what level for vocals?

Twampy

Twampy

New member
First post for me,
I am just wonderingvif there is a magic level for placing vocals on a track. I kind of use both my ears and eyes so to speak, placing the vocals just above the rest of the track. I usually end up making the vocals a bit on the quite side but I don't want them to overpower the music. Is there standard or should it always be preference?
 
The "right level" is where you think they feel right.

One side-note I could make is that they should still sound okay if they're too quiet -- If they're being "stepped on" just a couple dB down, then find out why.
 
it's all ears.

ears decide.

now, how to make your ears 'golden', that's another question.

do a lot of studying and listening thru your monitors, of your favorite pro releases, and start there.
 
Thanks all, I have taken to listening to tracks in the car and on my phone as well as my monitors to hear the difference. Only problem there is all I listen to is one track over and over again, I take it that is normal lol.
 
Vocal track fader at 0 dbfs is the golden answer! :P

Kidding aside, actually if you've gain staged properly, most of your track faders should all be at or close to 0dbfs. Better resolution there too for when you do need to make any adjustments.
 
Like others have said, the right level will depend on factors like the song and just simply what you think sounds good. However, one thing I always do is mix vocals last. I'll usually mute the vocals or turn them down and get the rest of the song sounding balanced and good. Then when I go to dial in the vocals it's much easier for me to tell where they should sit in the mix.
 
RecordingMaster said:
Vocal track fader at 0 dbfs is the golden answer! :P

Kidding aside, actually if you've gain staged properly, most of your track faders should all be at or close to 0dbfs. Better resolution there too for when you do need to make any adjustments.
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I sure hope you mean 0db - as in unity gain on the fader - rather than 0dbfs which is loud as it gets.

willsterling23 said:
However, one thing I always do is mix vocals last. I'll usually mute the vocals or turn them down and get the rest of the song sounding balanced and good. Then when I go to dial in the vocals it's much easier for me to tell where they should sit in the mix.
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I do this more often than not with most of my own stuff, but for that the vocals are perhaps the least important element. For most things folks are recording, though, the Vox are the most important thing by far, and I think a lot of people like to build their mixes around it.

The right answer is of course that the vocals should be loud enough without being too loud. ;)
 
Twampy said:
Thanks all, I have taken to listening to tracks in the car and on my phone as well as my monitors to hear the difference. Only problem there is all I listen to is one track over and over again, I take it that is normal lol.
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A few to toss in..
I find when songs are listened to and evaluated' in a string as in assembled for in a mastering context?, is where my judgement gets a new view, and a chance to get out of micro - mix mode and, it'll take care of that part of the problem to boot.
Another is listen to them at different playback volumes! Way low (for example) gets you an awesome alt view' and mix tool!
 
From my limited experience, a lot of it is just practice -- you mix it at one level, play it on different sources and see if you like it or not.

When I am trying to get vocals to sit right, I turn the volume way down and listen, then turn it way up and listen (but not for too long!), and also go outside of my room and listen to the mix through the door. I also play it back mono, and I play it through my Avantones (which are all-mids). Sometimes it sounds fine on my monitors, but when I run it through the Avantones, the vocal is way too loud. If you test with headphones, beware that you can hear the vocals clearly in headphones even when they are too soft.

Another factor is that you have to make sure the vocal track is even throughout the song (if you want it even) either through riding the fader, automation, or compression. Unless you want a song with tons of vocal dynamics, of course...
 
Hmm, two more things!

1. If you use parallel compression on the vocal track, you can get the track to sound much harder and thicker, making it stand out without having to push it up on the fader. You can squash the hell out of it, then bring that compressed level up just enough so that it adds a certain underbelly to your vocal track. Can be better than just squashing the vocal track altogether, which leads to various problems or effects that you may or may not want.

2. EQ has a big effect on whether a vocal stands out or not. Cutting the lower-mids or boosting around 3/4kHz can make the vocal sit a lot better. Can be better than bringing up the volume of the overall vocal track.

You may already know and do all of this -- but just sharing my limited knowledge :-)
 
one thing you always have to bear in mind is how does the lead vocal sound on a crappy mono speaker. I use true mono for checking the lead vocal balance and get it sounding good on that and it will always sound right
 
their is no specific volume to place vocals at and there are hundreds of FX you can slap on them that will effect the output level. if i were you i would take a look at putting a Limiter on your final output (this is if you are not going to master the track in a seperate session). The limiter will even out all the sounds in your mix and make your vocals sound "in place"
 
Yeah, the idea of a limiter is a good one, to take out peaks. Typically, as mentioned above, you'd put the limiter at the end, but I recently came across a fellow explaining how he puts the limiter on first and then uses compression and EQ after that. In that case, he's using compression more for color than for evening out the level. I've tried it and it's an interesting approach. Whatever works!
 
Try it on a laptop speakers the poor frequency response often either makes the vocal sound over loud or vanish totally. Making a voice sit in the mix isn't just volume. It's all the things others have mentioned.
 
If we're talking more theory than technique then let us chew on this. I grew up listening to, predominantly, rock music. Rock vocals are usually as important or less important than the music itself so they're usually snuggled in pretty close to the music. Like you, I have a tendency to mix the vocals low on my first go but I take a break then listen to the song again, maybe walk around the room, walk into the other room, and I want my vocals to be intelligible and float just ever so slightly above the music. Now if I were doing a pop track, I'd probably make the vocals a bit louder to the point where I start to feel they're uncomfortably loud and then roll it back just slightly. As I learn mixing, vocal level is one of the things I obsess over, there are no rules but you have to develop your own methods of judging level and your sensibilities around it.
 
Snail said:
Yeah, the idea of a limiter is a good one, to take out peaks. Typically, as mentioned above, you'd put the limiter at the end, but I recently came across a fellow explaining how he puts the limiter on first and then uses compression and EQ after that. In that case, he's using compression more for color than for evening out the level. I've tried it and it's an interesting approach. Whatever works!
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I do it too if there are errant peaks everywhere in the signal (usually when recording straight without gentle compression).

It works really well, it also helps the next compressor work easier and if you want to make sure there aren't any others
peaks use a limiter in the end too.

But make sure the limiters to work really really gently or you'll kill the punch in no time.
 
Vocals can be difficult to balance near the end of a mix as they generally occupy a frequency range that our ears get used to after a while, When I come to balance my vocal, and I'm talking about my final static mix with all effects in place, i.e. eq, compression and reverb/delay... I set it at a level I think is right and I then lower it 3db, at this point I click save and go and have a coffee and a cigarette. After 30 mins I go back to my mix and have a listen, I can then fine tune the level, it may be perfect, it may need a db or 2 either way but I find that this is what works for me, also listen to your mix at a very high level for about 30 secs and then really low level for 30 secs, thats another technique I use.... Try as many techniques that have been suggested here and use what works for you. Hope you find something useful.
 
Vocal levels vary so much its totally up to whatever you decide.

Some genres have the vocals blended into the mix you can barely make out the lyrics, others have the vocal as loud as all the other instruments combined.

Whatever works.
 
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