What UPS for the studio?

J

JJM

New member
Thursday morn

I want to add an uninterruptible power supply to the studio for the computers.

I read a while ago that most low cost units generate (switching) noise.

I have a Furman power conditioner. Will this be adaquate to remove such noise?

If you are using an UPS:
What model number, manufacturer
(any noise,....)

Using any power conditioners?

And so on.

J
 
:cool: Yo JJM:

I'm using the Tripplite 300 mainly for my DAW SIAB. It will give me eleven minutes of power if local power fails. This will give me plenty of time to shut down the recorder and not worry about damage to the HD.

The unit will tweet if the power is off for a length of time--it's a reminder that the unit is not recharging. But, there is no noise when it's on. I usually leave the unit on 24/7.

You can get a unit that will give you a longer power time but, of course, they cost more.

Green Hornet :D
 
JJM said:
I want to add an uninterruptible power supply to the studio for the computers.

I read a while ago that most low cost units generate (switching) noise.
I have a Furman power conditioner. Will this be adaquate to remove such noise?
Click to expand...

Hello JJM:
I'm not sure what you are talking about generate switching noise, but all the UPS (if they are any good) will beep when supplied power is lost. The reason, is that it will alert you that you are running on the UPS battery power. I'm not sure that the beeping noise would be a concern, when power is lost (most likely your mixing console will be without power and so will everything else) because you are not going to be doing any recording.

Now that being said, because all the UPS are are big batteries (similar to those in cars) they do emmit an extremely high pitched sound. Which is audible at real close range. Again, this is not a real concern while recording, because the sound is so high that it dissipates very quickly.

Now the fancier UPS models will come with a serial port and some software, to install into your computer. This is usually for computers that are running 24/7 (even when you are not there) and may need to be shutdown when no one is in the area or even aware that there was a loss of power. These units are a good thing for Servers and machines that are left on all the time.

If you are interested in continuing to run your operations while the power is lost, then you need to shell out a whole lot of money an put a power generator and a building UPS. The way it works is, the Building UPS takes over immediately as the power is lost, and you may loose some light fixtures but every outlet will still have power (it's really up to you). This give the Diesel fueled Generator out back to kickin and warm up. This kinda operation is usually done at Hospitals or places like NASDAQ, etc.

I don't think you need this much power.
 
Thursday 3:45pm est usa

Thank you all for your responses.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[[[ Reference:

Scott Dorsey, AC Power, Recording Magazine, March 2003, pages 56, 57.

"An ONLINE UPS system is a battery charger run off the AC line, which charges a large battery, and that battery runs an inverter which generates AC power....It used to be that even the best inverters produced a fairly poor-looking waveform, because the better the waveform, the less efficient the conversion....."

"Today things are a lot better if you are willing to spend the money. There are online UPS systems out there that are "true sine wave devices" and have very low distortion specifications."

"The modified sine wave devices tend to be a source of more power problems than they actually fix, but the higher-grade units can do a very fine job of cleaning up power under almost all circumstances. The problem here is that these units cost substantially more money."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"A STANDBY UPS is a different creature,....It too has a battery charger, and a battery and an inverter, but the inverter only runs when the power goes out.,... But it also means that you don't have any noise problems generated by the ups except when the system is running on batteries. And when the system is running on batteries you probably aren't recording--you're probably just saving your files and shutting things down properly (at least you should be).,... "

"In fact some of the standby UPS systems will have real problems with brownouts, where they begin switching back and forth rapidly between the inverter and line."

]]] end reference
------------------------------------------------------------------------

A number of my clients have inexpensive UPS devices.
They draw power from the AC line except when the power drops voltage or quits.

At one location (16th floor of the Michigan Tower, in Lansing) the UPS is constantly toggling responding to voltage changes.


Rarely does the AC quit at my house. But, occasionally it will dip enough to make the VCRs and microwaves lose their minds.

Probably once every six months the two main computers will also reboot.

So, I thought about getting one of the STANDBY units, but I do not want one the will be too sensitive to voltage changes.


J
 
Hey JJM:

I'm not sure where you are, but it would seem it's a rural area or somewhere where it's very cold right now. Unfortunately I get pretty clean power, so all my experience is with your run of the mill UPS or a building UPS.

However, it would seem you need a surge supressor or protector. Belkin makes a pretty good Surge protector, and they do a pretty good job of cleaning the power.

Look at this site -

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatSectionView.process?IWAction=Load&Merchant_Id=&Section_Id=71

I know that you may have a 'surge protector' right now, but most likely you bought one of those cheap ones that just blow a fuse when the power is spiked.

I currently own two of these at home
http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProd...t_Id=&Section_Id=71&pcount=&Product_Id=124808 and they can be bought at Best Buy or Whatever Large Retailer is in your area.

Buy one and try it at home, if your power still gives you a problem, then return it.
 
Thursday Eve

A client of mine has offices in the "old" Michigan tower. The power there is not happy. We have a small UPS for each computer. The newest one (APC Back-UPS ES: 500va) is very sensitive to voltage fluctuations. I can hear it click when toggling. I had to stop the messages displaying status: too often and distracting.

------------------
I am NOT having significant/regular problems at my home/studio.

But, about every 3 months I notice the lights dim. And about every 6 months the power quits (or the voltage dips) long enough to reboot my business computers. Happily, this has not happened during recording activities.

I would like to have some protection. But given my cited reference and my client's experience, I am concerned about getting one of the "new" inexpensive standby UPSs: frequent audible clicking, probable inverter noise,...

The Furman power conditioner (PM-ProDM) indicates the voltage into the studio is stable.

And the Furman is connected to a heavy duty surge protector: Tripp-Lite Isobar: Ultracopy: Surge suppression and RFI/EMI line-noise filtering.

So, I am interested in a UPS that does not attempt to regulate voltage by often switching to battery.

(With most all studio equipment on, and operating, the Furman indicates about 7 amps of use.)

What I read from most responders is: they have not noticed, or are nost aware of, power noise from the units they are using.

J
 
I'm not sure what cheap units you mean, but I would probably try to steer away from anything that is suppose to protect your computer and is associated with the word cheap.

Again any APC, Belkin, Namebrand here UPS will not emit any significant amount of noise. If it's for your house, your computer and video monitors will emit more noise than your UPS. If noise is a significant issue for you, just get a good extension cord and stick the UPS in the closet or some other room. If the UPS is beeping then your power is out.
An UPS will not try to regulate the power, it just monitors the power its receiving and does what comes naturally if it sees the current drop, then it knows its time to go to work and switches to battery.
A note to you! If you are going to purchase an UPS then you have to know the load of all the systems you want to maintain running and for how long. They will ask you what the Amperage is, the resistance and so forth.
Normally (unless you buy from e-bay) no reputable company will sell you an UPS before you give them all the specs. Expect to shell out anywhere from $200 to $500 depending on how long you want and what the load is.
 
Dracon said:
An UPS will not try to regulate the power, it just monitors the power its receiving and does what comes naturally if it sees the current drop, then it knows its time to go to work and switches to battery.
Click to expand...

Some of them do. I have a rackmount APC unit that regulates voltage, and I don't think it switches to battery to do it. I also have a Furman voltage regulator on another rack. Both units will generated noise when switching due to unstable voltage. Other than that, the Furman is dead quiet, but of course has no battery. The APC has a hum from its transformer, but it's quieter than my PC (which has all the usual quiet accessories).

Voltage is stable where I live, so I really don't have any worries.
 
Thank you all for your responses.

My concern for the audible noise is that it is an indicator of the UPS switching to battery.

And, since my reference is that inverters used in a STANDBY UPS are likely to generate POWER noise, I am concerned to use a unit that toggles during recording; a unit that is very sensitive to voltage drops, like the one my client is using. (See above messages, and Article excerpts.)

If the UPS switched to battery ONLY when the power was gone, I would be less concerned.

Hence, I am interested in a unit that does not respond to voltage dips. If this means I need to get a ONLINE UPS that generates a TRUE sine wave, then I will.

From the responses to my question I infer, deduce: most are not experiencing any problems (I.e., power noise) that they are aware of.

For me, NOW, the biggest source of SIGNAL/POWER noise is the 3 computer monitors. With headphones I can hear the buzz induced into the audio cables that run to/from the mixer that is located on the table under the monitors. So, I power-off the monitors when recording.

Since this noise is low level, and is difficult to hear through speakers, I assume most people are not aware of it in their systems.

I have been very methodical in attempting to reduce all sources of POWER noise: improper grounding, AC plug polarity, unbalanced cables,.... Some of this noise is almost inaudible, requiring headphones, and meters to find and measure. But ALL noise can modulate a signal, and noise does accumulate.

I do not want to add a probable SIGNAL/POWER noise. So I am asking what other people are using in an effort to determine which type of unit and from what vendor.


J
 
Sorry I couldn't help you.
I'm sure that I have some noise in my power line, but compared to the noise in my room is so minimal that there is no way I could detect the noise.

In fact, I just did a quick test. I recorded with everything unplugged. No hum, no noise nothing (so I'm good up to my audio card).

I plugged my MG 10/2 and turned it on, and recorded. Again nothing.

I turned the ST OUT & C-R Levels to 10 (with all the gains on +1-dB and all the mic lines on 0 Level) and then I got some very minimal white noise (no hum, no weir noises nothing).

I could do a test of my mic cable but I seriously doubt my balanced XLR cable will be putting much noise into the line. So 98% of my noise is all room noise. However, I live in a relatively new neighborhood, where all the power, phone lines, etc are buried and that helps with not picking up RF or cracking, etc.

I'll let you know what my mic cable test came up with in another post.

P.S. I used my Headphones to test for noise because my crappy Altec Lasing will put out white noise when cranked even if nothing is being played.
 
Okay. I did two more tests with the mic cable & without.

I turned the mic line to 10 and that introduced about 5% more of white noise, but still not distinguished in the software from silence. Then I turned the Gain all the up, and that introduced a significant amount of white noise. It was large enough to register on the level display of the software with the high end registering upto -36dB and the low end to
-54dB.
I'm sure a better mixer will do better on this particular S/N output, but that's what I've got and I have to live with it for now. -36dB is hardly anything for me to worry about to start doing anything about yet. Especially when I add the room noise where at the same levels as before it goes to the -27dB.

I'll never use that much gain when recording anyway.
 
If you want to be on the cheap side, put a conditioner before the UPS--it'll correct enough that the UPS will only turn on when really needed.

Furthermore, what're you worried about line noise for? You will NOT be connecting your outboard equipment to this--ONLY your PC and monitors, and probably your interface. You have to realize that since we're not dealing with a true sine wave here, the peak voltage is going to be different to compensate. Some really cheap inverters also rely on PWM, which is /really/ not something you want anywhere near your outboard equipment. You don't have to worry about that so much with your computer because not only are UPSs designed for computers, but every computer already has a power conditioner built into its psu. Professional audio equipment, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter.

As far as noise is concerned, listen (no pun intended): barring a layer of water, lead, water, twinkies, and then water again, and cabling made out of room-temperature super-conductors that the government, freemasons and nambla are all working hard to make sure you don't know about, you're not going to get that kind of noise out. What kind of interface do you have? If you're using a regular ol' soundcard/onboard sound, or your cd drives' audio outputs are getting in the signal, that's probably it--even if the drives aren't playing.

So anyway, the noise (we're speaking RF/electrical noise) generated by any brand-name UPS thing is going to be minimal at most. It's going to generate less than your computer, so suck it up and make a decision--the introduction of noise that, with proper placement/cabling will be barely detectable, or the chance that you might lose hours worth of work when Johnny GED over at the power company decides that the control consoles are just the right distance from eachother for a rousing game of beer pong. If you're running 3 CRTs and you're still concerned about noise from a UPS after all the posts in this thread, I hope this is some cruel joke. Especially since, as another post pointed out, chances are you're not going to be recording when the power goes out. And if you are, the take's probably ruined from the performer being startled /because the power just went out/. There'll only be switching noise when the power goes out, especially if you put a conditioner in front of it, or no switching noise with an online unit. This post took entirely too much effort.
 
Thank you for your response.

>You will NOT be connecting your outboard equipment to this--ONLY your PC and monitors, and probably your interface.

I have all equipment connected to the Furman Power conditioner. The Furman will be connected to the UPS. Hence all equipment will be powered.

This is good if I am recording when the power fails, fluctuates. Hopefully I will be able to finish the track.

> As far as noise is concerned

I am referring to the clicking noise made by the UPS when switching to battery. My concern is what this indicates about the AC power, and the frequency of generated switch/inverter noise. I am NOT concerned about the audibility of this noise.

>If you're running 3 CRTs

As you can read in my previous post: "I power-off the monitors when recording." 3 LCD monitors are on the "to buy soon" list.

The objective is to not add another source of electronic noise. And since money will be spent, the proper item should be obtained.

APC has informed me all of their Smart-UPS units generate true sine waves.
And following the UPS with the Furman should address potential noise created when the UPS switches to/from battery. The 2200VA unit will cover all of my equipment running for about 12 minutes.

J
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top