why NOT use a digital mixer?

guhlenn

guhlenn

Oh REALLY????
been thinking about this,and as most people over the years went nuts when asked for opinions on digital mixers, I never went that route. So i have an old soundcraft 24 channel beast, and M-audio 1814. Time to upgrade/expand :)

I could really help my CPU by using the onboard gates compressors and Eq's for drums. I would like a control surface but they're pricey.

I hate cables, things breaking down, more stuff to worry about. Now i hear you thinking 'that is the exact reason to not go that route' The alternative is however getting a berry control surface and ADA 8000 and hooking that up to the existing set. (budgets hey :p )

a DAV BG-1 is in the planning, as well as mic;s. Please dont; remind me that is more important, i know. but i;m kinda stuck on this one. so please, remind me, why is a digtal mixer, for example a TASCAM DM24, EVIL? :eek:


edit; the reason for this misery is ofcourse the root of all evil, named drums. Get a life and drumkit form hell? Nah, who would i make fun of then ;)
 
First, the converters are not as nice as what you would typically use in an outboard situation. Second, the preamps are not quite as nice as many pre's in outboard consoles. Third, the EQ's are not as nice as most outboard and consoles. Fourth, the dynamics section is not quite as nice as most outboard.

However, all of those things have changed over the years. Of all of the "affordable" digital mixers go, I find the yamaha stuff to sound head and shoulders above the others. The conversion is still pretty average, but external clocks do help ( like they do just about all converters). The rpeamps on the yamaha stuff have gotten much better while the others seem to not hvae changed mnuch. The yamaha preamps seem pretty quiet, and very neutral sounding. Not a bad way to be, but I definately prefer character in a preamp for what I do. The EQ has also gotten better, but I still greatly prefer the way most console EQ feels. The dynamics have also gotten better, but they still seems a little too "invisible" to me. The internal FX on the yamaha's however make the yamaha mixers nearly worth their price tag in my opinion. I recently added an 01V96 v2 to my live sound equipment list for smaller cheaper rentals. It has been doing very well and offers a lot of flexibility, not to mention is smalelr and lighter than a traditional console, and allows me to severely scale down my racks. I have also hauled it into the studio for some testing. It did OK there. It certainly is not as nice as my D&R, but then it did not cost well over $100,000 either. What I did love about itis the way it integrated with Cubase SX. It integrated as a control surface much easier than any I have ever tried, and seemed much more intuitive. Of all of the sub $1500 controllers I have tried, I liked the 01v the best. It offered more control, and was much easier to learn. Considering a only paid $1800 for it I find it VEYRY cost effective. I know that most quality control surfaces are just under $1000 (about half the cost of the 01V 96, but then again, this one offers preamps, EQ's, gates, comps, FX etc... as well.
 
I have to say my Sound Craft M Series with the Digital output sounds great for the money. Clean preamps, and good e.q.
 
actually, that was my line of reasoning too (control surface is 800,-, but then, all i get is a replacement mouse). But i figured i must be missing something. I can ditch the soundcraft for 300,- which aint nearly anough to buy an octopre LE, but, one needs to pay for convenience i guess :). I actually like the sound of that console, but man, the power supply alone weighs more then an octopre. and i would like to keep it small. i checked the tascam out. that would be nice. But no way am i gonna find that for 250,- you got lucky my friend ;)

I'll check the yamaha too. did already, but figured the o2r would be the ticket and they are quite expensive. I realise that the console will be mediocre, but in all honestly, the berry is poor and the soundcraft probably too, although i have nothing to compare it with...
 
The biggest bane for me ...... MENUs and MULTI function buttons and knobs.

I cant freaking stand having to wade through multiple pages of menus to find the menu page I need to tweak the multi functional knobs or this setting or that.

I have a DA-7 and it really is a great (older) unit but I cant stand the menus. I am seriously considering trading it for an analog board because for me it is just way more comfortable to know I can look at the real EQ knobs (par example) on a channel and see how they're set and adjust them without scrolling thru a menu or having to look at only one channel at a time in a menu window.....or adjust two at the same time if I want.....or route a track to a buss by pushing 1 dedicated push button instead of scrolling to the routing page.

But if you can deal with menus and multi function buttons the advantages to digital boards are pretty cool ....automation, onboard processing, generally smaller footprint, etc. I have my ADATHD connected with only 3 lightpipe cables instead of a big snake ...which is nice but.....

Maybe its just the way my simple mind works but I find signal routing much more of a pain in the ass dealing with the menus then just pushing a dedicated assign button or repatch an actual cable (which IS a pain in the ass but a different and more comfortable pain in the ass.. lol).


-mike
 
I didn't like the DM24's menus...endless scrolling...and on top of that the sound wasn't anything great although certainly useable. I even owned a Behringer DDX3216 for a while and produced / engineered / mixed an indie rock album using it...the album landed in the top 10 for releases here in Columbia SC the year it was released.

The DDX surprised me for the $$$.

Of course by the time I sold it Behringer was dumping them for $599 (I paid like $1400 for mine). It's a steal at that price. I am not a fan of Behringer much though I must admit...

War
 
Well it all depends on what you're going to use it for....

if you have thousands of dollars to spend on multiple channels of nice preamps and convertors and outboard processing, etc... then getting a digital mixer would probably be pretty silly. also, if menu systems, etc are not for you then definately stay away!

i was not in that position when i purchased my panasonic ramsa da-7 digital mixer a couple years ago. i really dont think you can beat the quality and features (and number of channels) for the price!

16 mic preamps w/ eq & dynamics, etc...
24 channels of digital output (adat litepipe)
automation
motorized faders (wee!)
comprehensive routing/etc/talkbalk mic/meter bridge

for $1000?? (granted i got a good deal)

it may not compete with great rivers and benchmark/apogees, etc... but this board sounds pretty dang good to me, and ive gotten a whole lot more use out of it than i would've one channel of preamp and one convertor unit!

theyre definately not for everyone or the best in all situations, but i dont think i couldve done better. i would definately suggest looking into a used da7--they're a steal! i do not have experience with other digital mixers, but from everything i hear they compare favorably.
 
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I have a DM-24 and I don't find it hard to get around on at all. It took some learning at first, but now it's second nature and seems quite fast and intuitive. Like any piece of gear you just have to learn to get good on it.

That said, it is a personal thing. Gear that seems easy for one person can be frustrating for another.
 
Albert, it was mainly those menus. My brain just didn't like it, sort of like how my brain doesn't like Pro Tools either (I am pretty much a Steinberg guy at this point). So for a new user the DM24 menu scrolling might not be an issue.

War
 
I found paging through menu's to be tedious at first. Once you get used to it though, it certainly is not so bad. It's not a whole lot worse than a lot of DAW setups, and with computer integration you can make menu paging that much easier as well. User Defined Buttons also help alot:)
 
Here my thoughts on a digital console what is the life span of a digital console compared to a analog console how much will it cost me to fix a digital compared to a analog console.
 
Re:

I don't know what you're willing to spend, but if you want to make the investment, I'd recommend a Yamaha O2R96V2. Spectacular product for the current price (~$9200).
 
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