Vocals volume in the mix

H

HomeMadeHitShow

Member
Hey there, I am a simple home recorder with a question. Please keep that in mind when answering ;)

I have started having trouble with vocal volumes in my mixes. Typically if I get the levels right on one system, they are typically too loud or too quiet on another. For example a good monitor mix will sound too loud in headphones or two quiet in the car. I also find the vocal volumes too loud when the song is played at low volume.

The problem of course is that if I fix for one system then it messes up another.

I am thinking this may be more of an EQ or compression issue. Any thoughts on this for the home recordist would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Tony
 
HomeMadeHitShow said:
Hey there, I am a simple home recorder with a question. Please keep that in mind when answering ;)

I have started having trouble with vocal volumes in my mixes. Typically if I get the levels right on one system, they are typically too loud or too quiet on another. For example a good monitor mix will sound too loud in headphones or two quiet in the car. I also find the vocal volumes too loud when the song is played at low volume.

The problem of course is that if I fix for one system then it messes up another.

I am thinking this may be more of an EQ or compression issue. Any thoughts on this for the home recordist would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Tony
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From another home recording hobbiest, to another :-)

I had the same kind of issues when I was mixing in a very bad room.... my room was un treated for any type of acoustic properties. I have since changed rooms and have treated the new room with homemade bass traps, sound absorbers and various applications of acoustic foam and ceiling tiles.... my mixes are much more "portable" now (still drum heavy, but working on that)

also, the monitors you mix with could add to that same problem of differnt levels. I use Alesis monitor ones, and they seem to do the trick for me.

if its the overall volume levels, then you need to experiment with some mastering.. maybe mastering is the wrong term to use here, I am sure somebody will correct me. but good use of compression goes a long way :-)
 
Totally a monitoring issue.

Keeping in mind that you're a "simple home recorder," then I probably wouldn't worry about it too much, since these are very common problems for amateur / hobbyists.

If by some chance you should decide to become more serious about this stuff, then you would need more accurate monitors, and you need to be monitoring in an accoutically optimized environment if you want to improve your situation. Both scenarios will necessitate a serious amount of time, effort and $$ to accomplish, but it's not totally unfeasible. Lots of people do it.

.
 
Thanks to both but it doesn't really address my question directly. Lets say I get monitors and get a good vocal volume on them, does that really mean that it's going to sound right in the car and on the iPod and on the home stereo. It's a question of balance across playback devices more than a specific mix question - at least I think it is.

Thanks

Tony
 
Think of it this way:

When you take your favorite commercial CD by your favorite band and play it on all thre playback systems, does it sound good on only one of them?

G.
 
Monitors will most definately help you achieve a more accurate mix. When I first got started I told myself all I needed was some bx5's and I'd be cool. Wrong, had problems just like yours among many many others. If you're serious at all spend the dough and get some good monitors, you'll immediately notice a difference, treated room or not.
 
I still don't understand the better monitors reasoning. Right now I can get what sounds like a good mix on my monitors but it doesn't sound the same on other listening devices - how will better monitors help with that.

A dumb but genuine question.
 
HomeMadeHitShow said:
I still don't understand the better monitors reasoning. Right now I can get what sounds like a good mix on my monitors but it doesn't sound the same on other listening devices - how will better monitors help with that.

A dumb but genuine question.
Click to expand...

with "sub-par" monitors/speakers, youre not hearing a true representation of whats actually going on.

for example, when you listen to music through headphones, you typically hear the bass frequencies very well, correct?

now lets say you were mixing using headphones... you would compensate for the boomy bass by turning it down some, right?

so you end up getting your mix sounding pretty good, so you burn it to cd and give it a listen in your car. immediately you find yourself wondering where the bass is...... wanna know where it went??

YOU turned it down!!

...because of what you heard in your headphones. the 'phones werent giving you a true representation of the mix. same goes for all "sub-par" monitors/speakers. the room youre mixing in has a lot to do with it too, but im not experienced enough with that to explain it.

if new monitors dont fit in your budget, (like they dont in mine :mad: ) do like i do -- listen to commercial mixes through the speakers you mix with, and compare those to your own.
 
Take a look on "Search this forum", right side, above, and search "monitors" . You will see many Threads about.

Ciro
 
HomeMadeHitShow said:
That might be useful if I was asking about monitors but I'm not :rolleyes:
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Stop being a little cocksucker and open your ears. When you mix and it doesn't sound right on other sources that means what you're mixing on is lying to you. If you get some really good monitors they will not lie to you so much thus creating a more accurate mix on all platforms. You need to pull your head out of your ass little boy.
 
jonnyc said:
Stop being a little cocksucker and open your ears. When you mix and it doesn't sound right on other sources that means what you're mixing on is lying to you. If you get some really good monitors they will not lie to you so much thus creating a more accurate mix on all platforms. You need to pull your head out of your ass little boy.
Click to expand...

:eek: :eek: :eek:

well said! .........and its all truth too............. :eek:
 
Don´t forget that using a "hi-fi non flat" type system (that commonly boosts lows and highs, without saying about another critical parameters), on an "untreated" room, which usually has peaks around ~+12/15 db on important low frequencies (~120, 200..) , will let you tottaly lost about
important decisions with EQ, Compression, etc... on your mix.
You even can make a aceptable mix, but thats a matter of "good luck" .

(edit):

Phones even can help on an "I`M LOST" situation, but what happens?
"My songs sounds good on place "A" and bad on "B,C..."

Ciro
 
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Ditto on the monitor answer, and you really should either listen to this advice or stop asking the question. I may have some immediate help for you though. It sounds like part of the problem may be monitoring level related, and you may be discovering the effects of the Fletcher/Munson curve. Basically, as level increases, the balance of low and high frequencies we hear changes. With increasing level, there's an increase in the amount of low frequency content we hear. Conversely, at lower volumes, it seems that the bass gets turned down more than the higher frequency stuff. As you adjust the level of your vocal, check it at different levels, and find where it sits reasonably well at both louder and softer monitoring levels.
Now, next time you ask a question, and everyone is telling you what you don't want to hear, don't be a horse's ass. If everyone's telling you it's a duck, it's probably a duck. Your monitoring chain has EVERYTHING to do with how well your mixes translate to other systems.
 
If it helps, it's not a bad idea to have multiple monitoring sources available while you're mixing so you can strike a balance. For example, if you have "reference" grade monitors, phones, some home stereo type speakers, and maybe even a boom box, you can get a pretty good idea of how your mix translates.
 
i too had that same kind of problem with mixes sounding different on different systems, especially in my car. I have since pretty much corrected the problem by really examing some commercial cd's that i like the sound of and spend hours trying to get my mixes to sound as close to it as possible. Also if u are like me.........i have several amps and a crossover network in car with all this bass boost, filter this, filter that crap so that was really decieving me. But like i said now i just spend hours with my monitors and reference my mix to commercial cds. Once i get the sound pretty much to the commercial level, i am pretty sure it sounds good on my other systems and it usually does. And i am pretty much a newbie/hobbyist like you
 
CIRO said:
Take a look on "Search this forum", right side, above, and search "monitors" . You will see many Threads about.

Ciro
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Remember my message? I was trying to help , you and your ears, that probably will never works. And you gave me neg points for my "advice".
The worst is that I did a big mistake and sent POSITIVE REPS to you. And call you idiot, that´s what you are.

CIRO
 
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