what to price a cd?

R

ralf

New member
you guys have been such a big help with my decision of changing my band name or not (The Vermin), so i have another question for you:
we are about to finish recording our new album and are going to get 1000 cd's pressed soon. my brother/guitar player, singer, wants to sell our 15 song full color print cd's for $5 which is a very good price for a profesionally pressed cd. i want to keep them the same price as our previous release which was $8. my argument is that if someone is going to buy a cd, they are going to buy it regardless of what price the cd is (within reason). not that making money is the ultimate goal, it would be nice to make some where we can since we haven't gotten paid for a gig in over half a year. also, we don't have a label to help us out at all, which brings up another point. do alot of you have a label that helps you pay for anything, at least pressing? or do most of you work your asses off just to spend your own money and end up with a bunch of boxes full of cd's sitting in your closet. thanks for your help!
-Ralf
 
Well regarding the price first. There are a few variables really but mainly what I would want to know is, are the songs good enough to warrant my spending $8 and the other part is the quality of the recordings. Was the album recorded at a studio, with a producer/engineer/arranger, with hi tech equipment, was it mixed and maybe re-mixed profeesionally, did you get it proffesionally mastered.

The likelyhood answers to the later questions would be no and thus diminishing the atractivness of the package.

Are you looking to make money or gain exposure.

No offense and I don't know your music but if you haven't been paid for a gig in half a year it may suggest that there isn't the market for your music or it simply isn't up to standard. Like I said I'm only going on the facts provided here.

If your ultimate aim is to hit the big time, then were only talkin' about 1,000 cd's here and you should be trying to cover your cost and gain exposure (setting a website up with a mail order capacity could be very beneficial). On the other hand, if you wish to stay locally and it's more of a hobby then why not go for the $8 and try and get a following.

There are many questions to ask and answer, at the end of the day you should sit down with the band/investors and decide exactly what direction you are going in and where you want to be; this should determine a cause of action.

Good luck,
Krystof.
 
Just my ( very very non-expert ) opinion...

It depends on who you think you're going to sell your CD to. Are you going to pedal them at gigs? Online? Local record stores? All three?

Because I would most likely never pay $8.00 for a CD from a band I've never heard of. Two things might sway my opinion:

-A CD that just looks fabulous (YES, this matters)

-A gig that absolutely kicks my ass

IMO, you can get away with charging $8.00-$10.00 a disc at your gigs, if you're really good live. But you have to be REALLY good to get that out of me personally. I've been to some gigs that I thought were pretty good, but walking out the door there was no way I was gonna plunk down $8.00 for one of their CDs.

Now $5.00 is total impulse buy territory. If nobody knows who you are, which it sounds like that's the case, I'd make sure the CD is an impulse buy. Especially if you're playing to college audiences. High schoolers have a little more money to burn than college students do. If you make your CD an impulse buy, I think you'll see more people walking out the door with it.

But more importantly... at this stage in your career, you don't have the prospects to make a great deal of money anyway. If you paid, say, $1800 to have 1000 CDs made, and you sell them at $5.00 each, you're STILL making a profit. But give copies away, too. Don't make your friends or family pay for your CD. (Once again, just my opinion.)

I think of it this way. Would you rather have $800, and 900 copies of your CD sitting in boxes that you absolutely can't move, no matter how hard you try, or would you rather have 1000 people out there listening to your CD, enjoying it, and talking about it, no matter what amount of money you lost?

Give me 1000 new audience members, any day. A fan is priceless.
 
uhh eurythmic "no matter what amount of money you lost"

I disagree on that statement. yes 1000 new audience members would be good but thats only good if your a touring artist outside your area. Second he stated he hasn't got paid for a gig in over a half a year, so 1000 new audience members don't mean shit at a show if he's not getting paid........Although 1000 in attendance would definately warrant you getting paid


Anyway heres my advice ralf, Fuck worrying about if your cd is good enough to sell for X amount of dollars..... Whatever it costs you to duplicate per cd add 5 bucks.... you got 15 songs on this cd so its plenty of music and I'm sure hard work so don't be a ho. Second checks this out

You press 1000 cd's totally market ready for $3 a piece =3K expense

You sell the first 400 @ $8 = 200 profit

You still got 600 left you can either drop the price or give em' away to get that fan base, but definately generate profit after that do whatever, but to take a loss is bad business and will get you no where

If you have hopes of getting a record deal someday and show your band (which is a business) has taken a loss on every CD you put out you can kiss all you hopes away...... Its hard enough to get a record deal- and if your losing money what record company would invest in you!!!!!!!!!!
 
I used to work with a keyboard player who had no trouble selling CD's 1 for $15 and 2 for $25 at art festivals. $10 at a club doesnt seem that expensive.
 
Gec, you said basically exactly what I did, but in slightly differing language. :)

But a couple of clarifications...

Second he stated he hasn't got paid for a gig in over a half a year, so 1000 new audience members don't mean shit at a show if he's not getting paid........
Click to expand...

He's not getting paid because nobody knows who he his. And I don't know, but I'm betting he's never had 1000 people go to a gig to see him before.

Not getting paid for a gig should hardly be shocking, especially if he's in a college town. For instance my old school probably had, I dunno, I'll guess 20 bars/coffee shops/venues that took live music. The vast majority of those didn't pay a dime for live entertainment. That's reality.

And by "audience member" I meant "fan", not "ass in the seat". There's a difference. At ths stage in the game it's much more important to be known, than to show a large profit. Every new business eats money for a while, and takes a loss, planning for a much larger gain down the line.
 
I agree with those points eurythmic........ :)

look at all the good information you got ralf.......... You better post again and tell us you got signed...hahaha
 
How 'bout renting a local hall and putting on a show (if you're
ready) then charging 8.00 at the door and throwing in a CD
with the ticket price?? Just a thought.....

Graham.
 
I was just reading the posts here and thought I'd get your views on a concept I've been thinking about using on my forthcoming website.

I'd like to have brief samples of my music, in MP3 and Real Audio formats, for people to listen to, to decide if they're interested in buying. I'm not giving anything away, though, so these will be limited to a few seconds of play - just enough to give the listener an idea as to what the tune sounds like. The full-length tracks will be sold on a per-track basis, available by download only after completing the online secure order form and sending payment via credit card. To facilitate shopping, there will be a shopping cart so people can select several tracks to buy, if they wish. the pricing would be, say, 50 cents per track, which I think is reasonable. I could offer a special price break, too, say, buy ten tracks for $3.00, or buy one, get one free. In addition to the sale of downloads, I would have the usual mail order option for my CDs, in case someone wants to buy an entire album. The CDs would be priced in the $4 to $5 range.

I think that, with the option to buy only the tracks one wants, and to buy as few or as many as one wants, I'll stand a better chance at making some sales. What do you guys think?
 
Doesn't sound like a terrible idea to me. Mp3.com has similar options, with the NetCD format and artist channels. I don't know if they sell, though. From a consumer's point of view, it might be worth your while to make one or two tracks freely downloadable, but I'm not sure whether that would positively or negatively impact your bottom line.

I also wouldn't personally pay money for an mp3 though, so maybe I'm not the ideal online music consumer. That $5.00 price is very reasonable, though. You might even kick that up a dollar or two.
 
this has become my personal opinion as of late. I won't buy a CD just for the 'songs' if played and recorded very average. Maybe a buck or two...but that is about it. Now, if I hear a CD that blows me away with musicianship, recording techniques...etc...that is another story...and you noticed, I said "If I hear a CD."...which means I am probably going to have to hear it somehow, first. I have yet to hear anything with the exception of one person's material, at the mp3 clinic that I would consider buying...and that was because of the musicianship, and not the recording actually. And that person never really got any hits on his mp3 either, for some reason... the musicianship was superb, but not in the vein of pop songs, I guess...hence, low replies.
 
Eurythmic said:
Doesn't sound like a terrible idea to me. Mp3.com has similar options, with the NetCD format and artist channels. I don't know if they sell, though. From a consumer's point of view, it might be worth your while to make one or two tracks freely downloadable, but I'm not sure whether that would positively or negatively impact your bottom line.

I also wouldn't personally pay money for an mp3 though, so maybe I'm not the ideal online music consumer. That $5.00 price is very reasonable, though. You might even kick that up a dollar or two.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback, Eurythmic. Yep, $7 for a CD isn't shocking, especially when the big names are getting $15 to $18 for theirs. I don't know about the average MP3 user, weither. I'm afraid what market that might have existed for the sale of MP3 downloads has been ruined by Napster and Napster clones. All these kids are hooked on stealing.....er, um,...."free" music. So, that just makes it hard for us musicians to sell our work online in that format. But, surely, if you drop the price per download enough, SOMEONE will buy them, right?
 
mixmkr said:
this has become my personal opinion as of late. I won't buy a CD just for the 'songs' if played and recorded very average. Maybe a buck or two...but that is about it. Now, if I hear a CD that blows me away with musicianship, recording techniques...etc...that is another story...and you noticed, I said "If I hear a CD."...which means I am probably going to have to hear it somehow, first. I have yet to hear anything with the exception of one person's material, at the mp3 clinic that I would consider buying...and that was because of the musicianship, and not the recording actually. And that person never really got any hits on his mp3 either, for some reason... the musicianship was superb, but not in the vein of pop songs, I guess...hence, low replies.
Click to expand...


Good point. When I conceived of this idea, offering CDs was an afterthought; I was more interested in automated online sales, direct to the consumer, without the expenses of running a mailorder operation, though. I think there are other ways to get CDs heard, though; i.e., internet radio airplay (assuming their will still BE any, after Congress has screwed it all up by making internet broadcasters pay royalties), touring and clubs (not that I do either of those), and so on. Just selling some downloads could conceiveably start a buzz for my CDs, provided enough people download the MP3s. What if I dropped the price per download to, say, 5 cents, or even 1 cent? You see, it's just that I don't want a bunch of people downloading my music and then never buying it. That's what is killing the recording industry right now. The internet will never be a place for all musicians to sell their music if people aren't willing to pay for it.
 
Long essay alert! \('o`)/`

But, surely, if you drop the price per download enough, SOMEONE will buy them, right?
Click to expand...

Maybe. As a general rule, the more ways you get your music out there, the better. It can only work in your favor. As for what people will pay money for - I may have mentioned this earlier in this thread, but I think it can be helpful to put yourself into the consumer's position. What would you pay money for? I don't know about you, but I can't buy every CD that I want. I wish I could, but for every CD I purchase, I find at least two more that I wish I could afford. So as the artist, you have to somehow be the person who puts out the "special" product that the average consumer like me will gravitate toward buying, versus putting it on the "Gosh, I need to pick that up at some point" list.

Price is one thing, of course, but great music and a professional package are more important. To me, if I'm buying something online, there's not much difference between $5.00 and $10.00. If your CD is priced at $10.00, shipping included, and I like it, I won't be any less likely to buy it than I would have if it had been priced at $5.00. Part of this is because of the credit card involved - a lump of plastic doesn't feel like cash in hand, and never will. You can use that to your advantage.

I think the rules change if you can get your CD into a physical store. That's a case where I'd slash the price, for a couple of reasons. One, the record store is where impulse buys happen. It's an important market to hit. That's the one area where online buying will never overtake in-person buying, without significant changes. I would say that maybe 1% of all the CD's I've ever purchased were bought online. Why? Because when I feel like getting a new CD, I want it now, not a week from now when I'm already in the mood to listen to something or somebody else. Two, I'm just about to move to Florida. Now let's say you live in California, or not in the US at all. Guess who's probably never going to see you play live? :) If somebody in your hometown buys your CD and likes it, that's another person who will hopefully attend your shows, and help build a local following. Person A tells two friends "Hey, this CD is really good!", and the tree continues. If I like your CD, that's great, but it's not going to impact your career. So I think it's important to get your CD into local record stores too, if possible. If you can do that, a low price and a snazzy presentation are key. I live right near a university campus at the moment, so I've done lots of record store hunting. It never ceases to amaze me, how many local artists have their CDs in the stores, priced at $15.99 and not selling at all. Well, duh! You'd think they would learn. Give me a cool cover that makes me want to randomly pick your CD up instead of one of the 50 others, give me a low impulse-buy targeted price, and I just might walk out with your album.

That's why I think that you should price your CD differently if you can get it into physical stores. Maybe sell the disc for $9 or $10 online, shipping included, but get it down as low as possible for stores. The store itself will want a cut, I'm sure, but given the reasons that I stated above, I think it's okay if you personally even lose a little bit on every copy sold in stores (in the beginning, of course). The long-term gain could be far more important than making sure you can walk away with $20 or $30 for the 10 copies you were able to place in the local Wherehouse Records.

As for mp3s... I don't think that free downloading is always just about piracy. After all, it's been statistically proven that people who download mp3s go out and buy more albums than people who don't. I'm an example of this. I download lots of music. I have about 25GB of mp3s. When I know a new album is coming out, and I'm interested in it, I'll download it a few weeks before it's in stores. If I like it, I write a glowing review, then go out and buy it. If I don't like it, then I didn't waste any money, and I'll try to make sure that my readers don't either. And in the past, say, year and a half, I've probably purchased at minimum 200 CDs. MANY of those were by artists that I never would have given money to, had I not been able to hear their work for free beforehand. Gone are the days of buying a $15 album because of a great single, and ending up with one good song and ten bad ones. I love that fact. And record companies are aware of it, too. Why don't you see CD-singles in record stores anymore, for the most part? Because free downloading has taken over that avenue of promotion. But mp3s won't replace having the real thing. Not for me, anyway. I don't like the way that mp3s sound, and it's just not the same as having the actual album in your hand.

Well, those are my thoughts...
 
Um.....was that "long essay alert" for my post or yours? LOL. ;)

I know where you're coming from, and I understand what you're saying. The customer rules, and no one has a business without customers. However, a business in which you give away your products to the consumer with no payment in return is NOT a business, it's a charity. If no money is to be made because no one is willing to pay for anything anymore, then what is the artists' incentive to produce? "Getting the music out there" is fine - if someone is buying it. Not that I think you'd disagree with this.

Yep, I would price my CD higher if it were in retail stores. Why? Because you'd HAVE TO. You've got distributors taking a cut from that money when you get to that level of sales.

I know what you mean about the relativity of price. When I was studying photography, years ago, a wise instructor, when asked about pricing, said, "Ask whatever YOU think your work is worth. Someone will pay your price." Another annecdote: my wife has a booth in an antiques shop and whenever she tells me she finally sold something that she's had in inventory for over a year, I tell her, that's because the buyer just hadn't shown up - until now. Yes, I could ask $10 instead of $5, and there would be some people who would pay that price gladly. Afterall, the CDs they buy in the store cost about five dollars more than that, and they have no problem with paying $15, either. Music is music, and it can be just as good whether it's made by a megastar with a huge record label behind him or a nobody whom no one has ever heard of. I've personally regretted the purchase of some albums by some very big name talent, while, on the other hand, I've taken a chance on artists I didn't know existed before (and this in the days when you weren't allowed to listen to the record before buying), and found some real gems. I've bought CDs based soley upon the genre and the cover artwork, or on a review, and have seldom been disappointed. When you have plastic to pay for it with, the impulse to buy is even greater, as you say. With prices as low as pennies per track, with immediate delivery of the product right to one's desktop MP3 player (or you can save it to your portable MP3 player), who can resist? It's not like I'm talking about trying to sell my music sound unheard. The buyer can listen to, say, half of the tune first. That's more than enough to get a good impression of the music, without giving away the keys to the store. I don't think those who have portable MP3 players are thinking their MP3s aren't the "real thing," either. It's just another format, just as CDs were when they were new. And we all know that CDs were artifically priced higher, allegedly because it was a new medium competing against vinyl. Funny, the prices never went down, as promised, but CDs not only survived, they totally eclipsed vinyl and cassettes, becoming the dominant medium of music distribution. It's been prophesied that digital formats, such as MP3 are fast becoming the CDs of the 21st century. What could be more portable than a file you can download off the net and transfer to your pocket-sized player that sounds every bit as good as your old Discman? And a portable MP3 player can hold hundreds of songs. Sounds like the real thing to me.

Personally, when I'm shopping for CDs in a record store, first of all, I've usually come in to get a particular CD by a particular artist, but when I am browsing, I'm not thinking about the price per disk and asking myself "is this artist's music worth $15?" or not. I look first of all for what I like. If I find it, I buy it. Admittedly, there have been times when I only have enough money to buy three CDs I want and I see a forth I just have to have, so I've put the "lesser" of the three I'm holding back on the rack. We all do that. However, that's in a record store where every artist's CD is right next to every other artist's CD. On MY website, though, there will be only my music, so if the buyer decides he wants this track more than that track, so what? I still sell music. This is one of the advantages to selling online; you're not in close proximity to your competition. If the buyer saw something on another site, such as IUMA, that he likes more, he has to click his way back to it to buy it. I'm banking on people's laziness ("oh, heck, I don't want to go ALL THE WAY back there again!") :)
 
good thread...

-that $5 thing, i can see that happening ...i think everyone would be willing to drop 5 bones on a cd

-and i look at it like this...when the demand builds, then you jack up the price to $10

-if it was a local rap artist selling cd's, they can sell out the trunk at $10 a pop after a show easily and make several thousands of dollars in a short time

-u press up 1,000 cd's and all your total costs including overs and freight charges come out to $1800 ...u make $3200 profit from just selling @ $5

-@ $10 a pop u make $8200 profit

-i think you should always give away some of the cd's free ...but give it to people that may be able to give you some kind of exposure... most of the time you'll get overuns instead of underruns so i would give those away as the freebies, that way you still have the 1000 to sell

-aye man also if your credit is decent you should be able to qualify for financing wit Discmakers (they seem to be one of the highest price pressing plants, but they do good quality and they the only ones i know of that finance your pressing costs)

-
 
Another point, just raised, that I hadn't addressed here, yet: the do-it-yourself CD. By that, I mean, not only recording your own, but doing your own artwork, photography, graphic design, packaging and labeling. I just happen to be one of those fortunate few who has the knowledge, skills and talent (not to mention the degree in graphic design and the years of freelance experience) to pull it off. By doing my own tray cards, buying jewel cases in bulk, and doing my own shrink wrapping, I can cut the cost of production down far below what Diskmakers can offer (no, I'm NOT going to do yours for you! Heh-heh!). Not only that, but, doing it this way, I can also produce CDs on an as-needed basis (what they call "just-in-time" in the manufacturing world). In other words, an order comes in, I burn a CD, print a tray card, insert it into a jewel case, shrink wrap it, and it's ready to mail. Economy of scale, man. Now, should I be so lucky as to get 100 or more orders at once, well, then I'd consider using an outfit like Diskmakers to do the job. But, since I'm anticipating a slow trickle of business, doing my own on an as-needed basis is a lot smarter than investing $1,000 for a box of CDs that may take three years to sell.
 
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