Why did this delay trick actually work?

LfO

LfO

New member
My results "sound good, so they are good," but I don't have any idea why this effect is so dramatic - anyone able to explain it?

I have two vocal lines in a chorus - the lead and a close harmony part (generally a 3rd to 5th below the lead). I had them both center-panned, and I was happy with the levels (the backup was about 4 dB down from the main). The vocals (and the mix as a whole) were sounding kind of flacid and anemic, so I was experimenting. I put a stereo delay on the backup vocal; passed the left completely dry, and delayed the right side by 25ms (I get similar results between 15ms and 35ms here). Suddenly, the vocals sat in the mix better, sounded fuller, and blended together brilliantly (all this is relative - my mixes are pretty shoddy in the first place).

What's the deal? The left channel is doing EXACTLY what it was before, yet everything sounds so much better!

Is the only lesson here that it pays to experiment? If so, lesson is certainly a valuable one, but I sure would like to know WHY this works like it does. Do I get myself in trouble by thinking "but the left channel is the same," rather than simply thinking within the abstraction of the stereo field?

A secondary question (maybe this will be easier to answer ;) ):
When I solo the delayed track (remember, one side is 25ms later than the other), it sounds like the track is panned left. This is the Haas effect, right?
In the mix, I don't percieve this at all - the vocals just blend into a smooth stereo image. Does the presence of the lead vocal (similar timbre) negate the Haas effect somehow?

Sorry if that was a little wordy - I figure the answer (if anyone tackles it) will be interesting.
 
anything below 30ms is really hard for your brain to pick up on so you'll just hear it as a thicker vocal(one voice), it's an old trick that's used a lot more than you could imagie
 
True. But the dangerous thing about delays that are that short or shorter is if it ever gets summed to mono (it could happen) you can get into comb filtering which can sound REAL bad.
 
Hmmm - I'll have to check that. Any traditional tricks for reducing the comb filtering while maintaining the positive effects?
 
You should also hear a slight panning effect when delaying a signal less than 35 ms. Search Haas effect or precendence effect for more info.
 
True. As the delay increases, the stereo image migrates towards the dry channel. There's a point at which the delay will be perceived as an echo when it gets too long.
 
I knew my wordiness would catch up with me ;)

Coincidentally, I just read about the Haas effect yesterday - perhaps that's where I came up with the idea to try this....

In any case, the Haas effect seems negated in the mix, but its obvious when the track in question is soloed. I find that to be quite interesting.
 
'Haas can be offset by raising the volume of the late one.. A possibility? But I agree, why solo vs in the mix would matter. Maybe they also share some other time effects (verb?) that's averaging it in?
BTW, FYI, FWIW, I've found time-panning is in full effect within the first 1-2 ms. Thus the above guess. :D
Wayne
 
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