Hi, following on from my limiting thread I was just wondering whether people always use multiband compression on their final mixes, I'm not talking about using it to fix mix problems, rather using it to add density and excitement to a track, I was trying to decide if I like the immediate and overall excitement multiband Compression can give a track compared to leaving it off and having the excitment of having a more dynamic track, any opnions welcome.
Who Uses Multiband Compression every time?
- Thread starter benage
- Start date
LogicDeLuxe
www.abmischung.de
It's probably most used on radio stations, and it's the main reason they usually sound that bad, imho.
Of course, the best way to get the dynamics you want is to do it during mixing whenever possible.
I rarely use compression on the bus at all. Though speaking of mastering, there are some things I did to fix a mix.
For example, I once had applause claps like 20 dB louder than everything else on the final seconds of a song which contained mostly long notes and wasn't very dynamic. A multiband compressor with a rather low threshold worked very well in this situation to tame those down.
If you want to use compression to enhance the dynamics, I would use some technics which gives you more control over the process: Side chain sub band compression. If you want to enhance the kick drum, it works like this. You filter out the base frequency which would be somewhere around 60 Hz and get rid of all the other frequencies, feed the level detector with it and set the attack slow enough so the punch goes through. Then apply the compression on up to some kHz. Other rhythmic instruments can be enhance in a similar matter. With non rhythmic instruments, sub band expansion on the mid or side channel might help.
Of course, the best way to get the dynamics you want is to do it during mixing whenever possible.
I rarely use compression on the bus at all. Though speaking of mastering, there are some things I did to fix a mix.
For example, I once had applause claps like 20 dB louder than everything else on the final seconds of a song which contained mostly long notes and wasn't very dynamic. A multiband compressor with a rather low threshold worked very well in this situation to tame those down.
If you want to use compression to enhance the dynamics, I would use some technics which gives you more control over the process: Side chain sub band compression. If you want to enhance the kick drum, it works like this. You filter out the base frequency which would be somewhere around 60 Hz and get rid of all the other frequencies, feed the level detector with it and set the attack slow enough so the punch goes through. Then apply the compression on up to some kHz. Other rhythmic instruments can be enhance in a similar matter. With non rhythmic instruments, sub band expansion on the mid or side channel might help.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
My opinion is if you have to ask us what you like, you are in big trouble
. You need to develop your listening skills if you want to make mixes you like.There is no reason why you should have to or even desire to wait until the 2mix to develop that "immediate and overall excitement", either. Develop the skill to finish the mix *in mixing* - that's why it's called *mixing*
- and you won't even need to try and fix it in the 2mix. (BTW: There's nothing wrong with using an MBC before you mix down, too. One does not have to wait until it's too late.)I'd like to point out (yet again) that MBCs didn't even come into existence until the early '90s. Not only were things just fine before then, but since then the general concensus has been that the overall sound quality of music has declined. I'm not necessarily blaming the use of MBCs on the 2 mix for that decline. I'm just pointing out that they don't seem to have helped very much to make things any better.
Mix during mixing. If your 2mix doesn't "pop", don't fix it there, go back and fix it in mixing. Your overall general results will be better for it. Wait until pre-mastering to finish your mixing and you'll hit a wall in your capabilities you can't climb over sooner than later.
Just one person's opinion. I'm sure you'll get a bunch of hobbyists coming on here to disagree with me
.G.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Personally? I think the overuse of maul-the-band compression and input overdriving (tracking too hot) are the two biggest "rookie earmarks" of all time.
If I get mixes in that ask for MBC to make them "more exciting" I usually contact the client and suggest a remix.
I'm certainly not "anti-MBC" -- Actually, I appreciate the ease of use of the average MBC plug. It used to be much more difficult (hooking up several compressors in line with a stereo crossover and going from there) and time consuming. Still, it's a very, very rare occasion that MBC is anything more than a band-aid for a bad mix.
If I get mixes in that ask for MBC to make them "more exciting" I usually contact the client and suggest a remix.
I'm certainly not "anti-MBC" -- Actually, I appreciate the ease of use of the average MBC plug. It used to be much more difficult (hooking up several compressors in line with a stereo crossover and going from there) and time consuming. Still, it's a very, very rare occasion that MBC is anything more than a band-aid for a bad mix.
jcmastering
New member
My perception on this is completely opposite. Compare the unprocessed mix to the multiband compressed one at equal loudness. Make sure you are making the mix sound better , if not , let it be.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I'm starting to think multiband compression sounds like crap. When I turn it off the mix sounds empty to start with but at the same time my ears feel like thev've been given a rest. with careful mixing I can get it so when I turn the multi band on it dosen't really change the relationship between the instruments it just kind of fills in space between the instruments and notes which i'm not sure is a good thing. part of what I liked about multiband was a tonal change to my music but I worked out a while ago I can achieve a similar effect with E.Q. mainly taking out some of 500hz to 1k range. When its on, logic's right it does sound like i'm listening to a radio and when I turn it off it sounds like the music/vocalist are in the room and that must be a good thing. I hate the fact when I turn it on half the punch goes out of the drums and the impact of crescendos is halved and cymbals sound like shit. I've decided now I'm going this route theres no point then limiting it to death so I'm just going to use a limiter to catch the odd stray peak the old school way, and to be honest when I bounced a test to mp3 it wasn't as quiet as I feared, i do use limiting on my kick drum anyway to fatten it up so i think that helped.
R
RAMI
Guest
I'm starting to think that tractors are crap. I never learned how to drive one, but tried anyway. Damn thing ran right into a tree. They're ALL crap, in that case.
R
RAMI
Guest
First of all, loosen up. I guess I have to plaster smileys all over a post to not offend anyone.....Like a laugh-track that tells people when something`s funny.
Second of all, regardless of your experience or knowledge, to make a blanket statement like "I'm starting to think multiband compression sounds like crap" and not expect people to call you on it puts your experience and judgement into question. It's a tool that only would sound like crap if it's not used properly. Now, had you said, I think <Company Name>'s multiband compressor sounds like crap, that would be another thing. But, I'm sure there are many mixes out there using MBC that DO sound good. They were just used properly.
My tractor example still stands because it's perfect.
(no smileys)
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
Just because it's multiband it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to engage all of the bands. Use only the parts of the frequency spectrum that need to be controlled. If you're using all of the bands you may be better off with a regular comp.
I don't really know that any comp adds "excitement", at least not as I define it. OTOH a multiband upward expander might.
I don't really know that any comp adds "excitement", at least not as I define it. OTOH a multiband upward expander might.
Basically though in their uses and applications, types of setup speed, and gains in one direction vs losses in another are the same whether multi-band or not -plus or minus splitting it up on frequency.
Yes, exactly. Density vs more dynamic. The at first cool factor of 'in your face' (+/- ) vs dynamic and 'open'. We could go on for days on that one alone.. In fact that is likely The #1 in the subject isn't it.
But that's not even a 'multiband factor -it's speed and threshold.
.. and here we have the final band make-up gains on the multiband doing it's 'eq thing -which it can do (or not do) whether it's even compressing or not.
We ok?
There's that 'fast release factor (sound). Perhaps that.
Thanks for your input, I rembered last night after posting I could get the punch back in the drums by increasing the attack time to 40ms so scratch that one. listening again to my different test versions this morning I'm quite liking the 'in your face' compressed version aswell now - maybe I was a bit hasty posting last night. The excitment I was talking about was just that 'in your face sound' I was interpreting the fact it seems like there's more going on as being more exciting, maybe it was a bad choice of words.