I am a vocalist in country music. I go alot of places and sing but never have recorded in a proffesional studio. I have recorded in a small home studio and results sound like crap. I don't understand how i sound so good when singing live, but sound off key in certain places recorded. The music also doesn't have the kick to it. I go to lots of concerts and hear these professionals sing. If you listen closely alot of times you can here mistakes in their voice. Why is it that they sound so good on record and not as in concert. Are there certain devices to make you sound better. y
vocals
- Thread starter cdunn
- Start date
Well,
At a live concert the performer only gets one chance to sing it right. In a studio they may sing a song twenty times to get a keeper take. Also, in the studio they can record a take and then go back and rerecord just a small section if they wish to get rid a mistake. Plus, studios use tons of fancy equipment like compressors and reverbs and whatnot to make it sound good.
Tucci
At a live concert the performer only gets one chance to sing it right. In a studio they may sing a song twenty times to get a keeper take. Also, in the studio they can record a take and then go back and rerecord just a small section if they wish to get rid a mistake. Plus, studios use tons of fancy equipment like compressors and reverbs and whatnot to make it sound good.
Tucci
Buck62
噛んでくれ
The reason that you didn't sound as good in the studio was that most singers (especially karaoke singers) sing in bars where the room acoustics are different, they've had a few drinks, and "think" that they sound pretty good.
The bar patrons think so, too... but remember, they've been drinking!
Being in a controlled environment with nothing but a microphone in front of you is a totally different situation. What you put on tape is exactly what you sang into that mic... and it's completely unforgiving.
I have a friend who is an awesome karaoke singer (with her own karaoke business) who can copy about 20 different female rock singers with absolute perfection.
The minute she stepped into my studio, she just couldn't get comfortable and needed 4 hours and 12 shots of Southern Comfort before she finally got the vocal track laid down just right.... and this girl sings about 6 songs a night, 5 nights a week with perfection!
It takes a bit to get used to, but eventually it gets easier in the studio environment. You just have to settle down and keep trying until you get it right.
It takes time.
The bar patrons think so, too... but remember, they've been drinking!
Being in a controlled environment with nothing but a microphone in front of you is a totally different situation. What you put on tape is exactly what you sang into that mic... and it's completely unforgiving.
I have a friend who is an awesome karaoke singer (with her own karaoke business) who can copy about 20 different female rock singers with absolute perfection.
The minute she stepped into my studio, she just couldn't get comfortable and needed 4 hours and 12 shots of Southern Comfort before she finally got the vocal track laid down just right.... and this girl sings about 6 songs a night, 5 nights a week with perfection!
It takes a bit to get used to, but eventually it gets easier in the studio environment. You just have to settle down and keep trying until you get it right.
It takes time.
cdunn,
Other than what Tucci and Buck62 said, professional studios also have devices like Antares Autotune, Eventide harmonizers or other pitch correcting devices to get things in tune after recording. After they spend lots of time to get the vocals close to perfect, automatic pitch correcting devices such as these get things even closer to perfect.
I've read a lot of gear lists from commercial studios that list some the gear I mentioned above. I can only assume that they're using this stuff in recordings or at mixdown.
Rev E
Other than what Tucci and Buck62 said, professional studios also have devices like Antares Autotune, Eventide harmonizers or other pitch correcting devices to get things in tune after recording. After they spend lots of time to get the vocals close to perfect, automatic pitch correcting devices such as these get things even closer to perfect.
I've read a lot of gear lists from commercial studios that list some the gear I mentioned above. I can only assume that they're using this stuff in recordings or at mixdown.
Rev E
gibs
New member
I have heard that there is a real time device that people use in live concerts to correct vocals...if this is not an urban legend, which it might be, I wonder how it would work...seems like there'd have to be some kind of delay so the thing could process the signal, and if that was the case, wouldn't the singer have an awful time trying to keep in beat?......probably just a rumor.....gibs
Buck62,
I've never personally heard it in a studio environment yet. But from what I understand, there are many, many commercial records made with it.
It's usually used at mixdown after the vocals or other material has been sung. In a live setting, it it's heard by the audience, but the singer will not monitor the "tuned" version. It seems that it is used best to correct minor pitch problems where the take may be the best emotional take, but has a few minor pitch problems. From the sounds of it, many pop vocals (especially the backgrounds) have some sort of pitch correction in them. Do you really think that these boy bands and others can harmonize so precisely in tune?
I've been told that Kid Rock's "Only God Knows Why" makes heavy use of Autotune or some other pitch correction device. By the way, I've seen a scaled down software version of Antares Autotune for $99. I think that the full software version is ~$200. I'm not sure where I saw it, but it was one of the common major gear retailers.
Rev E
I've never personally heard it in a studio environment yet. But from what I understand, there are many, many commercial records made with it.
It's usually used at mixdown after the vocals or other material has been sung. In a live setting, it it's heard by the audience, but the singer will not monitor the "tuned" version. It seems that it is used best to correct minor pitch problems where the take may be the best emotional take, but has a few minor pitch problems. From the sounds of it, many pop vocals (especially the backgrounds) have some sort of pitch correction in them. Do you really think that these boy bands and others can harmonize so precisely in tune?
I've been told that Kid Rock's "Only God Knows Why" makes heavy use of Autotune or some other pitch correction device. By the way, I've seen a scaled down software version of Antares Autotune for $99. I think that the full software version is ~$200. I'm not sure where I saw it, but it was one of the common major gear retailers.
Rev E
head over to Antaeres' site and download the 10 day fully working demo (just use it when you have a bunch of vocals to do). Also, check out their mic modelling program (also for 10 days). The web address isn't antaeres.com and I don't remember what it is...never mind, found it! www.antares-systems.com
yo yo yo, check it out, dawgs!
this assumes that you are using your computer for your tracking (I think it's VST and DX)
yo yo yo, check it out, dawgs!
this assumes that you are using your computer for your tracking (I think it's VST and DX)
Tucci,
I can understand your point, but... as homerecordists, we often wonder what it is that high-end commercial studios are using to get those amazing sounds. Well, this tool is one of them. It's not a cure-all, and overuse of it (unless it's being used as an effect) will make things sound weird. Before you pass judgement on it, think about this:
Do you overdub in your recordings?
Do you ever play a part over until it's perfect or close to perfect?
Do you use an effects processor/compressor/EQ?
Do you multitrack your recordings?
If you do any of these then you've produced something that's not technically a "natural", "real" or "live" performance. Anything after the first take is not technically a "natural" or "raw" performance.
The real question is what are you striving for in your recordings? Many people (definetly, commercial labels and producers) are striving for perfection or a "perfect" emotional performance. After all, these records are going to be down in history for ages to come. So if one is striving for perfection, it's obvious that pitch is an issue of concern.
I agree with you that it's a scary proposition to have devices that make people sing in tune, but unless you're into recording everything live, unprocessed and unedited, then you are doing something "unnatural" to some degree. Pick your poison or your degree of poison, but either way, it's still poison.
Rev E
I can understand your point, but... as homerecordists, we often wonder what it is that high-end commercial studios are using to get those amazing sounds. Well, this tool is one of them. It's not a cure-all, and overuse of it (unless it's being used as an effect) will make things sound weird. Before you pass judgement on it, think about this:
Do you overdub in your recordings?
Do you ever play a part over until it's perfect or close to perfect?
Do you use an effects processor/compressor/EQ?
Do you multitrack your recordings?
If you do any of these then you've produced something that's not technically a "natural", "real" or "live" performance. Anything after the first take is not technically a "natural" or "raw" performance.
The real question is what are you striving for in your recordings? Many people (definetly, commercial labels and producers) are striving for perfection or a "perfect" emotional performance. After all, these records are going to be down in history for ages to come. So if one is striving for perfection, it's obvious that pitch is an issue of concern.
I agree with you that it's a scary proposition to have devices that make people sing in tune, but unless you're into recording everything live, unprocessed and unedited, then you are doing something "unnatural" to some degree. Pick your poison or your degree of poison, but either way, it's still poison.
Rev E
sonusman
Banned
Gotta jump in here for this. I only have one point to make.
I listen to guys like Brad Delp (Boston), Ann Wilson (Heart), Mickey what's his name (Jefferson Starship), etc....and they all managed to record very "in tune" vocals, in seemingly impossible ranges without the help of ANY pitch correction devices at all. In fact, listen to Brad Delp layer many backup vocals in chorus's in Boston tunes!!! Man alive!!!
I have a project on the shelf that I have never posted any mp3's of a local female singer who just has incredible pitch. Very few overdubs at all. Usually the overdubs were timing problems, or dynamics that caused the punch in.
I think that you may find the toy's to be used with "made up" artists more then the ligitimate singers out there who actually have some talent....
gibs, concerning those auto tune boxes, they all have a little delay in the processing. Depending upon how far it will correct depends upon how delayed it is. Obviously, the farther out of tune, the more the processor has to work to correct, thus, longer processing delay. But, I can see the box working in very small incremental ways for very very minor corrections without any noticable delay to the listener. When I played with the Digitech Studio Vocalist box, if the correction was set to just a few cents or so, you couldn't hear any delay. But when you start trying to correct major intonation problems, there was a significant delay. I think people using them live are primarily using them as sort of a sweetening effect, and not pitch correction. In fact, the Digitech unit I used for a while made some of the best sounding digital chorus I have ever heard (I am no fan of digital chorus at all mind you...). So possibly that is what people are using them live for. Just a little blend of an enharmonic tone mixed back a ways to sort of give the voice a colorful quality. Certainly the delayed signal too will help beef up a somewhat weak vocalist live. These touring acts sing a lot, and probably like the extra little support the box give their voice... Who knows....
Anyway. cdunn, the stuff mentioned here about the difference between what you hear in your head during a live performance and what you hear on tape is all quite true. I like the karaoke references because there was a time when I hosted a lot of Karaoke, and people thought I was a killer singer!!! My god, one listen to me on tape would cure them of that.....
Really. I have heard myself of tape too many times, and my singing voice is just not up to the task for good vocal recordings. As a backup singer I do pretty well, but leads are not my thing. My intonation is just not consistent enough for tape....oh well....
If you are looking to really improve your vocal performances on tape, hire a vocal coach for a while. Many serious singers have vocals coaches. Start looking at credits on CD's and you will see special thanks sometimes to these people. I have a CD of a Seattle band called the Super Sonic Soul Pimps, they used a vocal coach in the studio and the vocals are just outright killer. I got to talk to the producer/engineer of the CD, and no fancy editing, vocal enhancements. Just plain good ol' singing.
Good luck.
Ed
I listen to guys like Brad Delp (Boston), Ann Wilson (Heart), Mickey what's his name (Jefferson Starship), etc....and they all managed to record very "in tune" vocals, in seemingly impossible ranges without the help of ANY pitch correction devices at all. In fact, listen to Brad Delp layer many backup vocals in chorus's in Boston tunes!!! Man alive!!!
I have a project on the shelf that I have never posted any mp3's of a local female singer who just has incredible pitch. Very few overdubs at all. Usually the overdubs were timing problems, or dynamics that caused the punch in.
I think that you may find the toy's to be used with "made up" artists more then the ligitimate singers out there who actually have some talent....
gibs, concerning those auto tune boxes, they all have a little delay in the processing. Depending upon how far it will correct depends upon how delayed it is. Obviously, the farther out of tune, the more the processor has to work to correct, thus, longer processing delay. But, I can see the box working in very small incremental ways for very very minor corrections without any noticable delay to the listener. When I played with the Digitech Studio Vocalist box, if the correction was set to just a few cents or so, you couldn't hear any delay. But when you start trying to correct major intonation problems, there was a significant delay. I think people using them live are primarily using them as sort of a sweetening effect, and not pitch correction. In fact, the Digitech unit I used for a while made some of the best sounding digital chorus I have ever heard (I am no fan of digital chorus at all mind you...). So possibly that is what people are using them live for. Just a little blend of an enharmonic tone mixed back a ways to sort of give the voice a colorful quality. Certainly the delayed signal too will help beef up a somewhat weak vocalist live. These touring acts sing a lot, and probably like the extra little support the box give their voice...
Who knows....Anyway. cdunn, the stuff mentioned here about the difference between what you hear in your head during a live performance and what you hear on tape is all quite true. I like the karaoke references because there was a time when I hosted a lot of Karaoke, and people thought I was a killer singer!!! My god, one listen to me on tape would cure them of that.....
Really. I have heard myself of tape too many times, and my singing voice is just not up to the task for good vocal recordings. As a backup singer I do pretty well, but leads are not my thing. My intonation is just not consistent enough for tape....oh well....If you are looking to really improve your vocal performances on tape, hire a vocal coach for a while. Many serious singers have vocals coaches. Start looking at credits on CD's and you will see special thanks sometimes to these people. I have a CD of a Seattle band called the Super Sonic Soul Pimps, they used a vocal coach in the studio and the vocals are just outright killer. I got to talk to the producer/engineer of the CD, and no fancy editing, vocal enhancements. Just plain good ol' singing.
Good luck.
Ed
Getting back to the original question, cdunn, this may be obvious, but check your monitor mix, to make sure you are hearing your voice in relation with the music. Also, are you using chorus on your vocal? This can bend the pitch and make you sound just a little off key, especially when a lot of chorus is applied.
six
New member
Hey cdunn, I'm not THAT good in singing - but think about that: when you sing karaoke or in another live situation, people will forget what they heard. Smaller mistakes will not even be noticed.
Recording your singing, it will exist for as long as you like - on tape or on hard drive, whatever. You can even rewind and listen to your mistakes over and over again. So that's probably why you - and I'm sure other people too - think you sound that good live.
Another question: do you think it's because you're off pitch?
I myself don't like my singing and think it sounds awful because I don't like my voice (recorded). I don't have much problems with intonation - anyway, that's not not the point, it's more the sound of the voice. that's why I don't give a sh*t on auto-tuners.
puah, that was long. sorry for my bad english - haven't had that much practice lately
Recording your singing, it will exist for as long as you like - on tape or on hard drive, whatever. You can even rewind and listen to your mistakes over and over again. So that's probably why you - and I'm sure other people too - think you sound that good live.
Another question: do you think it's because you're off pitch?
I myself don't like my singing and think it sounds awful because I don't like my voice (recorded). I don't have much problems with intonation - anyway, that's not not the point, it's more the sound of the voice. that's why I don't give a sh*t on auto-tuners.
puah, that was long. sorry for my bad english - haven't had that much practice lately