to smooth out the occasional pitch issues. But damn, does it ever accentuate timing issues! I was seriously hoarse the morning after doing these vocals, the lead part is well above my limited range, and I had to do a ton of takes to get the timing down. This is actually my first mix in a long time that I didn't just Melodyne the shit out of. Actually there's no pitch correction in this one, quite a feat for a shitty singer.

Well, I thought that I was done with this one. But as usual the clinic has sniffed out some areas that need improvement and adjustment. Thanks fellas!
 
Pleasant listen. It's not too long - it's like listening to Fleetwood Mac that way.

My favorite segment's the bit with the vocals and drums 2.25 - 2.55. Half a minute of stripped down sounding good. That's a chunk, but not too long either. And the song needs to be long enough to house that segment. You needed room for that guitar solo and the voices at the end again, after all. :thumbs up:

What's the jerky business at the end of the mp3 about?
 
Pleasant listen. It's not too long - it's like listening to Fleetwood Mac that way.

My favorite segment's the bit with the vocals and drums 2.25 - 2.55. Half a minute of stripped down sounding good. That's a chunk, but not too long either. And the song needs to be long enough to house that segment. You needed room for that guitar solo and the voices at the end again, after all. :thumbs up:

What's the jerky business at the end of the mp3 about?

Heya dobro, I always value your comments. I'm becoming a stickler for song length and only making it as long as it needs to be. Few things annoy me more than a song that repeats on and on and on without introducing something new or interesting.

I haven't heard anything odd at the end of the mp3, it just fades out on that last chord and is then silent on my end. What kind of thing are you hearing there?
 
I was looking at my project earlier, and I had pulled the drum overheads narrower than usual. Listening again, that ride cymbal sounds almost straight up the middle. I'll try giving a few more degrees of separation for the overheads, and move the ride off to the right a bit to get it out of the middle. Maybe that'll help spread things out a bit more?
...
Thanks for the comments, I'll sit and see if I can figure out anything I can do to add stereo interest with such few elements in the mix. And as for my mortal enemy, the bass guitar...I'll try your suggestion and see if I can take some boom out of it while keeping it audible. Mixing in a small-ish room sucks for bass!

I know it's kind of common, but I was thinking about either doubling the rhythm guitar track that you have and hard-panning them, or developing a second guitar part and panning them. It was just that one "primary" guitar down the center that I thought made the mix kind of narrow.

And the bass guitar isn't that far off. Just notch out the boomies.
 
Nice 60s garage/power pop sound.
Reminds me of Western Australian band The Stems.
The riff sounds great.
I don't think the chords in the chorus sounds as resolved as the riff.
I like the build after the solo - nice but the solo before it doesn't have enough impact - I get it about going down then building up but it doesn't feel like the right place for the solo - maybe a spoken section or harmonies but not the solo unless it goes from dirty to clean and then hangs for the build or even gets dirty over the build.
Really good stuff that I'd be happy with personally but I don't have the melodic skills or guitar chops to take it further - you, however, do.
 
I know it's kind of common, but I was thinking about either doubling the rhythm guitar track that you have and hard-panning them, or developing a second guitar part and panning them. It was just that one "primary" guitar down the center that I thought made the mix kind of narrow.

And the bass guitar isn't that far off. Just notch out the boomies.

The main riff and the choruses have the middle guitar, as well as doubled/panned guitars. I'll try widening them a bit to see if that helps. I fiddled with the bass last night, not sure if I made progress or not. I should have a new mix by the weekend. Thanks!

Nice 60s garage/power pop sound.
Reminds me of Western Australian band The Stems.
The riff sounds great.
I don't think the chords in the chorus sounds as resolved as the riff.
I like the build after the solo - nice but the solo before it doesn't have enough impact - I get it about going down then building up but it doesn't feel like the right place for the solo - maybe a spoken section or harmonies but not the solo unless it goes from dirty to clean and then hangs for the build or even gets dirty over the build.
Really good stuff that I'd be happy with personally but I don't have the melodic skills or guitar chops to take it further - you, however, do.

That's 2 votes for the chorus not quite being right. Unfortunately that's going to take some pretty major dismantling of the project to alter. That's the trouble to writing as you record...you get pretty entrenched in your decisions as it progresses! I'll workshop a few ideas and see what I can come up with. No promises that I'll change my mind very drastically, it may have to go into the bank for the next project.

As for the solo section, that's another one that is going to be tough. You know how it goes...you listen to your song 1,000 times during tracking and mixing, and it gets hard to envision it any other way. Maybe I should mute the solo while I work on these other aspects of the song and see if anything comes to mind while its gone.

Thanks Ray, appreciate the thoughtful comments. I'll see where this takes me.
 
It's tight man. Sounds great. Only thing I didn't like was the snare was too loud and overly annoying. Although there's a lot of songs like that. It bugs the schit out of me LOL. I didn't have a problem with the chorus or the solo schit. Good work :thumbs up:
 
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