I read somewhere that if you use a lower resistance potentiometer it will give your guitar less high frequencies. I currently have a 500K pot on the volume of my SST and it sounds terribly trebley. thought maybe a mod like this might help. Does anybody know why it wouldn't work?
will a 10K pot work for guitar volume?
- Thread starter ndxs
- Start date
Hard2Hear
New member
Wait....
you're talking about a Gibson Chet Adkins SST? Thats just a piezo pickup anyways. It is going to sound trebly. Thats how that guitar sounds and theres not alot of getting around it. I've never heard one that sounded anything but. Even when Dave Matthews used to play them his tone was trebbly and thin. If you cut out the high frequencies of the piezo in that guitar, you will not be left with much sound.
H2H
you're talking about a Gibson Chet Adkins SST? Thats just a piezo pickup anyways. It is going to sound trebly. Thats how that guitar sounds and theres not alot of getting around it. I've never heard one that sounded anything but. Even when Dave Matthews used to play them his tone was trebbly and thin. If you cut out the high frequencies of the piezo in that guitar, you will not be left with much sound.
H2H
thanx for the advice H2H. I jsut finished swapping out the pot for a 10K and I didn't notice a huge change in volume. I presume that's what you mean by diminished signal. and I noticed no difference in tone whatsoever. as a matter of fact, it seems like the tone control does almost nothing to affect the sound at all. weird, huh?
Outlaws
New member
ndxs said:
Look at the capacitor that is going from the tone to the volume pot. Post its number or code that is on its side.
If its a .022uF (223K) then you use a .047uF (473K) as a starting point since you think its way to trebley.
A 10k pot is just a 10k resistor. Meaning it provides 10k of resistance. When the pot is all the way up (on), it lets through the signal but provides 10k of resistance to the pickup. As you start to roll the volume down (off), you induce a ground into the signal so its almost like 'controled short circuiting'. (I made that phrase up)
The reason Humbuckers use a 500k resistor, is becuase they output a lot more than single coil. But you still want a hotter signal, but you don't want the whole thing. A single coil has less output, so it doesn't need as much resistance to get the job done....so they tend to use 250k. But then most new LesPauls use 300k pots, so the humbuckers are getting even less resistance.
That 10k pot is probably letting the almost the whole original signal get through when its on.
But back to the origianl problem, the Tone knob is there to reduce treble. Thats its whole reason for existance. I take it though you have tried rolling it off just a hair.
I don't really know what kind of capacitor it is but I did check several sources online for tone control wiring diagrams and it is wired properly. I believe, from what I've rad so far, that if I try a different value capacitor it will give a more dramatic result. If I'm not mistaken, a capacitor helps to retain the treble frequencies. what if I remove it completely from the circuit, since this guitar is so thin and trebley sounding?
Hard2Hear
New member
That's probably a .022 cap then, like I would expect in a Gibson. If your pot does nothing at all with either 500k or 10k installed, I would guess maybe you have a dead cap. But you should be able to hear an audiblr difference between the two pots anyways cause the 10k should be stuffing up your sound. You sure it's not a 1Meg Ohm pot?
10k ohm is providing more resistance than 500k ohm, though. Those 1000k pots let EVERYTHING get through, and make dark humbuckers sound very very bright.
H2H
10k ohm is providing more resistance than 500k ohm, though. Those 1000k pots let EVERYTHING get through, and make dark humbuckers sound very very bright.
H2H
, by the way, I switched out both the volume and tone control pots for 10K ones. Before that the tone control didn't seem to work so I figured why not. That makes me think you're probably correct about the cap being no good.
Outlaws
New member
The only thing the cap does is a "bypass" of sorts. Basically, the TONE control is a volume knob and the capacitor lets through frequencies depending on the value.
So if you take the cap out completely, you just have another volume knob. But when the cap is there, and you roll off the "tone", you let some of whatever value the cap is, get through. Its kind of like setting a parametric EQ and the Tone knob just rolls off anything above your "preset".
And 10K is LESS resistance than 500K. This is Ohms we are dealing with. Like guitar speakers. 8 Ohm speakers are giving less resistance to the amp than 16 Ohm speakers. That is why you can hook up a 16 Ohm speaker to an 8 Ohm output and be fine, but if you hook up an 8 Ohm speaker to a 16 Ohm ouput, things don't go so well. The speaker is giving resistance. The more resistance the less hard the amp has to work.
Take for example my MXR Distortion +. The OUTPUT control is 10K, but once upon a time they used 47K. They switchback to 10K because the 47K was reducing the overall available output. And infact, there is still more output available by simply lower the 10K even further to a 5K.
Either way, there is no sense in using a 10K on a guitar pickup.
So if you take the cap out completely, you just have another volume knob. But when the cap is there, and you roll off the "tone", you let some of whatever value the cap is, get through. Its kind of like setting a parametric EQ and the Tone knob just rolls off anything above your "preset".
And 10K is LESS resistance than 500K. This is Ohms we are dealing with. Like guitar speakers. 8 Ohm speakers are giving less resistance to the amp than 16 Ohm speakers. That is why you can hook up a 16 Ohm speaker to an 8 Ohm output and be fine, but if you hook up an 8 Ohm speaker to a 16 Ohm ouput, things don't go so well. The speaker is giving resistance. The more resistance the less hard the amp has to work.
Take for example my MXR Distortion +. The OUTPUT control is 10K, but once upon a time they used 47K. They switchback to 10K because the 47K was reducing the overall available output. And infact, there is still more output available by simply lower the 10K even further to a 5K.
Either way, there is no sense in using a 10K on a guitar pickup.
mshilarious
Banned
Hard2Hear said:
The reason why higher resistance pots sound bright is because they have higher resistance to ground, which means that it's harder for high frequencies to bleed off to ground. When a volume control is all the way on, then there is nominally no resistance to signal flow, and (in your case) 10K ohms to ground.
I suspect that the reason your tone control doesn't work is because you installed the 10K volume pot. The high frequencies are shorted to ground through the cap, but only after the resistance of the tone pot. So if the tone pot is still a 500K, then there is less resistance to ground on your volume pot until the tone pot is almost all the way "off". Thus your tone will not change until you have to tone knob on 1 or 0.
If you are looking to kill highs, I'd restore the 500K volume pot, and put a larger cap on your tone pot like Outlaws said - a .047uF or even a .1uF.
thanks everybody. Very informative stuff. I found a cap on an old guitar I have that actually says 473K on it with 50vy under that. Could I assume that is the value you were referring to mshilarious? Anyway, I am going to switch back to the 500k pots and try this new cap later today. I also found a pot that is 100k on that same old guitar. would this be more appropriate for lowering the treble over all? thanx again. I appreciate the help.
mshilarious
Banned
ndxs said:
Cap codes: first two digits (47) plus third digit (3) add zeros = 47000 pF = .047 uF. The "K" is a tolerance rating, +-10%. The 50vy I'm not sure, probably a 50V rating and maybe the y is a temp rating or something.
It might be, but you could still have the problem with the tone pot. I'd change both of them to the same value if that's what you are determined to do.
juststartingout
New member
If you are going to replace the pot, why not put a push/pull in it. You can switch between 2 different caps for you treble cutoff. I used some pots for different pickup combos (http://home.comcast.net/~bonrox/guitars/Callie.htm),
I just recently helped a buddy of mine put in a push/pull for the tone section, which just what you are talking about. It's a simple hookup. Let me know if you need it drawn out, but all you need to do is just replace the cap in your current circuit, with 2 caps and a switch).
I just attached an example for you
I just recently helped a buddy of mine put in a push/pull for the tone section, which just what you are talking about. It's a simple hookup. Let me know if you need it drawn out, but all you need to do is just replace the cap in your current circuit, with 2 caps and a switch).
I just attached an example for you
Attachments
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psychotech
New member
Guitar Volume Control
Guitar volume is controlled by the amount of resistance to ground compared to resistance to hot signal line going to amp. When you turn up the volume on a guitar the pot is adding resistance to the circuit by grounding it by 500,000 ohms. Compared to a straight wired guitar, when you turn it down it should be 500k ohm or so providing a path to ground. This is the current path of least resistance. What is happening when you use the volume pot is you "Load" the circuit with resistance when you turn "Down" the volume. Electricity wants to follow the path of least resistance. So by using higher resistance pots you are passing more hi-mid-lo across the board. Some People use 2meg pots in their guits for this reason. Don't be confused by the way the knob is turned, the explanation is confusing. When you turn "Up" your guitar you are actually just opening up a path to ground in side the guitar that is higher than the impedance of the amp input. Confused? Look at it this way. If you do not use a volume knob what do you have? 100% oms resistance to ground by straight wire=full signal to amp. 500k ohms to ground=balance to amp. To my logic, this equals some loss because the resistance on full volume is not 100%. Everyone's ear is their guide. Let your ear be the judge. High output p-ups=more resistance in ground network in guitar. Ask the pickup dealer if you still have questions. I use a les paul standard classic 1960 reissue with a 500k master volume for both pickups to eliminate les paul disease and a straight wire from the output center pole on the main volume pot directly to the center pole of another 500k pot. by doing this I can vary the resistance of my volume from 0 to 1meg in 2 steps. 0-500 with the second in the chain off. And then increase the second like a tone control just increases the resistance from 500k to 1meg like a tone control with more tonal control and to account for the variance between neck and bridge pickup output and resistance. For the bridge pickup I can use both on full for more power and true output the pickup was designed for and for the neck I can pull down the second one and reduce resistance to match more the output of that p-up. Plus I don't need to worry about 1meg pots that you can't turn without a pair of pliers. Hopefully, this means different tone, hopefully better, fatter and hotter. Controlling highs is maybe more useful in this wiring scheme. You can use the regular tone controls with this setup to bleed highs if you want. I prefer to use no tone controls on my guits. Just attach the tone cap(s) to the hot wire(s) coming from the master volume(s) and you have your tone control(s).
p
Guitar volume is controlled by the amount of resistance to ground compared to resistance to hot signal line going to amp. When you turn up the volume on a guitar the pot is adding resistance to the circuit by grounding it by 500,000 ohms. Compared to a straight wired guitar, when you turn it down it should be 500k ohm or so providing a path to ground. This is the current path of least resistance. What is happening when you use the volume pot is you "Load" the circuit with resistance when you turn "Down" the volume. Electricity wants to follow the path of least resistance. So by using higher resistance pots you are passing more hi-mid-lo across the board. Some People use 2meg pots in their guits for this reason. Don't be confused by the way the knob is turned, the explanation is confusing. When you turn "Up" your guitar you are actually just opening up a path to ground in side the guitar that is higher than the impedance of the amp input. Confused? Look at it this way. If you do not use a volume knob what do you have? 100% oms resistance to ground by straight wire=full signal to amp. 500k ohms to ground=balance to amp. To my logic, this equals some loss because the resistance on full volume is not 100%. Everyone's ear is their guide. Let your ear be the judge. High output p-ups=more resistance in ground network in guitar. Ask the pickup dealer if you still have questions. I use a les paul standard classic 1960 reissue with a 500k master volume for both pickups to eliminate les paul disease and a straight wire from the output center pole on the main volume pot directly to the center pole of another 500k pot. by doing this I can vary the resistance of my volume from 0 to 1meg in 2 steps. 0-500 with the second in the chain off. And then increase the second like a tone control just increases the resistance from 500k to 1meg like a tone control with more tonal control and to account for the variance between neck and bridge pickup output and resistance. For the bridge pickup I can use both on full for more power and true output the pickup was designed for and for the neck I can pull down the second one and reduce resistance to match more the output of that p-up. Plus I don't need to worry about 1meg pots that you can't turn without a pair of pliers. Hopefully, this means different tone, hopefully better, fatter and hotter. Controlling highs is maybe more useful in this wiring scheme. You can use the regular tone controls with this setup to bleed highs if you want. I prefer to use no tone controls on my guits. Just attach the tone cap(s) to the hot wire(s) coming from the master volume(s) and you have your tone control(s).
p
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