What piece would you buy ( $1000-1300)

Jburn34

Jburn34

New member
I have a home studio in which I've been doing a good bit of recording lately. I get paid, not a whole lot, but decent enough for a college student. Most of my gear has been acquired through ebay or other used gear forums. I've resold a lot of stuff that I wasn't happy with, so it's been a good way for me to try out a lot of equipment. Most big projects I can rent stuff. I mainly do vox, acoustic guitar, percussion, electric/bass DI stuff and mixing here.

I plan on trying to save up 1000 to 1300 dollars over the next several months, and I would like to buy one good, professional level piece of gear, or maybe two less expensive things. I want something that will still be very useful when I get out of Med School (5-6 years). Here's most of my stuff so far:

Digi 002r w/ Waves Platinum
Avalon AD2022 pre
Tascam M-3500 mixer
KRK V8 monitors
Alesis Masterlink
Joe Meek VC6q
Tascam TSR-8 reel to reel
M-audio dmp3
RNC
Kurzweil K2500
Vox AD60vt guitar amp
Furman Headphone Distribution, lots of headphones

MICS: AT 4047, AKG d112, Groove Tube 66, Studio Projects C1, octava mc 012, mxl 603 stereo pair, (4) SM-57's, (3) sm-58's

I have a bunch of other smaller, insignificant stuff right now, but not worth listing.

I want to buy a piece of gear that is proven, professional level, and will compliment what I have. I don't want a piece of digital gear (unless maybe a good reverb) that will lose it's value in 5 years. I want something that will stick with me for the next many years. I'm hoping to maybe get a good mic with a partner of mine in the spring (Neumann, Lawson?) after we try a bunch out, so that most likely won't be considered.

I'm thinking something along the lines of a good compressor (1176, Distressor), EQ (speck, toft), or tube/colored preamp like the Neve 1272 or UA 610. I will probably try to get the unit used to get the most bang for the buck, unless I can afford it new.

What would your opinion be in this situation?

Thanks,
Jeremy
 
Jeremy,

> I would like to buy one good, professional level piece of gear <

You already have decent basic gear. Consider acoustic treatment, which will do more for the overall quality of your production than any high-end "one trick pony."

--Ethan
 
He's a college student though, so I kind of doubt he owns his own place. Doesn't seem like a lot of value in 5-6 years to acoustically treat a rented dwelling (assuming that's the case).

The Distressor sounds like a good plan to me, as does avoiding digital gear. However, I do believe you should not consider resale value in deciding what to buy for your studio. That is really a distant second as far as importance. There are certain items that are essential for a studio, but will also devalue considerably over time. The only real consideration is whether the item in question will do what you need it to do *today*. Any digital reverb you buy will be worth less in 5 years, but you still need it.

Looking at your gear list I'd say you probably identified two good areas to upgrade: to a Distressor, or to a digital reverb.
 
Thanks for the responses.

I am actually renting from my grandmother so I'm getting a good deal and I've actually spent a great deal of time working on acoustical treatment. Not as much as I'd like, but a good bit.

I've made several of your bass traps Ethan, along with some things I found at the Sayers site. I've still got several sheets of 703 sitting in my garage to use.

I also have been checking out the Vintech 1272 and the Toft, the ones with really good EQ's. SonicA, you're right about the resale value, I just mainly was trying to make a point that I don't want something I will have to replace because the digital format or what not is going to be outdated and incompatible.

Any suggestions about the vintech? I feel good about the distressor, I've heard so many great things, and I know a guy who has one who would probably let me rent it from him.

Jeremy
 
jeremy,

the distressor is a great tool. as is the vintech both I have used...

but J can you start by telling us what you record? are you tracking drums? what are you using all those pieces of gear on? are you a singer? whats your primary instrument? (as thats where your ultimate needs start) maybe a bit more info on what you think your weaknesses are? cause both those pieces mentioned are fantastic, but they couldnt be more farther apart in there uses.
 
why more equipment ?

i would suggest humbly you have enough equipment.
way more than enough.
i would concentrate on building your audio engineering skills if you feel something is lacking.
 
Bobalou, and Manning, thanks for both of your great responses.

I am interested in recording pretty much everything. I started a couple of years ago with a mindisc recorder (my dad's) and borrowed a board and recorded an acoustic guitar/vocal cd at a local chapel. I knew absolutely nothing about recording. I was so busy at the time we did all of it from like 8pm to 3am during weeknights, and I had class and football workouts at 7:30 the next mornings.

Pretty much all my gear has come from trading on ebay. I really search the classifieds online and find good deals. When I don't think something is worth keeping anymore or I need the money, I put it on ebay. So that's how I amassed what I have over the last couple of years. Plus I bought some stuff from my church for a real good deal.

I have been recording classical, pop rock, praise and worship, folk, spirituals, and a little bit of a mostly brass/woodwinds orchestra. Mostly over here I record guitars, bass, vox, etc. When I do drums I like to find a better room somewhere, and if it's a real big project, I just rent what I need. I don't record myself, I do play acoustic guitar, but not anything worth seriously recording. My first full length, mastered in Nashville CD just came out the other day, a project I worked on with my dad. That gave me more experience than anything I've done so far. I am also in a recording class at my college this semester, and am doing some independent study next semester over there...the control room isn't that great, but they do have a TDM system, and the room it overlooks is a pretty awesome sounding room...a big recital hall. I try to get my hands on anything I can over there, I seriously love experimenting with micing/tracking/mixing anything. I've been too busy working on my recording over here though to do a whole lot over there so far.

I definitely feel my engineering skills lack. I try to pick everyone's brains, read everything I can, and get the experience. The cd I listened to today, I realized the stuff I didn't like had nothing to do with the gear, just poor decisions/ears on my part. So I am not trying to buy anything to just make me sound good.

I am though, starting to sell all my gear I don't like, the rackfillers, mostly stuff I didn't mention in the first post. I have a dirtbike and some other stuff I am going to sell. I really want a different color pre than the Avalon, It's the best piece of gear I ever bought, and it's super clean. I actually tried many preamps from GC before I chose it. I got it brand new! It is one of the things I bought where honestly, it did immediately make my recordings sound better...Along with a good set of monitors. I also eventually want an analog, versatile compressor, one I can really learn on and hear what's going on and how to use it, and I want eventually a good analog EQ, so I will quit looking at the RenEQ graphics and "seeing" how it sounds. I really am trying to learn sounds firsthand, not by what I read. I figure the 1272 is classic. I also don't necessarily like how clean the avalon is for keys sometimes, and I don't like it for most bass DI.

I really do appreciate you being honest about improving engineering skills...they definitely need it. The gear isn't an immediate thing either, just something to shoot for . Eventually, when I'm out of med school, I want to build and own my own studio.

Thanks a lot, keep 'em coming,

Jeremy
 
You do have a decent array of gear that can afford you some quality projects.
Judging by your gear list, the only recommendations I would add IMHO is a hi-end condenser such as a Neumann that would fit right in with your mic arsenal and perhaps another hi-end pre to compliment and add variety to your frankie-Avalon.
 
Although you said you aren't looking for digital gear, I would still like to suggest a set of high quality converters and a word clock. This will improve the overall sound of the 002 more than you can imagine. I would say get a 2 channel converter from a company like Apogee, Lucid, Mytek, Benchmark and get a clock from Lucid (they are more affordable and perform wonderfully).

I recently did vocal overdubs with a client at his home. He has an MBox and a G4 Laptop. He had recorded basic tracks at a commercial studio dumped them into PT and took the session home. We plugged an Apogee Rosetta w/ Big Ben Clock into the MBox, and set the clock in PT to S/PDIF. He was so excited by the quality of sound coming out of his monitors, he couldn't believe how good it sounded. So like I said, it's just a suggestion.

As far as an analog piece of gear, I would opt for the Distressor. Great, great, great!!!

Later,
musik
 
Well, Jburn, I think your mic cabinet could be upgraded. You've got some great stuff to plug them into, and some very good cheap mics that work. Consider a serious large diaphragm condenser such as a Soundelux ifet7, or a pair of mics, such as a C414B-ULS and a Rode K2. You need a main vocal mic that's usable on guitar as well. Can't argue with the Avalon and the Digi 002. Good stuff.-Richie
 
ok J, here's what I think.

you already are loaded up with some nice gear. I agree the Avalon is your best pre. your go to mic for vocals may be lacking. however, something like a Great River ME-1NV (single channel pre $1075.00 new) is a "Nevesque" highly colored pre with a big upfront sound that would give you the "color" character you might be lacking in a go to vocal pre. plus it is a great DI for bass as well. you'd be quite suprised how well some of your mics will sound through that pre, allowing you to stall a bit longer on that go to vocal mic. (tubes and FET's both sound wonderful through that piece.

the distressoor to me would be a secondary or third need, though it is an awesome tool (believe me) I think the RNC in super nice mode is a wonderful comp to at least get your signal into PT's without being too squashed, thus giving you the chance to further compress via plugs. since you already have those nice plugs, just make sure you get into PT's with limited compression (just tame the signal)

I dont really think that converters should be high on your list just yet. the 001 converters were decent at best, but when I started tracking with high end pre's and mics, thats what made an immediate improvement in sound. I know for a fact the 002 converters are very good, certainly not apogee but they are better than the digimax, octopre, yamaha 01V's (which at the time were significant improvements over the 001) the 002 converters are on par with the newer Yamaha 01V96 A/D's....so the 002 will serve you well for some time, especially in the time it takes you to upgrade mics, pre's, etc. (I think you should let yourself grow out of the 002 and you're not there yet) also, a nice addition to the 002 would be upgrading your D/A only something like the DAC 1 by benchmark. most companies scimp in the D/A section of there converter design, so you would hear how much better the 002's A/D's are by getting a great D/A (like the DAC) you could always keep the DAC for the day you finally upgrade your A/D on the 002.

I agree the Avalon runs into problems in its character (especially voice and mics with siblance) and since you also have a very clean sounding dmp-3, I would go with a character pre. the Great River is sweet as is the Vintech. also vintech just came out with a newer version of there X73 called the X73i it goes for $1300 plus $225 for a power supply. (starting to creep out of your budget) but its a single channel Neve clone of the famed 1073 with a great EQ section (the X73i is a slightly scaled down version of the X73, but only in the multi positioned mid range sweep) that would be your neve colored pre with EQ for vocals, bass DI as well....or you could go with your initial option of the 2 channel vintech dual 1272 which would be just under the great River and the X73i. with the Great River you would still have to grab an EQ down the road something like the Speck ACS ($500ish) matches up great with the ME-1NV ($1500ish for both similar to the new X73i price) but with the Great River you could hold off on the EQ purchase until you really need one and still get into the Neve thing right now.

so as far as a possible priority list:
1. Great River or Vintech Neve color type pre for vox/bass etc.
2. A dedicated vocal mic
3. A distressor
4. An EQ
5. A DAC (D/A converter)
6. an upgrade on your A/D conversion

sorry if i wrote a book, i just got home from a gig and I'm in that winding down period...good luck bro, you're on the right track.

bobby
 
If you buy things to get better sound, you need to learn how to use every piece of equipment to it's fullest. Only when you find that there is a piece of equpment that is hindering you from getting the sounds that you want will you need to buy something else.

When you know your equipment that well, it will be obvious to YOU what YOU need to buy. Nobody else can help you.


If you just buy stuff because you need to alleviate your GAS, but somthing that gives you amazing amounts of knobs and buttons for the money. It doesn't have to make a sound. Or put $1500 into custom making the most amazing lava lamp ever, becuase you don't actually need it to make any sounds, just alleviate the GAS. :)
 
jeremy, an example

lets step back a minute. a friend of mine as an example wanted the old hit sounds of the 60's so he spent a fortune on the best of everything. and i do mean best. the result ? he was still frustrated. everything sounded really fine and clean but he could not achive the sound he wanted in his head. so i really pushed him to focus more on engineering, using natural room acoustics instead of olug ins, tape delay, even showed him how to use an old trick a speaker as a microphone. now when we did this the track sounded (with the speaker mic) Soloed really noisy, but after some editing we got a character he liked on the track when it was mixed in with other tracks and we got more the sound he heard in his head. moral; its not always true that using wacky approaches works, but sometimes it does.
as your at college if it were me i would go to the library like i used to at university and study all the old electronics and tube books i could get my hands on. lot to learn there. and no gas. except in the tubes.
 
another idea jeremy

st ives transformers and sowters and jensens are used in a lot of pro audio equipment. all you need to make a preamp is for example a st ives transformer into a low noise transistor stage.the transformer has gain built in for free. try it sometime and then test around with some R/C filters in the circuit.
If you do it correctly using your profs help maybe at uni and some
books in your library at uni, i bet you'll find you learn something very new and interesting.
 
Seeing as how you have a better than decent preamp, and were asking about compressors, but dont really have a GREAT mic collection... I would do one of the following...
Go ahead and hook into a Distressor, which is very capable of adding serious color to your sound if you want it. Also very great compression, everything from clean to hell in a can.
OR, for the same price ballpark, grab a Langevin EL-Op, and discover what a really great optical compressor sounds like. Character they have, and yo uget TWO channels... yo ucan run mixes through it or whatever if you want. OVerheads. Stereo guitars. Anything made by Manely is worth considering, so look into the El-Op.
As far as mics in your price range, check out the U195.. .easily the best LD condensor/go-to mic in the price range. Works great on 90% of what you throw at it, and better than great on some vocals.
If you could get the U195 and a nice optical compressor in the next year you would be quite happy. Thenthink about upgrading your converters.
I just bought an MP2NV for a great price used. Used is the way to go.
PEace.
Paul
 
Re: another idea jeremy

manning1 said:
st ives transformers and sowters and jensens are used in a lot of pro audio equipment. all you need to make a preamp is for example a st ives transformer into a low noise transistor stage.the transformer has gain built in for free. try it sometime and then test around with some R/C filters in the circuit.
If you do it correctly using your profs help maybe at uni and some
books in your library at uni, i bet you'll find you learn something very new and interesting.
Click to expand...


I;ve read in a million places that the circuits are easy to find and fairly easy to make, but 9 kinds of hell to get them close to right. The tweaking is the hard part. I hear compressors are even harder to get right.
 
tweaking

on the tweaking, this is where a pc program comes in or an oscilloscope for analysing . all tweaking is, is using various combinations of filtering circuits using capacitors and resistors as in the way people used to modify their guitars.
a cheap way is to just build a transformer/low noise transistor stage combination for a total gain of 40 db then if you need more gain just use a low noise line mixer. line mixers can be made from low noise op amps. i think paia have a kit for a line mixer.
or use the line input of an old mixer.
 
You have enough good gear. You don't need anything.

I have been recording classical, pop rock, praise and worship, folk, spirituals, and a little bit of a mostly brass/woodwinds orchestra.

A Vintech Dual 72 has no place in recording most of those types of music. The 72 is huge-sounding. Great for rock on a few tracks. Can sound very bad if used on a lot of tracks. Would not recommend it for what you're doing.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions
 
Dot said:
I have been recording classical, pop rock, praise and worship, folk, spirituals, and a little bit of a mostly brass/woodwinds orchestra.

A Vintech Dual 72 has no place in recording most of those types of music. The 72 is huge-sounding. Great for rock on a few tracks. Can sound very bad if used on a lot of tracks. Would not recommend it for what you're doing.

Dan Richards
Click to expand...

...unless you think having a fatter sounding kick and snare would be useful. Seems like at least a few of the genres you mention might benefit from that.
 
I've heard the the neve 1073 modules (like the vintech x73i) are a little less colored. Is this true? I'd really like a dual channel pre if that's what I go with, but it looks like a pretty good deal on the x73i, and I've heard a lot of compliments on it.

I definitely want something with more color and character than the avalon, as far as preamps go. I really am leaning towards the distressor though. It's a hard decision though, because I would like to have a few more channels of quality pre.

Jeremy
 
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