Why can't all drummers tune their drums?

M

machine

New member
I sometimes find myself working with a drummer who doesn't tune his/her drums properly. Can anyone recommend a source of info on drum tuning? I think it's pretty complicated, but I want to see if I can't figure out at least the basics.

Thanks!
 
I'd love to go into it with you machine - it's a major section in my manual so I will skip it tonight but you are right - it's more important than what mike and EQ you use
John
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by machine:
I sometimes find myself working with a drummer who doesn't tune his/her drums properly. Can anyone recommend a source of info on drum tuning? I think it's pretty complicated, but I want to see if I can't figure out at least the basics.

Thanks!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think a major part is that most drummers don't think of their kit as "musical".
I tend to look at my situation as a "One man percussion pit for an Orchestra". I tune my Toms to sound very "musical" (i.e., a set of well tuned Tympanis).
The band that I play in is kind of a cross between Neo-Classical and what my younger brother described as "Hobbit Metal"! hahaha

Everything is pretty orchestrated as far as the parts go, so I want it to sound as good as possible.
The only problem that I'm having-is close miced the drums; they sound like crap.

The kit sounds amazing in the room, and I stick an overhead on the kit-and it's AWESOME sounding. Now, I'm just trying to get the same sound by close micing the set, but it's not "translating" well close mic'd.
It might be the size of the toms (15",18", & 20" diameter).
I need to just go ahead and break down and buy some 609's or 421's for the toms.

My Kicks will rip your head off (28" diameter) there's so much low end it isn't funny man!!
I didn't realize when I built the set that they would go that low in pitch.


Or maybe those drummer's are just []BKnuckle-dragging Neanderthals[/B] and just don't get it?! Hahahaha

Tim

ps. Hey John, how does that Beyer M88 sound on toms? (I know where I can pick up some reissues for about $200 each new, and I'm curious)
 
Here's my 2 cents; save yourself a tremendous amount of time and frustration and buy a drum dial (the kind that measures the tension on the head-not the lug screws). They sell for about $50.00 now.
You can tune a set of drums quickly (5 min. per drum, including the kick) and they will be as close to perfect as you can get them. Tune the top head to the relative tension your drummer likes and tune the bottom head to achieve the relative pitch you're looking for. Simply tune all the lugs so the tension measures the same at each lug location on the head. What you will find is that every drum is unique, some (read most) will have one or two lugs that are trouble spots.
Trying to tune drums by ear is a HIGHLY advanced skill and I would bet that only an EXTREMELYSMALL percentage of drummers can actually do it well (I only know one guy personally and I've watched him develop this skill over MANY years. Sometimes it even takes him an hour and a half to tune up a snare). It takes literally years of trial and error (mostly error) to develop your ear to hear the overtone nuances. I've "tried" to tune by ear for many years myself and still don't have it perfected and probably never will.

My opinion; Most drummers (and certainly all non-drummers) shouldn't even ATTEMPT to tune drums by ear. It is NOT a skill that can be easilly or quickly learned. Sure, you can follow someones instructions but if you don't have a highly developed "ear" to KNOW what you're hearing, you'll simply never "get it". The drum dial has got to be one of the best investments I've made in my gear collection.

Thanks for considering my thoughts on this. I have been a professional gigging and recording drummer for years, and have a home studio as well. Believe me, I've spent a lot of time trying a lot of things. I highly reccommend it. Mark
 
great link gear junky, theres a lot to learn for people there...
i don't think that drummer shouldn't know how to tune their drums by ear because you're gonna know exactly how you want your drums to sound, and if you play enough you know when it's not right just by hearing it once. And if you're at a gig, and a lug is coming lose, you're not gonna have time to run and grab your drum dial between a song and check the tension on your lugs....
you grab a key and you find that damn lug that's ruining your sound. I think using it as a beginner is good, but eventually you gotta be able to just hear it. Like guitar players who can tune their guitars without tuners, after a while they just know, and i think that drummers should be the same way.


ss
 
QUOTE FROM TUNING BIBLE> "Some of the best drums on the market are being intentionally manufactured with lugs that cause resistance. The resistance induced by the lug itself can fool a gauge that measures torque. Further, devices that measure tension can and are fooled by thicker versus thinner heads. Especially when you consider the film used is not always exact in thickness from edge to edge, due to manufacturing issues. And, finally, if you've spent much time tuning by ear, you know that it's not uncommon to have a few lugs feel loose compared to others, it's the pitch at each lug, NOT THE TENSION OR TORQUE that counts."

http://www.drumweb.com/profsound.shtml

Interesting opposition for the Gauge.
 
Having played for over 30 years, I've put much thought and effort into tuning. Drum tuning is very subjective and very difficult. Each drum has personality and attitude - on occasion they may cooperate and "allow" themself to be tuned, but most of the time drums will not coorperate. Add to that the different ambiance and reflections in each studio, club, bar, festival, etc. and each set-up provides different tuning challenges.

In addition, many drummers, in particular if they are younger, do not have the skill, knowledge and in some cases desire to make the drums sound their best (playing drums is fun, but "learning about drums" is not). I think Tim Brown is very correct that many drummers do not consider the drums as a melodic instrument (I try to approach the drums as much from a melodic concept as a rhythmic concept - it helps that I also play keyboards and guitar - so I can "think" melodically).

The Drum Doctor is a very good source of information and should be mandatory reading fr all new drummers (i've learned a few thinks from that site even after all these years - or at very least I've been reminded of things I'd forgotten).

I very much agree with markr - a Drum Dial is a good investment to get even tuning (although you still need an ear to determine what is the correct "note").

machine - my best advice to you is - find better drummers to work with!!!
 
Here is how I get great sound of my toms, after you perform these steps to get the "basic" sound, you can tune up or down to your liking.

1. Put the top and bottom skins on and hand tighten the lugs.

2. Make a fist and push hard on the center of the head, and evenly tighten drum head until all the "wrinkles" are gone. Do this for the bottom and the top. (You can now use your drum key.)

3. Lightly tap the drum head on the edge around each lug until the tone sounds all the same around. Again, do this for the top and bottom heads.

4. Now, evenly tune each tom to the sound of your liking.
 
sessionselect said:
Like guitar players who can tune their guitars without tuners, after a while they just know, and i think that drummers should be the same way.
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I agree that this is a valuable and necessary skill. But the reason that many drummers can't tune drums is because it is HARD!

There is only one way to tune a perfect "E" on a guitar. It is either in tune or out of tune. A guitar has one knob per string that does the tuning. Drums typically have anywhere from 6 to 10 lugs per side. Each lug works in concert with the others, so adjusting one often means adjusting others. Try tapping the head near one lug, then tighten the lug directly opposite from it and tap again and you'll hear what I mean.

In addition, there is no single "right" way tune drums. Some guys tune the bottom head higher than the top head, some lower, some the same. Some tune different drums at intervals of 4ths, or 3rds or 5ths. Then there are those little tricks, like detuning one lug on the batter head of a tom, or detuning the lugs on the resonant head around your snares to minimize snare buzz.

That being said, the Professor Sound link is great. Drum tuning is hard, but not rocket science either. With time and practice, it isn't so bad.
 
oh yeah, don't get me wrong, it's hard tuning drums but i don't think that you can just use a dial that does it for you and expect to get better....maybe use it to learn how to tune maybe....
i have to admit though, i've never used one of these and i'm quite curious as to getting one so i can get it "machine right" before a big show or session.....but i still want to learn and will learn how to do it myself and i won't let no stinkin machine be better than me!

ss
 
Drum dials are a tool - but they don't replace good ears. When it comes to music - always trust your ears!!!!

That being said, I think there are two main situations where a drum dial comes in handy:

1. When replacing heads - it can get you even tension pretty fast. This comes in handy in a drum shop (where you are always putting heads on drums) or in a studio - (where you may swap heads betwen sessions) or on tour (where you may change heads every few shows)

2. When bringing drums into a new venue (in particular if you're going from a cold outside to a warm inside or warm to cold). In particular in a club where the stereo system is blasting so loud you can't hear a thing - or at a private affair where you are not allowed to make noise prior to playing.

In either case you need to know what the proper tension is for each drum or even tension means nothing.
 
mikeh said:
2. When bringing drums into a new venue (in particular if you're going from a cold outside to a warm inside or warm to cold). [/B]
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i thought plastic heads negated this, is there something th emanufactuers arnt telling us?
 
Plastic heads reduce the change in heads to temperature change significantly but they do not eliminate the effect entirely.

I can only attest to my personnal experiance - but having played thousands of gigs over the last 35 years (and yes I actually played calfskin heads - which we called "skins" not heads - back in the 60's) I know for a fact that temperature effects drum tuning - even with plastic heads.

Plastic can expand and contract - and the shells can be affected by temperature which also effects tuning.
 
yep yep yep, tuning drums ain´t that easy. It is not like a guitar, where you have just one lug and then you raise or lower the pitch, you have between 6 and 10 lugs that interact with each other just one one side of the drum. Of course there are other elements that can change the sound like the hoopd, bearing edges and intriacies of the wood that all come together to create the unique overtones of a drum´s sound. Then you have to adjust the pitch relationships between ALL the drums and adjust their decay, sustain etc. It is really complicated if you give it a though now.......:o
 
I don't play drums but...

Tuning a drum is probably very much similar to tuning a guitar...you learn how to tune your drum or guitar, cause they're all different. I can't tune all my guitars the same way, because of how they're built and so on...and I have to tune them according to the key I'm going to play. bla. bla. bla...
 
sorry rogga but the only thing tuning a guitar and a drum have in common ist that you turn a key and adjust the pitch, but the technique involved is far more complicated with a drum than with a guitar.
 
I've always tuned my drums by ear, and it's taken a lot of trial and error but I actually like doing it.

I don't use a drum dial and don't put any faith in them. I knew Bob Neary the inventor of the drum dial. He came to my house in the mid 70's to test out a prototype on my set. It doesn't find the sweat spot for you.

Believe it or not I find it much easier to tune drums with calf heads than plastic.
 
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