What is it about the Tube Preamp

C

Cudmasters Los

New member
What is it about the the tube pre amp that everyone says to get? Because it warms up the sound, is it really that different, or is it just the name. Should i go that route or not? Any thoughts?
 
It just seems that whenever the subject comes up with my friends or music stores where i live, "Everyone":) mentions the tube. Pretty constant so i'm assuming that the majority of musicians feel the same way.

I have another post below "Racks" about buying the behringer 1952 ultragain, 'cause it's not expensive. But at least i avoid the mixer so i can go straight to the computer , but i was told not the behringer, to go with another model, which i'm sure has to be good coming from the replier that it was, i was just curious about the tube, ...........and behringer?
 
Cudmasters Los said:
I have another post below "Racks" about buying the behringer 1952 ultragain, 'cause it's not expensive. But at least i avoid the mixer so i can go straight to the computer
Click to expand...

What's the point? If you're going to bypass the preamps in your mixer, get a preamp that is better than those in the mixer.

I think some people like tube pre-amps because they are more forgiving than solid state when you drive them hard and they allow the preamp to add a distinct color to whatever passes through them that is pleasing to the ear of the engineer.
 
Cudmasters Los said:
It just seems that whenever the subject comes up with my friends or music stores where i live, "Everyone":) mentions the tube.
Click to expand...

The deal is that Behringer knows this. Art knows this. Studio Projects and many other companies know that all of your friends are saying you gotta' have the tubes. :D

So they design a mic pre that isn't really a tube mic pre, and they put a little window on it . . . and they even stick a light in there to where you can see the tube -- which is basically no more useful than a Christmas decoration. All in the hopes of getting guys like yourself to notice it and buy it.

A lot of people like the sound of good tube equipment, and for very good reason. The problem is that good tube gear is prohibitively expensive to design and manufacture. In fact the cheapest "good" tube mic pre I can think of is about $700 used off ebay, and it had to be discontinued because the company wasn't making any money off of it.

Cheap tube gear usually just sounds nasty. There, is, however, plenty of very decent-sounding, affordable solid-state stuff out there. In your budget range, you can either get decent solid state or crappy tube. Generally speaking, of course. Your choice.
 
I agree with chessrock but i will tell you why older tube gear and soild state preamps like API and Neve sound great.

TRANSFORMERS!!!!!!!

meaning any preamp with a walwart or cheap transformers in it, like a Bellari RP 220 is going to suck. tubes do shit alone but when they are working with a good transformer like UTC, Jensen or Lundahl its going to sound great.
 
well put dune

agreed dune. in fact ive found for a cheap pre, a good transformer into a simple one stage low noise transistor
like a 2n5088 giving a gain of ten plus then for added gain into a clean line mixer can give you a real nice signal for cheap.
sssh - dont tell too many about this trick. its cheap and it works with no BS. the main cost is the xformer. no tubes.
the beauty of it is the xformer gives you free gain.
merry xmas
 
dune5233 said:
I agree with chessrock but i will tell you why older tube gear and soild state preamps like API and Neve sound great.

TRANSFORMERS!!!!!!!

meaning any preamp with a walwart or cheap transformers in it, like a Bellari RP 220 is going to suck. tubes do shit alone but when they are working with a good transformer like UTC, Jensen or Lundahl its going to sound great.
Click to expand...

That's a very good point. And I think oftentimes people confuse the two, and they think the reason they like it is because of the tube, when in reality it may actually be the tranny they like.

I have to disagree on the Bellari. The RP-220 isn't a wallwart, and the tranformer isn't too bad. It's a little dirty, but that's part of it's charm. Of all the cheap tube crap out there, that one is actually the closest thing to the actual deal. I think it's a very cool thing to have around.
 
So they design a mic pre that isn't really a tube mic pre, and they put a little window on it . . . and they even stick a light in there to where you can see the tube -- which is basically no more useful than a Christmas decoration. All in the hopes of getting guys like yourself to notice it and buy it.
Click to expand...

I agree whole-heartedly with this statement. In "budget level" gear, its really a marketing ploy. A buzz word used to sell gear to people that don't really know better.

But listen for yourself: http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1656&alid=-1

SM81's thru Audix35102 no eq - Very Nice!


December's Mist. - Nice!

The 35102 is of course a vintage solid state pre with really good transformers.

December's Mist was done using an ART PRO MPA. A toob pre if you will.

While they both sound very different, and even used different mics and placements, I think those samples are pretty indicative of a toob pre, and a solid state pre.

While the ART is not EVEN in the same class as the 35102, it is possible to get a very nice sound from it. As with any piece of gear, you just have to learn how to use it, and recognize its limitations.
If you don't drive the toob too hard, you can get a nice sound.
If you do drive it too hard, you get the "bumble bees in tin foil" effect.
 
Last edited:
Cudmasters Los said:
What is it about the the tube pre amp that everyone says to get? Because it warms up the sound, is it really that different, or is it just the name. Should i go that route or not? Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Case in point.....

I recently rented an ART Digital Preamp (that has a TUBE in it)....in order to see "IF" it would add any 'warmth' to the sound of my Line6 XTPRO modeller I use for direct recording via Cubase SX.

NADA, Zilch, nothing........the ART Tube pre didn't add any warmth at all.....in fact, the XTPRO sounds better on it's own, coz the ART did colour the sound a tad....

I admit, the ART I used was a cheapo unit, at around $300 bucks, perhaps a better $1,000+ model would produce better results..

An engineer once said to me, warmth is in the EQ, not tubes...guitarists get over it!!! :)

I think that statement was pretty close to the truth....

KEV
 
Here's another perspective. I read an article somewhere in the depths of the Mojopie site talking about the whole digital "chill" issue. The author noted the usual criticism that digital recordings have the reputation of being cold, harsh, or brittle. With this in mind, many people try to insert a tube device somewhere in the signal chain to warm things up. Thus the prevalence of tube gear expensive or not. The author went on to note, however, that if you feel your digital recordings are harsh or brittle, don't look to the mic or the tube preamp for solutions; look instead at your A/D converters. I don't know how accurate this perspective is but it's worth a closer look. Maybe we spend to much time talking about mics and preamps? Maybe there should be more attention given to converters? Who knows.
 
Re: Re: What is it about the Tube Preamp

Kevzmusic said:
An engineer once said to me, warmth is in the EQ, not tubes...guitarists get over it!!! :)
Click to expand...

If that were true, then why is it that there hasn't been one accurate tube amp emulator released to date? I'm not a tube fanatic (I would rather have good solid state mic preamps than tube any day), but I do believe in a certain "tube magic" with guitar amps. I enjoy both flavors for different situations, but when it comes to nice overdriven tone, I look no further than a tube amp.

Call me a slave to the tube industry, I don't care. I spent years trying to get solid state to sound like tubes and I'm done fighting. I don't have the time or money to waste searching for the solid state tube alternative when the sound I want is tube and I can get it by simply buying a tube amp.


RAAARARRR!!!
I'm okay, really!
 
Re: Re: Re: What is it about the Tube Preamp

rvdsm said:
If that were true, then why is it that there hasn't been one accurate tube amp emulator released to date? I'm not a tube fanatic (I would rather have good solid state mic preamps than tube any day), but I do believe in a certain "tube magic" with guitar amps. I enjoy both flavors for different situations, but when it comes to nice overdriven tone, I look no further than a tube amp.

Call me a slave to the tube industry, I don't care. I spent years trying to get solid state to sound like tubes and I'm done fighting. I don't have the time or money to waste searching for the solid state tube alternative when the sound I want is tube and I can get it by simply buying a tube amp.


RAAARARRR!!!
I'm okay, really!
Click to expand...

Maybe that's more true in LIVE situations....but many have said on this forum (and others)....that within a MIX, nobody can really tell between something recorded via solid state, a real tube amp, or even a modeller....

Neve consols don't have tubes in them - do they! :)

A friend of mine down in South Africa, has used a POD 2.3 on his last 2-3 CD's.....and I certainly can't tell any difference, from an end-listener perspective.....

Personally, I feel that with experienced EQ 'fine tuning' one can obtain great results no matter what the medium/vehicle used.

A lot of 'real' amps sound harsh/gritty/abrasive when used stand alone, without a whole bunch of stomps, FX, EQ etc....

It's the added post-production, in the hands of a great audio engineer, that produces those mega tones we hear on our fav CD's...

KEV
 
chessrock said:
I have to disagree on the Bellari. The RP-220 isn't a wallwart, and the tranformer isn't too bad. It's a little dirty, but that's part of it's charm. Of all the cheap tube crap out there, that one is actually the closest thing to the actual deal. I think it's a very cool thing to have around.
Click to expand...


I actually own a bellari rp220 which is being moded as we speak i think this is a cool design cause the tube runs at 250v but made with cheap parts preventing it from sounding musical. i bought it so i could have a pre that would overdrive with easy, which it does but it sounded like a bad distortion pedal.
 
dune5233 said:
I actually own a bellari rp220 which is being moded as we speak i think this is a cool design cause the tube runs at 250v but made with cheap parts preventing it from sounding musical. i bought it so i could have a pre that would overdrive with easy, which it does but it sounded like a bad distortion pedal.
Click to expand...

Yea, it really doesn't do the overdrive thing very well. :D I wouldn't bother with it, either. It's not supposed to. You're very likely to be clipping the output opamps, which is not going to sound very pretty.

I think it sounds cool, though, moded or unmoded.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: What is it about the Tube Preamp

Kevzmusic said:
many have said on this forum (and others)....that within a MIX, nobody can really tell between something recorded via solid state, a real tube amp, or even a modeller....

Neve consols don't have tubes in them - do they! :)
Click to expand...


No offense, but I'm curious as to where you're getting this from. Tube gear is very easy to discern in a mix. Most people on this site would have a pretty intensely hair-splitting time picking out a Neve pre in the mix, though. Would be pretty damn tough even in solo mode, actually.

I have no idea where you're getting this from, but I don't think it's very scientifically derived.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is it about the Tube Preamp

chessrock said:
I have no idea where you're getting this from, but I don't think it's very scientifically derived.
Click to expand...


I think he was referring to tube guitar sound vs emulator/solid state guitar sound.

I don't know why he mentioned tubes not being in a neve. Imagine if there were though. JESUS!!! You'd need a central air unit just for the console!
 
Why go to audio school when i got u guys

This is really helping me out alot. You know the main reason why i was going this route is because a freind of mine did recording with someone else, and it sounded alot better than my recording. I have so much more equipment than this other guy does but I have to admit his vocals made the difference. My music studo is all digital, mpc 2000, proteus 2000, and sonar, also adats. I have a Behringer MX 3282, I have to run the mike into the channel, bus to the subs, out the sub output into my layla. So i figured if i bypass the behringer mixer thru the tube preamp i can avoid all of the mixer components, which i'm assuming is making the vocals sound horrible, and it will be a cleaner sound. Maybe the the best but better....for my budget of coarse:)

I know what your thinking , "then why go to a behringer again"? Duh!!! I know it's stupid but i figure its got to be better than the mixer and i can get it for under $200?

Does this make any sense:confused:
 
Tube guitar amps...Not only sound but...feel different than solidstate..This includes modelers..There is a certain softness to the feel of a tube amp.IMO..maybe someone can explane why..As to tube gear is it something like "euphonics"..Where are the smart guys..I need answers stat!



Don
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top