When do you tell a band they suck?

HogansHiro

HogansHiro

Now with 25% more sarcasm
Here's dilemma for you folks......At what time do you tell a band they suck and should really practice before they waste anymore money recording. I enjoy getting paid as much as the next guy but when a paying band comes in and is sloppier than aunt marthas chili dog...at what point does the musician in you say....uh guys.....it sort of sucks....go away and come back.


Suggestions
 
Thats a sure way to lose a client.
I make the best of it and if they dont like it in the end I tell em I did what I could with what you gave me to work with and then point out the problem areas. With some luck they might want to do it over again, which means more $$$
 
The only time I would consider telling them they suck is if they looked me in the eye, and said flatly:

"Be honest with us, Chessrock. Do we just stink the joint up or what?"

Even then, I would probably think otherwise. The only situation where I'm pretty sure I would is if they tried to blaim it on me. Like if they hounded me, telling me that I was somehow responsible for their not sounding good, etc.

At that point, I would simply tell them the old "You can't polish a turd" thing.
 
Hiro-san! Konnichi wa!

Let's face it. Bands like that aren't paying you to be a music critic.

Sometimes it takes all one's willpower to bite your tongue, but somehow you've got to do it.

I'll give a common example that happens to me all the time:

I've been a professional pianist for about 30 years. Many is the time when a keyboard player comes into my studio who, take after take, consistently butchers a part that, for me, would be extremely simple to play. Or maybe they just don't understand what is stylistically appropriate to play in a given context. Or they are playing the wrong harmonies, butchering the song form, don't understand voice leading, are dropping beats, or can't keep a steady tempo.

Do you know how tempting it is to say: "let me show you how to do that..."

But I can't do it, unless they sincerely ask me to show them first. Chances are the results of my butting in would be to destroy whatever little confidence they might have, and certainly will make them uncomfortable about working with me as an engineer in the future.

Occasionally I will exchange suggestions and ideas about playing a section with someone who is as competent a pro as I am, because their egos won't be shattered. But even then, one has to be careful.

The more they suck, the less likely they will be able to handle suggestions or criticisms. So bite your tongue. Finish the gig. Get paid.

You can always make excuses if they want to rehire you in the future if the whole experience is too painful. Wakarimasu-ka?
 
Ah! Christine: welcome to yet another Mass. resident. We are multiplying mightily...

(In NH they call us "Mass-holes"!)
 
Littledog, I just got a weekend place in cambridge for the next 6 months, do I qualify?

As far as telling a band that they suck,,,you have to look at every band as a work in progress and look for opptys to make them sound better. Even great bands have areas that can be imrpoved on or developed further. Make suggestions on what you think is appropriate, inappropriate, overdone, cliche, boring, etc. Just do it in a way that is clear that your intention is to truly make a kick ass record. For them. If you are sincere and talk encouragingly about what the possibilities are, youll get them on board and itll be appreciated.
 
Well that is why I no longer work around big studios. I can chose who I work with, because my overhead is so low I don't need to take just anyone who can afford it.

If I did have to deal with a band that needed to practice more, I would do so as soon as possible. What I would say is, "you know, you guys have some really good songs, and really good (chops or feel or whatever). You just are not quite ready to record. You have a couple things you need to work on. If you really want to, I would be happy to record you guys, but you are going to be spending much more money than you need to. If you were to go and spend some time practicing (whatever they most need help with), we could do a lot more with your money."

I would also give them the name of a really good musician who gives private lessons, and suggest they get the teacher to help them with their difficulties. You should talk to the teacher beforehand to make sure they would be interested in working with a band, or if you want to you could offer to be the one helping them with this stuff. The teacher would kind of be taking the part of a producer, and you might even sell it to the band as working with a producer on pre-production.

Mostly, though, I would no longer choose to work with a band that needed that much help.

Hey littledog, I used to live in Boston (for seven years, including the time I was at the dreaded Berklee). I miss the city, particularly walking down Lansdowne Street at 10:00 on a Friday night.

Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
I let it go myself. I sit and listen through the tunes with them. If theres even one reasonably good ear in the lot... they tend to bash each other for missed riffs.
 
How about putting a BIG sign in the studio that reads;
"Vocal and instrumental coaching available/reasonable rates"?

Then have a business card and/or flyer rack filled with their
business cards. Plus it could lead to some extra $$ for you
in referral fees since you're introducing clients to them.
Maybe one of them could even come to visit "coincidently"
while they're recording and happen to be around when they
need help.

Chris
 
Gees...
I never work with musicians/band I haven't known...
I always make a damn sure I went to their practise session at least a week before they get into recording session. Usualy I can tell how "good" actualy they are. How ready they are. Tell 'em suck after you record 'em is too risky (loosing the money, or they'll blame you being stupid engineer for whatever reason :D). So the best place is in their practise session before they get recorded. Tell 'em this and that. Tell 'em clear and plain. They will ALWAYS hear you. At least, I show them hard copy of my thread on newbie forum about what musician should know before they get into recording session. They'll start thinking. OR... give it to their manager/leader.... tell him he will just waste money without quality. Then ask him/her whatever it takes to fix that as soon as posible, and tell him to be back in particular time to do the session in my studio. Trust me, they'll come back and trust you...

;)
James
 
Hiya Littledog, it's good to be here, and I'm even actually learning something! BTW, don't pay no mind to them folks from NH...I just call them "New Hamsters" :D

Besides, without all that Mass-a-holic money, where would they be anyway, besides yukking it up with the cows. ;)

CK
 
I would never tell someone "they suck" unless they were an asshole. There's really no need to hurt someone's feelings when you can get it done just as well in a polite, matter-of-fact way. I would just say " You know; it would help ya'lls sound if you worked on this stuff before you came in" and I'd let it go at that. After all.....

1. You're recording them to make money and.....

2. Who says that players who aren't any good don't have the right to have some fun and make whatever music they can. I always just try to help them get the best that's possible out of whatever they can put down. Sometimes I can help them get better tracks; other times I can only try to do a very flattering mix with lots of judicious 'verbs and delays to hide some of the worst stuff.
 
acidrock said:
KA-CHING,KA-CHING,KA-CHING...
sound of cash register

I don't know,that sounds pretty good to me!:rolleyes: :cool: ;)
Click to expand...

You know, this is fine in theory, but there is a big problem. Your name is on that disc, and if the band sucks, people will see your name attached to it.

I build guitars, and I will not sell a guitar which is not perfect. Why? Because I and everyone else who works in my shop (it is a family business) is represented by that instrument. Our major form of advertising is word of mouth, and I do not want people talking about an inferior product out there representing my business.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
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