Wider guitars?

Vinnydude

Vinnydude

Clunge Monster
I'm really struggling with mixing heavy guitars in the stereo field. I go for the simple setup, different amps/guitars or whatever hard panned for left and right, but they always seem to sound as if they are bleeding into each other and making the centre of my mix really messy, its really pissing me off!!!

SO what am i doing wrong? Why are the guitars mixing with each other so much so that its making my drums muddy?
 
Are you by any chance using fair amounts of reverb and/or delay with the guitar tracks?

I find that with "big" guitar tracks panned to either side...leaving them very (even totally) dry...helps keep them crisp and "contained" in their assigned space.
 
I tried adding a bit of reverb but no, as you say, keeping them dry helps.

I've tried to analyze some of the pro stuff and their guitars seem to have a very precise place in the stereo feild, like you can almost point out 'there is one guitar, there's the drums in the middle with the bass and vocals, and there is the other guitar'

Mine just sound like a mush of mess, even if a completly mono the drums to centre! I don't get it at all!
 
HA! SORTED!!!! To an extent anyway!

I'd cocked my mic placements up when reamping the guitars. I use 2 mics per take and i hadn't got them aligned right, or they tracked out of sync, i dunno. Bet they were out of phase, which also explains why my ears have been getting so god dam tired trying to mix it!

I've managed to repair the damage using a plugin called Phasebug, just a very fine nudge tool basically!

Any tips on getting some good results in the stereo field are welcome though still because its something i always struggle with in my mixes is clarity of stereo and depth.
 
You probably are already doing this, but thought I would mention, most times I put a HPF on guitars so that they are not competing with bass or drums for the same frequencies. Depending on the song, I may EQ the guitar quite radically to give them there own space and seperation. Solo'd they sound like shit, but in the mix they fit well.
 
That would get you a wider sound, but it would be wet. Hard to get a dry sound out of it if you wanted to reamp.

Now this would definately give you a bigger sound, probably wider too!
Monster-Sized-Flying-V-Guitar.jpg
 
I agree with what Washburn said. EQ can really help here. Boost one at the same frequency as you subtract from the other so they don't both compete for the same frequency.

One other thing you could do is play just the 2 guitars, and alternately mute and unmute one. If there is a phase problem, you'll hear it here. I'd do that with both guitar channels. If when you mute one, the overall volume goes up. Something is wrong;). Though it sounds like you've got a good tool for that now.

Good luck!

Jake Weston
 
go for the simple setup, different amps/guitars or whatever hard panned for left and right, but they always seem to sound as if they are bleeding into each other and making the centre of my mix really messy
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If your recording both amps at the same time, Just record one at a time and then pan one hard left and one hard right.
you can also add a series of short delays to widen the stereo field of the guitar tracks.
If your guitars are interfering with your drums, then you need to use some Complimentary EQ techniques
 
If you are using one performance through two amps, that is one of the problems. In order to get a wide stereo image, you need to play the song twice and pan the performances.

If you are panning the two mics on a single amp and then doing the same thing with a different performance, you are really just putting two performances in the middle. Make sure the performances are panned away from each other.
 
Farview said:
If you are using one performance through two amps, that is one of the problems. In order to get a wide stereo image, you need to play the song twice and pan the performances.

If you are panning the two mics on a single amp and then doing the same thing with a different performance, you are really just putting two performances in the middle. Make sure the performances are panned away from each other.
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Thanks for the input man, but i didn't put this in the noob forum for a reason! lol

:P
 
People do all kinds of things like using multiple mics and panning them 100 different places and wonder why it doesn't sound big and wide.

Why don't you post a clip of it. We can guess what you are doing all day, but it might only take seconds of hearing the problem to figure it out. Every ones idea of 'big and wide' is different.

It could just be an EQ issue.
 
For me, two mono tracks, and as has been said more than once, recorded in two separate performances is the ONLY way to go. One panned hard left and the other panned hard right is the best way I've found to consistantly reproduce good sound. In my set-up, I've dedicated one mic for the left and one for the right in slightly different positions; one straight on and one at about a 45 degree angle.

As for EQ, I've found boosting the left by about 7dB with a wide Q at 2.4k and boost right at about 7dB with wide Q at about 3.4k works for me with my amp settings anyway. And a De-Esser plug-in before the EQ is good to tone down any harshness but if that's not an option, then EQ can do pretty much the same.

Also, you may be aware of this already but here's a link to the "Waves" site with many helpful hints.

http://waves.com/Content.aspx?id=5402

Check out tip # 14 on the middle bottom of the page, "Distorted Guitar Presence". It doesn't deal with the stereo separation much but does help with bringing it out front which may give you what you're missing.

Good Luck!
 
De-esser on a guitar, thats a cool idea, i shall give that a blast. Its a very fine line between a sweet tone and a harsh one.

Was it me though, or did that guy remind you of Ben Stiller in Zoolander?!!! lmao
 
Vinnydude said:
De-esser on a guitar, thats a cool idea, i shall give that a blast. Its a very fine line between a sweet tone and a harsh one.

Was it me though, or did that guy remind you of Ben Stiller in Zoolander?!!! lmao
Click to expand...

It ain't just you. I was waiting for him to "strike the pose" at the end. :laughings:
 
That de-esser trick is a keeper.

A de-esser pretty much a one channel multiband dynamics plugin, can't believe i never thought to use it, basically takes control of the harshness of the guitar. I almost feel like an idiot for not thinking to use this before!

This is one that people need to try, works a treat.
 
Yep. Wide gtrs = 2 similar performances panned wide, not 2 mics or amps of the same performance.

2 mics on the same amp, or 2 amps from the same gtr will always have enough signal coincidence that the image will smear and your center will get muddy.
 
Thanks for more input, but as said earlier in the post, this ISN'T on the noob forum :P And if you read some more, it was phase issue!!!

Thank you for the input though :)
 
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