Which Reel to Reel Recorder is Right for Me?

broken_arrow

broken_arrow

New member
Greetings,

I've been studying and practicing music production for a while now and I think I'm ready to move from digital to tape. I've worked with tape on a few occasions, and its just more appealing to me as a craft (but if your reading this, I don't really need to explain myself here, you know what I'm talkin about ). Anywho, I'm looking for a solid reel to reel to track on. I've always wanted a Tascam 38, I'm a big Tascam fan and it seems like a solid entry unit. My concern is the increasing age of all reel to reel recorders, and the availability of parts for repair when they eventually break down.

So my question is, should I look for a 'newer' reel to reel machine as opposed to a cool lookin vintage one? What would be one of the "newest" (latest produced models) I could look for? And finally, what would be some good entry level 8-track recorders to learn the trade on? All info, tips, and advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks a lot guys!

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To my knowledge, the Tascam TSR-8 would be the newest 8 track recorder on 1/2" tape that Tascam made. I don't own one but it gets a lot of praise on this forum. I would recommend thus recorder if you aren't bothered by the fact that its a two-head machine.
 
Functionality aside, these machines are like cars. The age is much less relevant if it has been lightly used, well maintained and looked after.

I got a 22-2 that was literally used once or twice. I know this first hand. It was always kept in a dry store and it really really shows.


Just try to be aware of common faults on certain machines and make sure you get a good look at the wear on the heads.

Availability of parts would be my main concern too, but that's simple. If you see an ad for something you like, get on google or ebay and try to find parts for it.

Pretty much anything I buy, I google it with the word 'fault' or 'problem' first. I mean, you'll always find something, but this can be really revealing about common flaws.

Are you in the UK?
 
The 38 would be a good place to start and have analog VU meters if that's important to you, but is of relatively modern (20-25yrs now) vintage as opposed to an 80-8. The TSR-8 is highly praised in these parts as well, only drawback is two vs three heads, which makes DIY calibration a little more difficult. The 80-8 has a reputation for its sound, but is getting a little longer in the tooth. The Tascam machines though are well supported, both with parts from Teac USA as well as a fairly extensive knowledge base and good documentation.

Tascam parts support is also very good. An Otari might be a choice as well. I don't know how parts support is now that they closed their US parts office (which seemed more like a US parts guy...and assuming you are in N. America) and Otari parts were rather steep in price.

You also need a board, there are lots of Teac/Tascam boards that would go fine with these machines. Note that most of them also have RCA rather than 1/4" phone, which is helpful as the 38 and TRS-8 (AFAIK) have RCA I/O.

You could also look for a Tascam 388 if you wanted to stick with cheaper tape, although heads aren't availabe. You also see the Fostex 1/4" 8 tracks a lot. However, e.g. I have two model 80s that I need to make one decent machine out of. they don't have quite as robust builds and parts support isn't, although I've seen after market belts on ebay. note that terrysrubberrollers does after market roller repair which is a fine option (he did a roller for me)
 
In a nutshell: The 80-8 has a beefier but less sophisticated transport than the later Tascam 8 tracks. It's motors can be rebuilt. It's electronics are a generation older as well and not quite as nice sounding to some folks. The 38 & TRS 8 have better specs and smoother transports. The big caveat is that neither have motors that can be rebuilt.

P.S. 80-8's with vari-speed on them have the same non-repairable capstan motor as the 38.
 
Since this is primarily a pre-owned market, we can recommend particular machines, but what’s most important is that you get something in good condition. I prefer the Tascam TSR-8 to any other ½” 8-track, but if you find a 38 or 48 in mint condition its better to go with one of those than a worn out TSR-8. I also prefer ½” 8-track to any other format, but likewise if you find a great condition 8-track on ¼” like the 388 or Fostex R8 or 16 on ½” like the Tascam MSR-16 it's better to go with one of those than a worn out ½” 8-track of any kind.

And this all depends on how long you can wait for a good deal to come along. If you can take your time you’ll get what you really want. Just keep in mind since we can’t just walk into a store and buy something new anymore the old recommendations from those of us who’ve been at this for many years have changed from recommending a particular machine to recommending whatever is in best condition of the choices you have. That being said, generally speaking the smart money is on Tascam products because their parts support is so good, while others are poor to nonexistent. My TSR-8 is now 20 years old and running like new.

The biggest weakness on the TSR-8 is the reel table assembly (two of them of course). They’re not as well made and often need replacing with modified reel tables from the 30-series machines. IMO the TSR-8 is worth that trouble and has a good rep in the field for durability and performance in about every other detail, but just so you know.
 
Wow, there's been some great, very useful advice shared on this thread already, thanks a lot guys. Here's my next question, how do I tell if the heads are worn out or in good condition? Is there some tell tale signs to the condition of tape heads?

And second, what are you thoughts on vintage (1980's) Tascam mixers? Meaning, M-30, M-35, Teac 5, and larger ones such as the M-208 and M-216? They don't supply phantom, and I heard the EQ's are not that great, but I still want one.. probably cuz I think they just look so damn cool 0_o Which I know is the worst basis to ever buy audio gear on, but they would also interface well with a Tascam reel to reel with their RCA direct outs. Thoughts?
 
broken_arrow said:
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And second, what are you thoughts on vintage (1980's) Tascam mixers? Meaning, M-30, M-35, Teac 5, and larger ones such as the M-208 and M-216? They don't supply phantom, and I heard the EQ's are not that great, but I still want one.. probably cuz I think they just look so damn cool 0_o Which I know is the worst basis to ever buy audio gear on, but they would also interface well with a Tascam reel to reel with their RCA direct outs. Thoughts?
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Model 5 is the oldest. It is modular and has the least amount of eq & routing. The 35 is also modular but with sweep eq and very good routing for up to 8 tracks. M-30 isn't modular & is the update of the old model 3. Sweep eq added. All have transformers on the front end. All can be hot-rodded but the modular models are the easiest to work on. No experience with the other units mentioned.
 
+1 on the modular mixers like the model 5. two screws, the front folds down, pull out a card, fix whatever needs fixing. BTW, "it just looks damn cool" was how I felt about the M-520....
 
I've been using the model 5 and 80-8 extensively (and exclusively) for several years now; the EQ limitations can be frustrating at times, but also eye-opening. really gets you to thinking as they did in the '60s & '70s and making some unusual decisions that sometimes result in cool and unpredictable results. or just gives it that special "why did they do that?" sound that you find on a lot of old records.

the 5 has a hefty, darkish sound, a bit lo-fi or muffled, kind of grainy. i used to have the one that came after (M-30?), and that one was a bit more well-rounded but i preferred the mojo of the 5 and understood it a bit more intuitively. I have used the mic preamps a lot on my first couple albums but tend to avoid them lately.

many will disagree, but i have to add (once again!) that i prefer the 80-8 over the later models. if you're looking for an older sound, i think it's easier to achieve it. that said, it's even easier on a deck like an ampex 440, but that's a whole other ball game.

i've been interested in replacing the 5 for quite some time now, but have not found a suitable replacement. i tend to avoid gear made after the '70s, and the 5 was really one of the first mass-produced, affordable mixers.
 
I'd recommend the Fostex R8. Nice sound, cheap tapes (1/4") and very easy to use. The transport is a bit plastic so give yourself the time to test it.
If you go for a 1/4" then just remember to don't put your bass and drums anywhere near more gentle sounding tracks.

For the Tascam 38 I'm waiting for mine to be repaired - had it working for two hours then the capstain motor burnt down. From what I could tell it sounds warm and beefy.
 
broken_arrow said:
Wow, there's been some great, very useful advice shared on this thread already, thanks a lot guys. Here's my next question, how do I tell if the heads are worn out or in good condition? Is there some tell tale signs to the condition of tape heads?
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It's a bit tricky to show how to evaluate condition of tape heads online. Even photos, the glare, shadows and reflections make it hard to tell for sure. One of the best clues are if the stationary guides on either side of the heads have significant flat spots. That's a good indication of the hours the machine has seen and thus how much wear is on the heads... unless the heads have been replaced with new ones. But when people go to that much trouble they often replace or at least turn the guides as well. The problem is depending on the make and model the heads don't all look the same when new. Some have a pronounced peak, some more a gentle curve and some even have a somewhat flat spot on the peak. Nonetheless a seller should post close-up photos of the heads because severe wear will be obvious in a photo.


And second, what are you thoughts on vintage (1980's) Tascam mixers? Meaning, M-30, M-35, Teac 5, and larger ones such as the M-208 and M-216? They don't supply phantom, and I heard the EQ's are not that great, but I still want one.. probably cuz I think they just look so damn cool 0_o Which I know is the worst basis to ever buy audio gear on, but they would also interface well with a Tascam reel to reel with their RCA direct outs. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

200-series mixers aren’t bad at all! With one exception… the M-224. It was more an afterthought and is almost too noisy/hissy for recording. It needs a better power supply. They used the same one from the M-216, which really doesn’t cut it for the 8 extra channels. The signal-to-noise ratio is much worse using 16 channels of an M-224 compared with 16 channels on the M-216. Strange, but true. :confused:

I still have an M-216 I bought new about 1990 and an M-208 I bought later. The EQ is fine, but a little goes a long way. The 200-series are light and pretty small footprint for the channels you get. And yet the knobs aren’t at all crammed together. They’re almost a pleasure to maintain and mod, as you don’t risk back injury when moving them around. ;) As I said they’re not bad stock, but they are a tweakers dream for modding and can be improved far beyond factory spec if you’re into that sort of thing. But again, I would avoid the M-224.

300-series are quieter with more routing options and better sound IMO, but heavy and take up a lot more space. I like the M-320 and M-312 and I’ve gone back and forth debating with myself whether to get one of those or not… and gone back and forth with having the money one week and not having the money the next week to buy one.

I like mid to late 80’s vintage Tascam stuff more than the earlier or later stuff.

Speaking of the M-216, this one has been sitting on eBay at $225.00 and reasonable shipping cost with no takers for quite some time. Are y’all crazy or what? This is a steal. $325.00 would be more like it. I have no idea who this seller is in case you’re wondering.

Tascam M-216 16 Channel Mixer with EQ Sub Console Sound Board Unit | eBay

The other ebay sellers of 200-series boards are delusional, perhaps in late stage of untreated syphilis. One in particular just plain gives me a headache with his prices for everything. He has or recently had a dbx 150x listed at $250.00. I don’t think so. That’s about $100.00 higher than the street price when they were new, and they normally go for around 20 to 30 bucks, maybe $50.00 during a full moon.
 
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