which computer,,how much ram?and so forth and what not

M

mojovoodoo

New member
i know nothing of computers other than what i do at my job,and what i am slowly learning,i am not claiming complete ignorance,yet i would l;ike to start building a studio computer,i have several suggestions from different people,such as how much memory,how much gigabytes,but none from any seasoned computer engineers(is this even an expression,or a faux pas?)i have so many standard questions,for i am a beginner at the computer recording ,though i have done it at friend's house,but all my digital experience comes from owning the boss br-8,i snagged one once it came out and have spent several hundred hours(so it feels anyway)down time on this machine,i have taught myself the benefits from midi sequencing,mainly becuse i don't have a drum kit,and i do like things to have meter,blah blah,aaa-aanywayyy,i will buy all the necessaries with my 2000 tax return cashand i would like to have under$2000 budget,like,does brand name make a differece?or just any computer that has mac?or windows,i know that the plug ins make all the difference,i want something closest to the hot analog 2 inch tape sound(is that a realistic expectation?)
 
Expecting 2" tape sound out of computer is sadly, not a possiblity.

For under 2K you could get yourself a decent system. What soundcards have you looked at, how tracks to you need to record at one time? What equipment do you currently own, do you need a mixer or a soundcard with built-in preamps etc?

Can probably provide some more feedback with this info.

Generally:

-Mainboards based on the Intel 440BX chipset are a proven, stable product. The I815 does look not too bad though.

-7200RPM drives, 2 of them - one for your operating system, and one just for audio data.

-128MB SDRAM is a good amount.

-Celerons are popular, as is overclocking. I'll go against the grain here though. Get a PIII 800+ and be done with it. This will still fit into your <2K budget.

Provide some more info, someone will help.
 
woah,that is some serious info,i guess i'm going to need to hear it in more layman terms until i get the proper lowdown on everything as far as computer.you see,this is as of more recent.my brother knows so much about computers,but he is not into recording.he only tells me that i need 250 mb ram minimum,yet when i read about certain sound cards and multi track recording,they say 64 mb,is this something i need to be installed specialized specifically?as far as what i have,it's like i am starting from scratch,a boss br-8,which is the most basic version of the roland vs line,which i don't think it would do me any good to link it up with my future computer projects,except maybe previous recordings,i need a mixer,i need pre amps.i have one cheap audio technica mic,i have a boss dr-5 ,drum sequencer,a boss dr sample,a terribly cheap aiwa digital keyboard(it's useless)so ,you see,i have nothing,and would make some bad mistakes if i were to purchase uninformed.so,when you say 2k,are you talking about just the computer alone,or the 2k is all the plug ins and soundcards,and equipment?i'm going to get a seperate thing for internet and web,probably web tv,so the computer i get will be dedicated 100% to recording,all musical applications,i will only need to record one track at a time,because i will be playing all the instruments,i eventually will buy a drum set,to have the benefits of live drums and the machine,so ,obviously,a decent mic,and the best way to eq the drums live through a good mixer,a basic no frills mixer,but i do think drums are so important,i was told that i could spend 200$ and get a real good recording mic,i will want to eventually record people live in the room,like say; bass,guitar and drums live at the same time,perhaps with seperation,although i am a big fan of the way they recorded rock and blues in the 50's,i am sorry i tend to babble,but i love having unlimited tracks,but i could live with 8 or 12 or 16 max,i guess what i need to do is take each product you mentioned and research it,until i am better informed,but anything that you can tell me or suggest i would so much appreciate it,now that you know that i am beginners level with the engineer aspect ,the production,the computer knowledge,so just go slow,if you can(tee hee,sounds like a virgin)thanks for all your input and info,and i would welcome anymore you have to contribute--john abella(mojovoodoo)
 
Hey mojovoodoo,

One thing I didn't mention was a soundcard. The <$2000 may or may not include that, I'm assuming your in US dollars.

If you plan on recording drums in the future, you are going to want a sound card with 8 inputs. As well you will need a mixer to boost the gain of the mic signals for output to the input of whatever multi I/O sound card you buy. Aardvark, Gadget Labs, Midi-Man, MOTU, Digi etc. there are many out there.
 
emeric,is it possible to just purchase one mixer,and use it for all applications(drums,vocals,whatever else)i know that mackie makes boards with pre amps,and have heard nothing but good things,yet,well...umm...ok,seems as though if i want 2k for everything,i might sacrifice quality here and there.tell me,where is it possible to sacrifice quality for economy and where is it important to make sure i have strong equipment?a friend had told me that i can be economical with everything except for the computer stuff,that as long as i make sure i make the right choices on sound cards,i will inevitably get the sound i want.is he correct?the more i put any thoughts towards this,the more flustered,and bombarded with doubts i get.
 
Yo Mojo, I am in the research stage of going from my vs880 to computer. What I have found is that the Digi001 and a new computer will run me about 2K. I already have some equipment that I will be abel to use with, including a decent mic. With the digi, you can get away with not having to buy a mixer because the interface has built in pre's. If you are starting from scratch with everything, and you want to get some decent recordings, you may need to up your budget a bit. Check out the digi001 website. You can even order a free 1 hour demo video tape. My only contemplation I have is that the software is written for both mac and win. The delema is that some of the plug-ins and additional software that can be purchased is not written for windows. I am still debating because I know that macs are good for recording audio, but they are also more expensive. Good luck
 
memory

One thing I forgot to add. Don't go less than 128mb. I am looking at 256mb. I would also recommend SCSI hard drives. They are much faster than others.
 
Mojo,

The mackie mixers are good. I have the 1402 and use it for drums and guitars, vocals etc. I also use a ART MP tube pre on occasion. There are lots of other expenses that will put you above the 2K mark.

-Mic's (for just yourself, a 57 and a decent condenser would be a good starting point. $400-500. For drums, more mic's, 57's, 421's, pair of good overhead condensers etc.)
-Mixer (Mackie 1402, don't know the US Price, guess around $600)
-Stands ($30 each)
-Good Cable(s)(XLR $35 for 35ft Canare)
-Monitor Speakers ($300 and up, Event 20/20's are popular, and good)
-Monitor Amp ($250 and up)
-Software (Cubase, Cakewalk, Vegas 3-$500)
-Plugin's (Timeworks, Waves, etc - $100 - $500)

As for SCSI vs IDE. This topic has been discussed to death in many threads. The consensus is that IDE, especially 7200RPM models are sufficent for multitrack audio, and in some spec's better than SCSI. If you go all Ultra160 LVD with 10K RPM drives, forget the <$2000 mark.

Good Luck
 
OUCH,it looks as though the budget is `getting larger and larger!!!2k is starting to look like a "poor man's"studio.ok,let's put it this way,can i buy a computer for 1000$ to 1500$ with the aforementioned MBs and chips and doohickeys and discombobulators and those things that you use to make the other things sound like a thing,all joking aside,i believe that i need the most space for memory and speed,it's pretty hard to keep the creative juices flowing when you got to wait for a program to download or boot(i don't have the terms correct)but am i almost correct in my assumtions?if i spend most of my $$$ on MBs and GBs speed and memory,will i find the right studio computer?in last months e-musician there was an article on customized computers,i need tro re-read that now that my outlook is now changed.now about mac?i hear that this is the only way to go as far as multi-track recording,it stays current,how much am i looking at for the basics,without the sound cards plug ins and everything else? what do you folks think about wave/8-24?you know it is not like i am a "professional",i am more of a musician,when i make a living off of music,it is for live performance,but,it would be nice to have a studio,that the more sophisticated things become,that i would have a real system to keep current,and for all practicalities,there is a distant future that it would be completely realistic to want to have a setup that is compatible with other sound studios,well i am babbling now,it's a dead friday at work,the more i think figures the more delirious i get,i assume now,i will use my entire tax return,i can forget about doing what a "normal"american would do,which is take half the money and save,spend the other half on sound investments,i am not normal,never will be,music be my only joy.i am getting about $3000 for taxes in 2000,i can squander it on all equipment,but would i have any worth while,long lasting,compatible,up-gradable stuff?
 
I look at my equipment purchases as an investment. Not only does the equipment have value but the purpose for buying it to create and immortalize your music is priceless
 
Hey mojo, I just saw a new thread that was started in this forum that reminded me of something. The link is called: new digital forum. The reaseon I point this out is that there is a link to a web site that has fairly decent prices on computers for recording. You should check it out.
 
expense priorities

I mostly disagree with the friend who told you the most important thing is the computer hardware - (ie cpu, memory, ect). The most important thing is to have decent microphone, decent pr-amp (i use the mackie 1202vlz pro), and decent soundcard. As far as your computer - the more cpu you have, and the more memory, the more tracks the machine can handle. But the CPU and memory DOES NOT have much effect on the quality of the sound.

It is concievable to keep the setup below 2K, but certain things will me sacrificed - most notably the quality of your audio monitors.

I suggest the following -
Rhode NT-1 mic (~$200)
Mackie 1202vlz pro (~$350)
Midiman Delta 66 (~$300)
Pentium3 600-750 mhz ($200 - $350)
128 MB pc133 ram (~$140)
Motherboard,video card,cdrom,floppy,keyboard,mouse ($200)
Hard Drive 20gig (~$200 - $250)
used 17" display monitor (ebay) (~$150)
cheap powered speakers (~25) :)
Total : $1915

add tax, and that should be about right. If you'd like advice on where to get inexpensive computers built to spec,
contact me at ben@rmvinc.com . I work as a system/network admin - so I know something about this stuff.

don't waste your money on a name brand computer - they scrimp on the components, and then overcharge you by at least 20 - 30% (if not more).

P.S. As far as the music equipment, I don't pretend to take credit for this advice - That was the equipment I chose to buy a few weeks ago after making enquiries on this board. So far, I very satisfied. If I were going to upgrade anything, I'd probably go for a better mic, maybe an AT -4033 or higher model, or maybe Rhode NT2.

BTW - I'm only running a p3-500 (the old kind with 100mhz bus and half speed cache) and my machine holds up pretty well until I get to recording the 16-18th track (using ntrack). I believe the chief limiting factor is memory, because the machine wants to load all your tracks to ram as it plays/records - WAV files are big. But 128MB is good to start - and you can expand easily as needed (make sure you get a decent motherboard - with plenty of expansion slots).

Another thing is your hardrive. Music files take up alot of room. Your 20gigs will quickly fill up - you'll probably want a CD burner to back stuff up onto (and also to make CDs of your music). I suggest a plextor IDE drive (~$250). Don't bother with SCSI anything, its too expensive for your budget, and not that nescessary.

Hope this helps - feel free to contact me directly for specific questions.

Ben

p.s. - I got my music equipment at http://www.bayviewproaudio.com -
very good prices and no tax.
 
I have read alot of the replies on this. They all sound really good. This is my opinion.

First of all, i agree alot with Emerics first post. 2 hard drives can be VERY usefull. You never know what can happen with your OS Drive. You can very easily lose everything on that drive, it could be very badily currupted forcing you to format. But whatever happens to that drive will not effect you second drive. I have had many experiences with that.

I do however i disagree with Emerics second post about the sound card. By yourself a midiman product. You probably wont need need more than 2 inputs for recording drums. However this is only if you have a mixer. You dont need to put every drum on a seperate track. However this limits you when doing live recordings. 8 tracks will definately give you a huge advantage but if your on a budget and not planning on doing huge projects for your first few months of recording, i would recommend 4 inputs and outputs like the Midiman Delta 44. It has very good sound and will do everything you need when doing multitrack recording, and its also in a $300 range (depending where you buy from). This gives you the advantage of recording the drums (2 tracks stereo), the bass, and any extra at one time on different tracks. The bass is usually recorded direct so it will not be hard on the drum tracks. And this allows the drummer to be able to hear the song while he is playing, and also get the bass done while your at it.

8 tracks will be much better when recording live. But if you have no plans on doing live recordings for a while, buy the midiman delta 44 or 66, and when your ready to upgrade by another delta 44 or 66, and use them at the same time. This is an advantage with the midiman delta products because u can put up to 4 cards into the system and have them all sync together.

I also like bdemenil comments. Dont buy brand computers. They are not worth it.

Im new at this stuff myself so i wont be surprised if people think otherwise of my opinion. If yah have anything to say i would also like to know what people think about this.
 
I'll tell you what I think darnold... :)

Sure you can get a good drum sound with 2 inputs submixing(style depending). Takes a lot of time though, and you lose control. Two excellent converters as opposed to 8 good ones? What's your point?


Yes 2 drives are good, but if you don't back up on another media (cd-r/tape backup etc..) your taking big chances. Any drive can die at anytime.
 
Yes your right

Yah your right about the 8 inputs. But 8 inputs costs alot more money than 2. I was just letting him know that you dont exactly have to have 8 inputs to record only drums. But it would be a huge advantage.

Of course like i said im pretty new to this myself. And i definately dont have alot of money to buy a $800-1000 sound card that has 8 inputs when i could do fine with 4 for $400. With that setup, if i needed to, i could put the most important things on different tracks, like the snar, kick, then put the toms on one, and overhead on another, etc.

And you are right about the 2 hard drives things. I also back up the dry and final copies on the CD-R. So if something did happen i would at least have that. But while doing my editing and pre-mastering, i would keep that all on a second drive. I once had an experience a while ago with Windows 2000. I had loaded it on my computer. Afterwards, i decided that i needed to do a clean format of my drive to load it on to make it run smoothely. Well i didnt know that the partition wouldnt at all be seen in DOS. So when doing the format command in dos, since the Windows 2000 drive was not seen it brought my back up drive as drive see. So after i got done formatting, i relized i had formatted my back up drive (with a recording that i had not backed up yet). It was a very hard night for me tellin the band i had recorded what had happened (luckily one of them was family, and the others really good friends of mine, and i had done the recording for free). Just a warning to you Windows 2000 peoples. oops.

Reply if you think differently.
 
Here's what I did............

..........being in a similar situation, and spending a significant amount of time researching on this BB and elsewhere. Keep in mind, I'm basically a solo act - this isn't for a rock band.

PC: Compaq 5000 series custom ordered from their site, with a Pentium III 633, 128 mb RAM, 20 GB, and a CD-RW (i.e. a CD burner built in that can record both on regular CD's and "recordable-rewritable" CD's, which can record over and over again)- $900+

Soundcard/Interface: Aardvark Direct Pro - which has a powered soundcard (you install this into the computer) that connects to an interface that you plug the mics into which has built-in preamps and does all that converting-to-digital stuff. It comes with software that acts as your real time (i.e. as you record) mixing board (you see and manipulate it on your screen instead of turning nobs). It also comes with mixing and mastering software, although I'm told I might need something more, like N'Track, which is about $100). -- $459 from doctoraudio.com.

Headphones (you must have these on while you record)(I forget the brand; decent studio headphones cost about $100)


Condensor mic - I chose the AT4047 - $479 (I think) including a shockmount at bhphoto - I tried a bunch of them and I though this was the best for under $700

A really good 10' cord - $20

I still need studio monitors - I'm leaning toward the Event PS6 (these are self-powered so you don't need to buy a separate amp) which is around for a little under $500.


This comes to about $2500 but theoretically - and I stress theoretically 'cause I haven't recorded anything yet - this is everything I need, and it should produce a (lower end) professional quality sound for as little as possible maximizing the new technologies.

Happy camping.
 
I can't stress enough - you gain nothing from buying
name brand computers - they're not the ones who make the
hardware that goes in them - might as well just buy the hardware and put it together + save lots - or buy from a vendor who will assemble for you at low cost. Also compaqs
are notorious for the low quality of their components - not to mention their systems are often hard and expensive to upgrade because of compatability issues.

Monitors -
I just got myself a pair of Yorkville YSM-1s. Powered by Alesis RA-100. Got the monitors and amp used for $300. New, it would be about $550 - $600. Yorkville also makes an amp - the SR-300, which is supposed to be pretty good. This stuff is pretty easy to find on ebay.
 
ok please tell me about monitors,i own these roland pm-8,they are far from monitors you would use for mix down,although i did use them for the mixes i am doing now i did all the recording on the boss br-8 digital 8 track,i went to colorado and recorded my sister playing acoustic guitar and then added lead and back up vocals,when i arrived back in philly i added 2 tracks of a drum machine(i was trying to make the machine sound like a real drummer) electric bass guitar,electric guitars,organ and keys,with my equipment somewhat limited i noticed that it had no punch ,the recorder i have has no effects loops in or out,so i could only use their effects,which isn't that bad as much as it is limiting,i lterally had to record each track later with a customized user effect,then comined it all as a final mix,then i spdif'd it into a standalone cd-burner(i did not want to lose any quality,or gain the typical tape compression)still it lacks bite,but please go on to the site the adress is Allcet.com ,then click onto LABEL A records,the songs that say marybeth with john abella are my latest mixes,i believe my lack of equipment leads me to less than satisfactory mixes,mostly the monitors,they are decent for the price and just basic,but i notice when i play back through a cheap cd-player,i hear the total different mix,but this is what i am mostly doing as far as music and sound with that particular artist,hearing what i am doing,can you kind of tell me what would be the best setup to suit my needs,i will spend 2500$ tops,i must use some money for toys(a guitar,or an amp,or something )please respond and give critiques,not about the music,it might not be your style or taste i mean the final mix quality and technmical terms ,please.thanx-mojovoodoo
 
HMM the merry go round.

Heya Mojo,


I'd suggest buying a good up to date PC, go the pentium option because of the second level cashe (audio uses a lot of floating point proccesing and that needs lots of RAM in the called cashe). Also avoid the Athalon mantra, they're motherboards can have serious compatability issues with lots of popular sound cards and you want to get it right first time. Music files are HUGE.

If you want lots o tracks and it sounds like you do, you need a P3 600+ (128 PC 133mhz RAM minimum for lots o tracks and running software FX; in regads to RAM make sure it comes in a single strip, most motherboards have 3 slots for RAM and if they ship it with 2 x 64 strips you can only put in 64 more or start again with bigger sizes coz they need to be the same size and brand to be trouble free)

As for hard disk, there is a great article here http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles/1A37C1C69674D6D786256950005D2C39 I think this is required reading even if it's compareable to War and Peace in size, lots to learn about especially to dispel some of the common myths involved in building a DAW.

Mother Board? Well Emeric's on the money here IMHO.

Hmm sound card?

Well do you KNOW what you want yet?

Do you need a light pipe to hook up to an ADAT in the future?

Do you need 8 ins and outs?

Will built in preamps really stop you needing a desk?

Do you want 32 bit recording (if you do you'll need lots o backup space coz the files a HUGE, and don't forget CDs are 16 bit!)

If you are new to DAW recording why not set up a rocking puter without the flashy sound card. The learning curve is very fast and you may buy that car that has all the features you wanted but not what you need?

A cheap (and I mean under US$40) will set you up with 2 ins and 2 outs, it wont be great but you can sus out what you need without buying the wrong thing for $$$$. That way you can play around and see what fetures you need to acheive your vision before you spend big ones.

Beware the DIGI 001. It's a great card and the in and out options are huge, not to mention superb sounding preamps, but they don't and probably will not have ASIO drivers for PC compatible with anything other thatn the affilliated software Pro Tools. It's the pro format but to upgrade is big $$$. The DIGI could lock you into an exspensive course.

You asked about Monitors and the Allesis Monitor One's have allready been mentioned. have a squiz at this http://www.gadgetlabs.com/buy/e-dealz_frame.htm
#3 looks like what you're after by the sound of it.

Daunting ain't it!

Hope this helps some.

Bones
 
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