Why Does My Vocals Sound Outside The Mix ?

B

bbeck

New member
Can anyone tell me how to mix my vocal tracks to sound like they are inside the mix instead of sounding like they are singing to a kareoke track ? I do praise and worship music usually smooth type with gritty hammond organ sound. I plan on getting the voice master pre with the rode n t mic. right now I'm useing preamp on the emu 1616m with a shure sm58/57 and a marshall mxl.

Gear used 1616m
motif 8
fantom xr
event asp 8 monitors
sonar 4 pro
 
Well, since you mention a "Hammond organ sound" rather than just "Hammond organ," I'm going to guess that your instrumental backing is all synthesized, making your voice the only "natural instrument" in the mix.

I'll bet that if you recorded an actual Hammond organ, things would be more to your liking.

MIDI and lower-end synthesized sounds just generally sound cheesy. If that's what you must use, consider procuring some higher-quality sounds to go with your voice.
 
I feel you on your comment about the synthesized intsruments but by me Being a keyboardist; what higher quality suonding keyboard can I get other than motif and fantom ?
 
bbeck said:
I feel you on your comment about the synthesized intsruments but by me Being a keyboardist; what higher quality suonding keyboard can I get other than motif and fantom ?
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Someone else is gonna have to answer this question. I'm not a keyboardist.

I just know that, when I started doing recording with Cakewalk 8 years ago, I used the MIDI instruments quite a bit. It was fun; I was COMPOSING! Then I started hearing the cheese...
 
bbeck said:
I feel you on your comment about the synthesized intsruments but by me Being a keyboardist; what higher quality suonding keyboard can I get other than motif and fantom ?
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What instruments are you using? You should try your best to record REAL instruments. I have an antique grand and a hammond in the house. I have good software versions of these, but recording the real things instantly makes the whole song feel more real.

of course, some instruments (like strings) are impractical to record(bring in the orchestra). But yuo get the idea
 
Guys, using a synth to compose isn't going to make his vocals not fit in a mix. Think about how many countless 80's albums were done probably 100% synthed, including drums. This is a matter of mixing not using real instruments or not. First try turning down the vocals, some noobs tend to mix them in way too loud and then wonder why it doesn't sound right. Don't be affraid to turn it down. Also get familiar with how eq works with your vox, adding or cutting the wrong frequencies can make you sound very unappealing. So again, don't be affraid to turn down the vox in the mix, if you need help with eq get back to us otherwise just work with it tell you get it right. Also don't worry about the quality of your synths, thousands of people use those models with no problems.
 
To be fair, a LOT of those 80's synths were reamped.

I agree, though, eq and compression will help you get you where you want to go. However, my suspicion is that the arrangement will most likely be the culprit here.

Sounds to me like everything is fighting for space, so you instinctively bump the voclas to make them stand out. A common issue with keyboard players (I'm one myself and suffer the same problem) is that we LOVE our patches, and tend to select them for the arrangement based upon how they sound solo. That is rarely the best patch for a mix.

Also, because we love our patches, we have a tendency to put too much and too many into the mix.

So, you will neeed to carefully evaluate your arrangement and patch selection. Once that is done, eq and compression will help everything sit in the mix.

Of course, I have made this sound easy - it's not. This stuff isn't aquired when purchasing gear, it's aquired through trial and error and lots of experience. There's a price to be paid.

Good luck!

jonnyc said:
Guys, using a synth to compose isn't going to make his vocals not fit in a mix. Think about how many countless 80's albums were done probably 100% synthed, including drums. This is a matter of mixing not using real instruments or not. First try turning down the vocals, some noobs tend to mix them in way too loud and then wonder why it doesn't sound right. Don't be affraid to turn it down. Also get familiar with how eq works with your vox, adding or cutting the wrong frequencies can make you sound very unappealing. So again, don't be affraid to turn down the vox in the mix, if you need help with eq get back to us otherwise just work with it tell you get it right. Also don't worry about the quality of your synths, thousands of people use those models with no problems.
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One cause of a vocal sticking out in a mix is if it is too dry. Try some different reverb algorythms - small room, plate, etc.

Remember that adding and subtracting reverb has the effect of moving the track backwards or forwards on the virtual soundstage. If the vocal track sounds like they are standing 30 feet in front of the band, adding reverb will push them back. (Or subtracting reverb from the band will bring them forward.)

This is because in real life when someone is standing close to you, you hear mostly the direct sound. But from the other end of the room, you are hearing a much higher proportion of sound reflecting off of the walls, floor, and ceiling.
 
good info but still confused

thanks to everyone who responded. the info was very helpful, but I still have one problem; I thought i had the best keyboards one the market Motif and fantom. Although the fantom is the xa model I only use it for its cutting drums and brass. If these are not the best, WHAT IS????????????????
 
dont know that answer, but Motif's are very nice. i cant imagine that those sounds would be cheesy.

try bringing your vocals down a bit, and trial and error some eq's on your vocals to see if it sits a little better.


Bless.
 
I too have the motif (rack version). I am not a keyboardist, so I don't know what's out there, but I think the motif rocks! It has killer sounds, a huge library and the quality is very high. I don't think it'd be a weak link in your chain. I can't speak for the fantom though... as I said, I'm not a keyboardist so I don't know what it is.
 
bbeck said:
thanks to everyone who responded. the info was very helpful, but I still have one problem; I thought i had the best keyboards one the market Motif and fantom. Although the fantom is the xa model I only use it for its cutting drums and brass. If these are not the best, WHAT IS????????????????
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Never mind all that, we kinda got sidetracked in taking pure guesses and blind swings at what your problem might theoretically be. Without being able to actually hear a sample of what you got, it's like asking a doctor to diagnose you over the telephone when you tell him you have "a pain on your left side".

That said, though, if I had to bet, I'd say that the make/model/type of your instruemntation probably has very little, if anything, to do with it, and that there is at least an even chance that littledog gave you a good solution in telling you to wetten up your vocal track with some reverb. If your vocal is dry (no or very little verb) now, that's probably the solution; especially if your key are putting a bit of their own verb into their sounds.

But there are also a myriad of other possibilities, but without being able to hear what's actually going on it's all just blindly swinging at a pinata that may not even be there.

G.
 
it's like asking a doctor to diagnose you over the telephone when you tell him you have "a pain on your left side".
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...leave it to SS, "the king of analogies"

Glen is like the farts in my butt; all I want is some peace and quiet, instead I get a well-studied long-winded answer...

well, I guess that's why he's the king...my analogies stink...
 
Oh, baby, if you wnt some peace and quiet, the Internet is the last place you should go :rolleyes: .

At least it's good to hear your farts are well-studied. :D

G.
 
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