Vocal Recording Tricks?

W

westermane

New member
Hi all-

I'm working on my vocals right now and would like your advice. When I listen to a lot of pro CDs, the voice sounds very full, like they recorded it two times - but it seems too perfectly matched to be two separate recordings. I've heard before that a trick is to record your vocals, copy the track over, and then delay one of the tracks by about 1/8 of a second. Do you guys use this trick? I'm just trying to figure out some ways to get my vocals sounding a bit stronger/fuller. And I have used some compression already in case you were wondering. Any advice would be appreciated!

Thanks as always...
 
I delay it for about 30-40 ms. The human brain doesn't accept anything less than 30ms so to make the effect usefull it will have to be more than that
 
How's that Wally???

The human brain doesn't accept anything less than 30ms so to make the effect usefull it will have to be more than that
Click to expand...

I fatten tracks using a delay between 4-20ms on the doubled track occasionally - it adds another very noticeable dimension to the sound!
 
It's how diffusors work. Sound is refected around diffusing it, or relection that gets back to your ears in less than 30 ms. Anything less than thirty is hyped. You brain tell you what it wants to hear.
 
I set my processor for about 10 ms. I have no way to measure if thats actually what the delay is, but I have no reason to doubt it. The shorter the delay, the more subtle the effect. 10 ms works for me !

I don't know how to get the sound your looking for. Sometimes they get that big ,full sound, yet I can't hear any reverb or delay. It sounds dry, but full.

Twist
 
You lost me Wally...

Any reflections that arrive within 20 milliseconds of the first generally add to the impression of loudness of the sound. Any reflections that arrive more than 40 milliseconds after the first may be heard as a distinct echo, but are usually accepted as reverberation.

Reflections that arrive between 20 and 40 milliseconds after the direct sound can be confusing and interfere with understanding if the sounds are speech.

Sound travels about 1 foot in 1 mS... so in my example of duping a track and delaying it 4 mS - this simulates the effect of a direct sound followed by a reflected sound occurring about 4 ft away from the source.... it is a very audible phenomenon. These early direct reflections are what can make or break the sound a mic picks up from a recorded source.

I'm not sure where you're coming from when you say "The human brain doesn't accept anything less than 30ms so to make the effect usefull it will have to be more than that..." This is simply untrue in the context of early reflections that we can hear ALL the time!

:confused:

Bruce
 
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From what Ive read and heard, the hears wont pick up the two tracks as separate on vocals with 30ms or less delay,but as one fatter track...so to say the effect is useless is incorrect....
 
Ahhh!

If you mean so that the effect is still distinguishable as an effect, then I can see where you're coming from WC...

The technique I was describing applies to simulate early reflections, which although part of all sound, would not be noticeable as an effect on its own.......

I get ya now!

:)

Bruce
 
Bruce
I'm glad you understand. He wanted to make it sound like 2 vocal tracks, so yet less than 30 or so, will make it sound fuller, but there is no way you can hear seperation of the 2 tracks. 30ms and above have a definate seperation, and sounds like it was overdubed exactly the same, because they are exactly the same, just delayed just enough to hear both just barely. Works great on acoustic guitars as well.
 
Actually, he wanted to make the vocal track sound stronger and fuller, and 30ms will do it...Lets not get lost in whos right or wrong and forget what the guys wants to do.....
 
A FIGHT! A FIGHT!......

lets all make a circle around them so Dragon doesnt come break it up.....
 
Maybe between rounds I could get a question in.

WallyCleaver; when you copy the vocal track, do you then pan both of them the same, or does that matter ?

Ding ! O.K., round two.
 
Wally Cleaver is kinda busy...Ill take a shot....I would pan those at 11 and 1 or 10 and 2 and see if that works.....You could try it hard left and hard right, see if it works, but definitely check it in mono also.......but ultimately, you have a sound that you are shooting for in your head...just tweak until you get it there...btw, what mic, pre, and compressor are you using?.....also, if you could post a MP3 clip, there may be some EQ issues involved......

I think Bruce just bit WC's ear off.......
 
An odd question...

How about this... this is probably nuts, but I've thought about it before, and I may try it, just for the sake of experimentation. Get 2 good vocal mics, side by side, slightly angled in towards each other, record simulataneously, and either pan left and right or manipulate with the Waves S1. A trebly mic like the Rode, more presence coming on one side, and a smooth warm mic coming through the other. Quit laughing! It COULD work. Maybe. experimenting is what makes it fun sometimes. It might be a GREAT effect for a certain sound now and then. WHo knows....
What I HAVE tried is... copy and paste the track, nudge or delay the pasted track out a bit til it sounds where I want it, and then cut a db or 2 here and there at certain freqs on left track, then ADD same db at same freq on right track. Then add a few db at certain freq on left, take away same on right. Play around a little. Makes em sound a tad different. Like a perfect overdub, but, well, different. Sort of. Someone give it a try, and let me know what you think about the effect. I kinda like it.
Paul
 
oh yeah...

It seems to sound best if one side has the more breathy, airy top end sound going on, and the other side sounds warmer, flatter. Kinda gives them a distinction, and it sounds good over a fat acoustic guitar. I heard something like this on a Creed album, thats where I got the idea to mess with the EQ and stuff, because I could tell that there was NO WAY he was being that damn accurate. Damn near impossible.
 
Two things here.
#1 Bruce and and disagree alot! That's what makes it intersting. Everyone on any level has opinions. I have done things in a different evnviorment than Bruce. Doesn't mean either of us are wrong, just different ideas. I'd actually like to work with him at some point just because we have such different ideas, with compromise and such we'd have a killer product!

#2 Questions aimed at me and other comments
Wide awake: I panlead vox slightly but with backups and harmonies and such I pan them hard left and right.

Tubedude: Great Idea! I Like having 2 mics one upside down above anothe mic so the capsules are next to each other. I hope that's discriptive enough.

As for my ear, it's healing after the bear bit it off. But I'm sueing him for everything but his mackie board! LOL
 
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