For the life of me i can not figure out how to add the effects for the vm 200 to the mix in cakewalk. help please.
vm 200
wavecenter pci
cakewalk pa 9
vm 200
wavecenter pci
cakewalk pa 9
vm 200 help i cant figure it out!
- Thread starter bhlewis
- Start date
I haven't event tried the effects yet myself. I'll be interested to see responses here. So far I've only used the mixer for input and controlling Sonar and PA9 console sliders. When I do use effects, I've been using the software plug-ins. I suspect we'll have to become more familiar with the use of mixers and Aux Sends and returns in both Cakewalk and in the Mixer.
Tom Kemp
Sonar
Dakota
VM200
ADAT I/O between computer and VM200
Tom Kemp
Sonar
Dakota
VM200
ADAT I/O between computer and VM200
i can send the tracks back through the vm 200 and add effects that way and mix down to some external device such as dat or a cd burner but i cant mix back into cakewalk and save the wave file and burn to cd through my pc burner.
Well, like I mentioned, I'd never tried it before. What would have to happen, as I see it, with regards to remaining in the digital world, is that you would have to playback your recorded tracks on the computer...the ones that you want effects added to.... through the ADAT Outs of your soundcard, into the ADAT Ins of the VM200, route them through the appropriate effects, then back out of the ADAT Outs of the VM200 and to the ADAT Ins of the Sound card.
In theory, it doesn't sound that difficult, but I've never tried it, as of yet. Maybe...I'll get a chance this weekend to finally play with this...
Tom Kemp
In theory, it doesn't sound that difficult, but I've never tried it, as of yet. Maybe...I'll get a chance this weekend to finally play with this...
Tom Kemp
If you want to send the FX in the VM-200 to Cakewalk, you need to route the FX returns (inputs 17-20) to the ADAT direct outs. You do this by accessing the Routing/Phase page from the "Key Mode section.
tonestar, would i then have to rerecord the track your sending back into cakewalk again? what i what to do is example:send track 1 drums to the vm 200 and do some eqing and fx then send it back to cakewalk and enter into mix and save as a wave file and burn to cd.
The effects channels do not route directly to the ADAT outs.
You need to route them through the REC bus which then routes to channels 1-8 in L/R pairs and then to the ADAT outs.
So: channels 9-16 in (signals from computer)
apply effects routed to the REC bus
out from 1-8 L/R depending on your sound card
See Manual pages: 66-67, 112
Now: I would suggest you do not route the main signals to the REC bus. And YES, you do want to record the effects to a stereo track in SONAR/Cakewalk. Why? Because there will be some latency even if no A/D D/A is performed. This might not be significant depending upon the effect.
But if your record the effect to a track you can slide it to establish better sync. And fewer things to think about at mixing.
The attached file is an XL97 file I use to help me plot/remember routings and such.
J
You need to route them through the REC bus which then routes to channels 1-8 in L/R pairs and then to the ADAT outs.
So: channels 9-16 in (signals from computer)
apply effects routed to the REC bus
out from 1-8 L/R depending on your sound card
See Manual pages: 66-67, 112
Now: I would suggest you do not route the main signals to the REC bus. And YES, you do want to record the effects to a stereo track in SONAR/Cakewalk. Why? Because there will be some latency even if no A/D D/A is performed. This might not be significant depending upon the effect.
But if your record the effect to a track you can slide it to establish better sync. And fewer things to think about at mixing.
The attached file is an XL97 file I use to help me plot/remember routings and such.
J
I stand corrected. yes, you need to route the returns to the rec buss outs. that's the bottom line.
So JJM. does this mean that he can't do this with his present set-up? If i read this correctly, he would need a pair of analog inputs to his DAW for the rec buss outs.
I am thinking of purchasing the Dakota card. although i probably will only utilize software FX, I'm curious as to your response.
tony
So JJM. does this mean that he can't do this with his present set-up? If i read this correctly, he would need a pair of analog inputs to his DAW for the rec buss outs.
I am thinking of purchasing the Dakota card. although i probably will only utilize software FX, I'm curious as to your response.
tony
> I stand corrected. yes, you need to route the returns to the rec > buss outs. that's the bottom line.
You were standing OK. Maybe in need of a little adjustment to your casual alignment.
>So JJM. does this mean that he can't do this with his present set-up? If i read this correctly, he would need a pair of analog inputs to his DAW for the rec buss outs.
The REC outs are automatically routed to channels 1-8 in L/R pairs and then can be routed to the ADAT out to the DAW.
This is what I am doing, in general.
This provides the ability to process up to 6 analog channels in, channels 9-16 of ADAT input, and 2 effects, to the REC bus and then out two channels back to the DAW as stereo. And also to monitor this through the REC bus jacks.
>I am thinking of purchasing the Dakota card. although i probably will only utilize software FX, I'm curious as to your response.
The info I have read makes this a happy card. I would not have had to purchase the midi interface and the USB PCI card.
In the Spring I purchased a Yamaha dsp factory with the ax16 adat i/o card, discontinued, but a great combination.
I thought about the Tango-Wavecenter combo, but I do not record many instruments at once. And I wanted a mixer/control interface.
I purchased the VM200
to have the familiarity of an analog mixer
to be able to control Sonar and the dspf via midi
to be able to keep everything digital, once I got it in
The VM200 has 20bit conversion. So does the Yamaha DSPF. I think the Yamaha may have better converters, but it is only 2 channels in. (The effects and mixing are what I wanted from the Yamaha.)
I was concerned about not having 24 bit conversion until I read an article at Alesis.com
Go to http://alesis.com/support/faqs/index.html Click on ADAT and then on "Welcome to 20-bit digital recording."
'Tother day my 5 year old granddaughter and I played with the echo and reverb effects using headphones. She visits a couple days a week. I take her to dance and music classes. When she was 3 and 1/2 she was still saying "W's" for "L's." And her mother was listening to some 60's and 70's greatest hits.
One of her favorite songs still is "Countwy Woads."
Countwy Woads take me home
to the pwace I bewong
West Virginia, Mountain mama
Take me home Countwy Woads
And, "I'm weaving on a jet pwane,...."
'Twas a bit easier to use just the mixer and not have to mess with the computer to have fun with echos and my Emily.
Have fun
J
You were standing OK. Maybe in need of a little adjustment to your casual alignment.
>So JJM. does this mean that he can't do this with his present set-up? If i read this correctly, he would need a pair of analog inputs to his DAW for the rec buss outs.
The REC outs are automatically routed to channels 1-8 in L/R pairs and then can be routed to the ADAT out to the DAW.
This is what I am doing, in general.
This provides the ability to process up to 6 analog channels in, channels 9-16 of ADAT input, and 2 effects, to the REC bus and then out two channels back to the DAW as stereo. And also to monitor this through the REC bus jacks.
>I am thinking of purchasing the Dakota card. although i probably will only utilize software FX, I'm curious as to your response.
The info I have read makes this a happy card. I would not have had to purchase the midi interface and the USB PCI card.
In the Spring I purchased a Yamaha dsp factory with the ax16 adat i/o card, discontinued, but a great combination.
I thought about the Tango-Wavecenter combo, but I do not record many instruments at once. And I wanted a mixer/control interface.
I purchased the VM200
to have the familiarity of an analog mixer
to be able to control Sonar and the dspf via midi
to be able to keep everything digital, once I got it in
The VM200 has 20bit conversion. So does the Yamaha DSPF. I think the Yamaha may have better converters, but it is only 2 channels in. (The effects and mixing are what I wanted from the Yamaha.)
I was concerned about not having 24 bit conversion until I read an article at Alesis.com
Go to http://alesis.com/support/faqs/index.html Click on ADAT and then on "Welcome to 20-bit digital recording."
'Tother day my 5 year old granddaughter and I played with the echo and reverb effects using headphones. She visits a couple days a week. I take her to dance and music classes. When she was 3 and 1/2 she was still saying "W's" for "L's." And her mother was listening to some 60's and 70's greatest hits.
One of her favorite songs still is "Countwy Woads."
Countwy Woads take me home
to the pwace I bewong
West Virginia, Mountain mama
Take me home Countwy Woads
And, "I'm weaving on a jet pwane,...."
'Twas a bit easier to use just the mixer and not have to mess with the computer to have fun with echos and my Emily.
Have fun
J
As Tonester well knows...'cause we've talked about it, I love my Dakota! It's the best investment I've made this year, and I've made a few: Dakota, VM200, Roland DS-90a Studio Monitors, Sonar upgrade, Roland VS-840 and other smaller items. I am now thinking about another VM200 or other digital mixer within the next 4-6 months for the midi equipment. The Dakota is the center of all of this equipment....
I'm still trying to settle on an ideal way to cable everything!
Tom Kemp
I'm still trying to settle on an ideal way to cable everything!
Tom Kemp
questions, questions
I too downsized a bit, because I was using a Delta 1010, but really didn't record many instruments at once, so i got the Audiophile 24/96. Great card, about 8ms latency in SONAR with the WDM drivers, even though I am using Win ME. The midi port causes SONAR to crash, so i have to disable it. If I use the ME drivers, the midi ports work, but my latency goes way up. I use input monitoring a lot, so i have chosen to sacrifice the midi port.
I like the Dakota over the Wave Center for the simple fact that I can hook the VM-200 one set if in/outs, and my ADAT to the second. But that's just my setup.Plus the ADAT sync, and 2 midi ports.......I may have to dump the Audiophile.
I also have the StudioMix. If I could get the VM-200 to control the transport in SONAR, i could probably dump that also.
Tom, I'm curious as to what kind of latency you are achieving with the Dakota, what OS you are using, and which drivers. Apparently, they have beta WDM drivers on the Frontier website.
Decisions, decisions.........
Peace,
Tony
I too downsized a bit, because I was using a Delta 1010, but really didn't record many instruments at once, so i got the Audiophile 24/96. Great card, about 8ms latency in SONAR with the WDM drivers, even though I am using Win ME. The midi port causes SONAR to crash, so i have to disable it. If I use the ME drivers, the midi ports work, but my latency goes way up. I use input monitoring a lot, so i have chosen to sacrifice the midi port.
I like the Dakota over the Wave Center for the simple fact that I can hook the VM-200 one set if in/outs, and my ADAT to the second. But that's just my setup.Plus the ADAT sync, and 2 midi ports.......I may have to dump the Audiophile.
I also have the StudioMix. If I could get the VM-200 to control the transport in SONAR, i could probably dump that also.
Tom, I'm curious as to what kind of latency you are achieving with the Dakota, what OS you are using, and which drivers. Apparently, they have beta WDM drivers on the Frontier website.
Decisions, decisions.........
Peace,
Tony
Heading home.....
Hey, Tonester! I'm heading home from my Cancun Vacation. I'm part of the way there now, as I'm in Miami at my sister's for the night. Can't wait to get home and play with my toys!
anyway, I was down to about 2.6ms on my Dakota with Windows 98 2nd Ed. Not too shabby! I noticed that it is very sensitive about how long I mix with it, as it relates to how much the drive is fragmented. As long as it's defragged, it's rock solid. I recorded for several hours just before I left for vacation. I recorded our practice for about 2.5 to 3 hours using 7 tracks live. I filled around 19GB of space, and no crash!
The drivers are the BETA WDM drivers. The MME drivers only functioned solid ar around 21ms. I also had to disable the availability of my Creative Labs SB Live Card when using MME, and never installed any WDM drivers for that card...but I really only use it for it's Midi port...as I'm using all 3 midi ports now.
talk to you later!
Tom Kemp
Hey, Tonester! I'm heading home from my Cancun Vacation. I'm part of the way there now, as I'm in Miami at my sister's for the night. Can't wait to get home and play with my toys!
anyway, I was down to about 2.6ms on my Dakota with Windows 98 2nd Ed. Not too shabby! I noticed that it is very sensitive about how long I mix with it, as it relates to how much the drive is fragmented. As long as it's defragged, it's rock solid. I recorded for several hours just before I left for vacation. I recorded our practice for about 2.5 to 3 hours using 7 tracks live. I filled around 19GB of space, and no crash!
The drivers are the BETA WDM drivers. The MME drivers only functioned solid ar around 21ms. I also had to disable the availability of my Creative Labs SB Live Card when using MME, and never installed any WDM drivers for that card...but I really only use it for it's Midi port...as I'm using all 3 midi ports now.
talk to you later!
Tom Kemp
glad to hear you guys like the dakota. I am using the wavecenter pci with a vm200 and n-track studio (awesome and cheap). I have PA9 and I was wondering how you setup the vm200 to control the faders. (through midi no doubt. I am thinking about buying the dakota for a new Daw I am building
Quite simply, setup the VM200 to send and receive on the channels of your choice. I set mine to send and receive on channel 16 only. Then, in PA9, you would open the console view, right-click on the slider or know, choose 'Remote Control'. Select 'Controller' for the type. Enter the controller number. As you'll note in the back of the manual, there is a chart of how the VM200 maps the Midi controller numbers. The first slider is Program Change 1, The second is 2, etc. Test each slider and know as you program it and except it. You should see the sliders on the Cakewalk PA9 console move up and down with you.
The simplest thing to do is to take a blank file, create this configuration and save it as a template or as your startup file. Then, everytime you setup to record, you start with this file, and save it as a different name. The absolute best situation is to have a studioware panel for the VM200. A couple people have worked on this. Here, Tonester and somebody else here. I have seen either work completely yet.
BTW, yes, we love our Dakota cards. However, the WaveCenter/PCI is nice as well. Same basic card. The only difference I see is the 2nd ADAT I/O and the Midi ports. If you only one midi ports for your mixer, and you have some other card plugged in for regular sound playback, then stick with that WaveCenter/PCI and get a midi breakout box for your sound cards joystick port. It'll save you alot of money. I have a Sound Blaster Live card in mine. I don't use the audio portion of the card, but I do use the Midi port for my Roland VS840 Sync with Sonar. I use all of my Midi ports, but I have alot of old toys around here....
Tom Kemp
The simplest thing to do is to take a blank file, create this configuration and save it as a template or as your startup file. Then, everytime you setup to record, you start with this file, and save it as a different name. The absolute best situation is to have a studioware panel for the VM200. A couple people have worked on this. Here, Tonester and somebody else here. I have seen either work completely yet.
BTW, yes, we love our Dakota cards. However, the WaveCenter/PCI is nice as well. Same basic card. The only difference I see is the 2nd ADAT I/O and the Midi ports. If you only one midi ports for your mixer, and you have some other card plugged in for regular sound playback, then stick with that WaveCenter/PCI and get a midi breakout box for your sound cards joystick port. It'll save you alot of money. I have a Sound Blaster Live card in mine. I don't use the audio portion of the card, but I do use the Midi port for my Roland VS840 Sync with Sonar. I use all of my Midi ports, but I have alot of old toys around here....
Tom Kemp
thanx tntkemp! Believe it or not the waveventer has builut in support for midi. It has a breakout cable and it can handle 32 tracks. I also use soundblaster for midi. What are your impressions of Sonar? I am looking for an opinion from more of a live band guy like your self other than a techo/midi perspective. I use midi but I am not a techno musician. I play guitar and I record live music tracks. I need the dakota to sync to two adats. Thedual i/o's and adat sync, and price make this card a must. Actually on the wavecenter I am using the beta 5 wdm drivers with n-track and I am loving it.
Dakota and Live Music with Sonar
I am very happy with this setup. I record almost every single practice....no matter what. Every once in a very long time Windows 98 messes up, as it does under any amount of stress. However, we record 2-3 hours straight every Friday. I managed 2 weeks ago to fill my 40GB audio drive. We were pumping 7 channels in live off of the VM200 mixer.
I will say that Sonar is picky about configuration. Some motherboards don't get along well with it. I have an Asus P3V4x Slot 1 motherboard with an Intel PIII-700 100mhz FSB CPU. I'm running Dual Monitor with my Matrox Millenium G400 Twinhead video card with a 20" and an old 14" monitor. I am running on about 256mb ram. My C: drive, or application/OS drive, is a 20GB ATA/66 drive, and my D:, or audio, drive is a 40GB IBM ATA/100 drive. That drive is running off of an SIIG ATA/100 controller, but runs about the same off of the built-in UDMA/66 controller.
I was using a Lexicon Core2 Pro Audio card before. It worked pretty good with Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.03, but when I started going Digital, then I bought the Sonar upgrade, It refused to cooperate. Especially when I went digital. Somebody recommended the Wavepipe or the Dakota. I only use one Adat channel now plus the S/PDIF and all of the Midi (well, it's all hooked up...as I am learning to play with it all). I thought it was a smart buy, simply because everything shares the same clock source, plus the Dakota gives me room to grow into 8 more channels later.
From the moment I installed this card, Sonar was rock solid, but I was using MME drivers. I ventured into WDM v5 drivers when they came out. Wow! from 22.3 ms down to 2.6 ms or so!
After working with Sonar since that day, as much as I loved PA9, I can't go back. Sonar is so much easier to work with, and this dual monitor business only makes it that much better. Now all I need is to replace the monitors with 2 17" or 18" LCD displays!
By the way, I don't know if you read something earlier, but it's true....no techno stuff for me. The closest I get to that is playing some old Rush. We keep varying musicians, especially guitarists, but we are either playing Heavy Metal, Hard Rock or Classic Rock. Check out http://hungjury.tntkemp.com sometime. But let me start by saying all of that stuff was recorded in PA9, before I had the VM200 mixer and the Roland DS-90a studio speakers. I want to remix them and put them out there in better quality... Ok, I've made my excuses... C'ya!
8')
Tom Kemp
I am very happy with this setup. I record almost every single practice....no matter what. Every once in a very long time Windows 98 messes up, as it does under any amount of stress. However, we record 2-3 hours straight every Friday. I managed 2 weeks ago to fill my 40GB audio drive. We were pumping 7 channels in live off of the VM200 mixer.
I will say that Sonar is picky about configuration. Some motherboards don't get along well with it. I have an Asus P3V4x Slot 1 motherboard with an Intel PIII-700 100mhz FSB CPU. I'm running Dual Monitor with my Matrox Millenium G400 Twinhead video card with a 20" and an old 14" monitor. I am running on about 256mb ram. My C: drive, or application/OS drive, is a 20GB ATA/66 drive, and my D:, or audio, drive is a 40GB IBM ATA/100 drive. That drive is running off of an SIIG ATA/100 controller, but runs about the same off of the built-in UDMA/66 controller.
I was using a Lexicon Core2 Pro Audio card before. It worked pretty good with Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.03, but when I started going Digital, then I bought the Sonar upgrade, It refused to cooperate. Especially when I went digital. Somebody recommended the Wavepipe or the Dakota. I only use one Adat channel now plus the S/PDIF and all of the Midi (well, it's all hooked up...as I am learning to play with it all). I thought it was a smart buy, simply because everything shares the same clock source, plus the Dakota gives me room to grow into 8 more channels later.
From the moment I installed this card, Sonar was rock solid, but I was using MME drivers. I ventured into WDM v5 drivers when they came out. Wow! from 22.3 ms down to 2.6 ms or so!
After working with Sonar since that day, as much as I loved PA9, I can't go back. Sonar is so much easier to work with, and this dual monitor business only makes it that much better. Now all I need is to replace the monitors with 2 17" or 18" LCD displays!
By the way, I don't know if you read something earlier, but it's true....no techno stuff for me. The closest I get to that is playing some old Rush. We keep varying musicians, especially guitarists, but we are either playing Heavy Metal, Hard Rock or Classic Rock. Check out http://hungjury.tntkemp.com sometime. But let me start by saying all of that stuff was recorded in PA9, before I had the VM200 mixer and the Roland DS-90a studio speakers. I want to remix them and put them out there in better quality... Ok, I've made my excuses... C'ya!
8')
Tom Kemp
tntkemp..I'll check out your toons tonight. You can check out my band here www.ratchetjaw.com. These are recordings done on ADATS and a beringer eurodesk and some modest outboard gear. We play modern metal with an early new york hardcore edge. I got into PA9 last night and it looks easy. Then I opened n-track ( a $39 shareware product that rocks !) and i could automate everything (faders, play record). I might just stick with n-track. It runs rocksolid on my system and has just about every feature of sonar (wdm drivers, automated effects, unlimited tracks, direct x and vst support, dxi synth support , volume and panning envelopes, and it is so easy an effiecient) The main place that sonar beats it is in the midi dept. N-track has a modest sequencer with piano roll. I usually do midi in pa9 and import it to the n-track piano roll. Now I mainly sequence synths,drums, and sounds in fruityloops and export a stereo wave to n-track.