VHS multitrack

In short, it might be more convenient than 1/2" reel tape, but I highly doubt it specs anywhere near as well.
Click to expand...
Not to mention the differences in how the analog format will handle the transient peaks...
 
I think....

I think the downfall of the VHS Hifi format in respect to audio mastering, is the Automatic Gain Control (AGC) that will either pump audibly or kill dynamics, or both. If your style is a balls-to-wall rock band, who's only two volumes are "loud" and "louder", then VHS Hifi might do a decent job.

Let me make an assumption (nah!) that the "glories" of video Hifi were remembered from and referred back to the days when the Hifi audio tracks levels were manually set by input level controls.

Some "outdated" VHS Hifi decks for "pro" use still have the L/R-Hifi tracks set with manual controls and VU meters. I'd only consider serious mastering to a deck like that, so ref: Sony and Panasonic on eBay.

Not only that, but ol'timers like me and Beck might still refer back to our own manual control Hifi decks,... such as my Sanyo Super Beta 7250,... of which mine requires remedial repair and has been out of commision for years.

The "linear" audio is either mono or stereo & it's recorded lofi with a fixed head.

The "hifi" audio is recorded with helical scan technique with the rotating heads.

Current OTC VHS Hifi w/AGC decks used as audio or video/audio decks can do a decent job for fun recordings,... just nothing in sound quality approaching mastering to legitimate mastering decks or PC.

Just my 2¢.:eek:;)
 
Last edited:
Farview and A Reel Person,

I stand corrected. Thank you.

That is wild...mixing the analog with digital on one tape...who would have ever guessed you could spray that all over the tape and it would still play back?! :eek:

Thanks for the education.

I remember those early consumer Sony Beta decks...they were huge, with the two big manual detented dials on the front face... :cool:
 

Attachments

  • SL8200newa.jpg
    SL8200newa.jpg
    17.5 KB · Views: 96
Those 3 S-VHS Hifi decks I cited above would put you in the territory of...

not just audio mastering, but maybe of making legit Hifi audio music videos!

Not only w/ live shoots, but many of these decks would sync to SMPTE, or could drive it. The lofi linear tracks could be used for timecode, etc.:eek:;)
 
We used some TASCAM 16 channel digital recorders that used VHS tapes. I think. The bandwidth was divided by the number of channels. So two channels at 20kHz each, four at 10kHz, etc.
 
apl said:
We used some TASCAM 16 channel digital recorders that used VHS tapes. I think. The bandwidth was divided by the number of channels. So two channels at 20kHz each, four at 10kHz, etc.
Click to expand...
What machine was that?
 
Yes, no digital recording in a HiFi VCR. But it's not strictly "analog" either.
It works like FM radio.

But it also has a dbx-like NR. Otherwise you wouldnt get 80db or so SNR.

The main problem with it was the terrible buzzing noise you get when the tracking goes slightly out.

Some radio stations used long play HiFi VHS for logging their to air programs.

I think a VHS multitrack would have been better than the Akai type because the tape being longer you could get more playing time and/or faster tape speed. The VHS/Beta tape path was better engineered than the audiocassette as it was like a reel to reel. The tape path was totally within the machine, not the cassette shell, with fixed guides and heads and so more professional handling of the tape.

Someone said earlier the linear VHS track ran at cassette speed. Actually it was half cassette speed (15/16ips) and half that again (15/32ips) for LP mode.

BTW I think the Alesis used SVHS, not standard tapes.

Cheers Tim
 
VHS is very quick and cheap. No one mentioned those CD/VHS combo units, I would assume would make it even quicker. Iv noticed that prices for both digital and analog video recorders have dropped considerably and yet the CD/VHS combo prices are still fairly static. I do remember that there was a multi track VHS about a long time before the akai, it came and went very quickly and Iv not seen any reference on the net to it?
 
sweetbeats said:
Hey TransducerX

Farview is right.

You know how the record head looks on an analog recorder right? And the tape just runs over that stationary head, right?

Well, and if you know this alrady please don't take offense...just trying to fill you in if you weren't aware :o, but the head on a VCR spins, like a barrel on its side, and the tape passes over the side of the barrel. The barrel isn't exactly perpendicular to the tape travel path either, it is angled so that the info that gets printed to tape is in diagonal stripes accross the tape rather than parallel to the tape. So it isn't linear analog audio, it is non-linear digital audio. Its the same way with any digital tape recorder whether it be an ADAT, DAT, or DTRS like the Tascam DA38, 78, 88, etc. So a hi fi VCR is a digital two-track audio tape recorder, but that's not what its speciality is. Hence the analog to digital converters (and digital to analog as well) are going to be low-quality and low performance in terms of their specifications. Trying to get the audio portion to be of better quality and or trying to add tracks to would be doing what Alesis did with the ADAT, which, though VERY popular, did have its ups and downs.

Really was an innovative bit of kit and what they did right (as opposed to what happened to the poor AKAI MG1212/1214, which was originally supposed to use a Beta tape shell but there were haggles over licensing or something) was use a readily available format (the VHS tape), but of course the converters, head design and such were proprietary. We can also thank Alesis though for the very popular ADAT optical lightpipe. Really has stood the test of time and made its debut on their ADAT decks.

So, IMHO, trying to do something more with the hi-fi VHS format, though a fun topic, is probably not realistic. Developing a proprietary head design for that format, a road which has already been traveled (and is far less traveled today thanks to the affordability of computer-based recording, which has a far less mechanical transport ;)), would be an exercise in futility. I think a venture like that would be silly expensive too, though again I would say for general purpose two-track recording the hi-fi VHS can fit the bill if it sounds good to the individual.
Click to expand...

Thanks! An excellent education; really cleared up a lot that I half-understood about VHS.

So, what I am interested in is *linear* analog multi-track recording onto VHS tape. If the drawback is tape speed, then it can be sped up. If the draw back is tape *quality* when being utilized in this manner (as mentioned before, the tape is manufactured to capture a specific freq range designed for video) then that is a another matter.

Still, it seems like someone should at least build a proto-type. Maybe try some different brands of VHS tape to see if one actually per chance *sounds* good.

Another question which I think might have been answered but I am posing it again: If linear analog multi-track on VHS is the goal, how many tracks do you think I could get?
 
TransducerX said:
Still, it seems like someone should at least build a proto-type. Maybe try some different brands of VHS tape to see if one actually per chance *sounds* good.
Click to expand...
The tape quality is the issue. The tape is formulated for video, not audio. The transport is not designed for the type of abuse that recording involves. That is why you always needed to buy an extra ADAT machine, one of them would always be in the shop.

The other thing is tape speed, there isn't enough tape in the cassette to do anything at 15 ips, much less 30ips. A VCR normally runs slower than 1 ips, so at 30 ips, you would get 4 minutes of tape.

VHS machines have been around for 25 years, multitracking has been around for 50. I'm sure this has been explored by no less than 3 companies, there is a reason why it never came to market.

TransducerX said:
Another question which I think might have been answered but I am posing it again: If linear analog multi-track on VHS is the goal, how many tracks do you think I could get?
Click to expand...
It's half inch tape, so 8 or 16 tracks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top