Window/Glass used for Studio

M

moelar2

New member
Ok, so I'm now at the point where I need to figure out what I'm doing for windows. I went to my local Ace hardware store and was floored at how expensive plain glass is. I figured that if Milgard can put out a tempered double pain window for $200, surely the glass alone has to be considerably less than that. I'm sure there are arguments both ways, but this one made superficial sense to me.

Well, I was wrong. A 36 inch by 36 inch tempered 3/8ths thick glass will cost me $160!! I need 6 of these bad boys, at minimum. I simply cannot afford to lay down $800 for this.

All window opening are 36x36; I have 3 windows, including the control room window.

What suggestions do you have??

Thanks...
 
moelar2 said:
Ok, so I'm now at the point where I need to figure out what I'm doing for windows. I went to my local Ace hardware store and was floored at how expensive plain glass is. I figured that if Milgard can put out a tempered double pain window for $200, surely the glass alone has to be considerably less than that. I'm sure there are arguments both ways, but this one made superficial sense to me.

Well, I was wrong. A 36 inch by 36 inch tempered 3/8ths thick glass will cost me $160!! I need 6 of these bad boys, at minimum. I simply cannot afford to lay down $800 for this.

All window opening are 36x36; I have 3 windows, including the control room window.

What suggestions do you have??

Thanks...
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You sure you need tempered?
 
Either laminated or argon-filled will work. If you think tempered is expensive, you're not going to like what you see when you look at laminated. But argon-filled is actually fairly cheap in the world of glass.

I have a friend who knows somebody who got me a quote for a 3X6 foot window for less than $300. One piece is 5/8" thick, the other is 1" thick.

Laminated would have cost about 3 times as much. ouch... laminated is good because there are layers of glass smushed together, which helps stop sound better.

Argon-filled is good (not quite as good as laminated though) because the gas has a different resonant frequency than air. So the glass stops what it can, the sound waves hit the gas, that stops different frequencies, then the second piece of glass stops what it can. Then the sound still has the second window to pass through, and if you make that a different thickness, that'll put you in pretty good shape.
 
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You guys pay an obscene amount of money for glass over there. I got 2 panes 18"x36" one at 12mm the other 15mm for £14.65...that's like $20
 
Actually, you are missing the whole point with this glass question. The POINT is TRANSMISSION LOSS RATING. What is your target TL? If your wall/floor/ceiling has a weak link TL db profile of say 30db at 50 hz, then whats the point of installing a window that will NOW become the weak link of 25db at 50 hz. OR DOUBLE the existing TL in the window(costing mega bucks), only to have a weak link through the existing structure at 1/2 the window rating? :confused: That is the point of RATED assemblies. Otherwise you are spittin in the wind cause you have NO idea what it is you are trying to do. :rolleyes: What you are doing is ...well, to put it nicely, is guessing. BTW, if you use TWO argon filled double panes, that is a FOUR LEAF SYSTEM. Bad idea.
 
Rick, good point about 4 leafs, so what do you suggest? One argon-filled and one laminated?

Why have I seen argon-filled glass suggested on multiple sites?
 
What about closed circuit TV? Those mini cameras and monitors are getting pretty darn cheap!
 
punkin said:
What about closed circuit TV? Those mini cameras and monitors are getting pretty darn cheap!
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True, which might end up happening for my vocal room, but for the live room, nothing beats looking the people in the eye to communicate.
 
My control room has moved to upstairs and the tracking rooms will be in the basement, I am going the camera route. Could put in a glass floor to see the people right below me, but.......
 
SRR said:
Could put in a glass floor to see the people right below me, but.......
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Ha! Now that'd be funny! :) My dad recorded at a guy's house who had cameras rigged up in every bedroom to the control room. His entire house was his studio.
 
SonicClang said:
Rick, good point about 4 leafs, so what do you suggest? One argon-filled and one laminated?

Why have I seen argon-filled glass suggested on multiple sites?
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Listen to what Rick is telling you......... assuming that what you have seen is reccomending these units for studios - why does it matter if multiple sites are wrong........

buy the best commercially made isolating studio windows and there is no gas between the leaves........

I believe you're confusing commercially made exterior insulating windows with studio windows.

Bigin with you existing wall system - compute the mass in one leaf of the wall - match that in glass mass - then add 1/4" to that thickness and make that the other leaf.........

This will exceed (slightly) the TL value of your wall.......... make certain to install the window in an air tight assembly.

Rod
 
Bigin with you existing wall system - compute the mass in one leaf of the wall - match that in glass mass - then add 1/4" to that thickness and make that the other leaf.........
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Whew!!! Thanks for saving my butt Rod :D :D I probably would have stuck my foot in my mouth...which wouldn't have been the first time. But I stuck my neck out on this one and I just knew he'd ask HOW! :rolleyes: :D I'll try to help though. Let the quiotine fall if I have this wrong.

moelar2,excuse me if I was a little overbearing on this. I just hate seeing people do a bunch of work and blow their wad on stuff that ultimately will let them down.
Ok, here's the deal. WithOUT knowing what your whole plan is, and what your existing construction is like, etc etc, its impossible for anyone to give precise advice. Thats due to many possible factors that could undermine even the best of intentions. For instance, there could be many flanking paths in your existing structure, like a wood structural floor instead of concrete slab, doors that also don't match the existing wall transmission loss(hollow core), HVAC ducting, pipes, fireplaces, or any number of things. Also, we don't know anything about your intended use or type of music you plan on recording, or
...well, I think you get the idea. But to give you an idea of some standard rated DOUBLE wall systems, here is a illustration showing some basic wall assemblies. NOTE that those which have drywall WITHIN the airgap, add another leaf, which in effect LOWERS the rating compared to those that are only TWO LEAF systems. A two leaf assembly is considerd a MASS-AIR-MASS system. A STANDARD RESIDENTIAL WALL, with drywall on each face of a stud wall framing, is a MASS-AIR-MASS /two leaf assembly. The BEST bang for the buck systems have ONE of the leafs DECOUPLED. In the illustration, this is done by building TWO framing systems, or two walls, with the outer face of each framing, sheithed with drywall. You would think that the ones with drywall WITHIN the airgap(three and four leaf system) would perform better, right? WRONG. Thats why this stuff is NOT INTUITIVE. There are scientific principles at work here, and intuition won't tell you WHY they work.
Also, one of the other factors is your ceiling and floor. It must also match the walls as well - IF it is a WOOD FRAMED STRUCTURAL floor. Concrete slabs perform much better, but even then, IF your plan is to isolate HIGH SPL instruments such as drums, even concrete floors may need isolation joints at the wall boundary perimeters....or EVEN A FLOATING ROOM... :eek:it all depends on YOUR isolation requirements and existing environment. Thats why I asked what you are trying to do ;) Anyway, hope this helps you understand that simply throwing in a window or two of ANY type, depending on your needs, might as well be a SCREEN DOOR under severe SPL conditions, especially LOW FREQUENCIES...which is a WHOLE SUBJECT UNTO ITSELF... :eek: :eek: :eek: :D in that regard, I can only link you to the stuff I've read, but ask ROD.....he is a PRO STUDIO CONSTRUCTION EXPERT. :) Here is the illustration to give you an idea of how this stuff works.
fitZ
partitions2c_663_146.gif
 
SRR said:
My control room has moved to upstairs and the tracking rooms will be in the basement, I am going the camera route. Could put in a glass floor to see the people right below me, but.......
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Interesting... just wear clean skivvies if you decide to wear a kilt.
 
Opps, I forgot to add this. There is a TON of information here regarding windows. You just have to search through the links. :)
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2125&sid=c7167060261fccdcae93d746f7c27aac
I'm sorry I can't tell you PRECISELY what to use, because of the foregoing reasons. However, I'm sure you can get an idea of what you might need here. Basically, you need a TWO LEAF glass system, either framed in a SINGLE WALL, such as your existing walls, or each leaf in its own framing in a DOUBLE wall, if you so choose to do that. The GLASS THICKNESS is determined by what Rod told you. Within those links, you will find STC of glass thicknesses and system assemblies I believe. Reading is the key here. The information is there.
 
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