Valacirca - Bodiless Powers of Heaven

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valacirca

New member
Hi guys! Here's the deal: Several weeks ago, I got this idea for an album and I'm hoping that I'll be able to see it through over the course of this year. It's going to have at least seven tracks and I'm calling it "Bodiless Powers of Heaven". It's supposedly a post-rock album, but can veer off towards other similar genres. I've settled on the definitive mix of the first track and I'm sharing it here for you guys to hear and share your thoughts about it. I'll share the other tracks one by one when they're completed. Thanks!

01 - Archistratege - free to stream in full @ last.fm
02 -
03 -
04 - Over Thunder and Terror
05 -
06 -
07 -
 
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Hi welcome to the clinic...firstly nice tune and Im glad you have some plan..

Im no expert here but even to my inexperienced ears this needs more work


The kick sounds a bit like thumping a carboard box...it needs more boom, maybe an EQ peak somewhere around 70Hz??

the main guitar sounds little off to me...like the innotation hasnt been set up right...maybe someone else can say If im right or not...Im also getting pops and crackles during this track ...maybe you got your buffers set to low?? what DI/interface/soundcard/PC are you using?

there are other things id change as well...like there need more reverb or delay on the lead, and it needs double tracked as its a little thin....but firstly find out whats causing the pops and crackles...


worth the work as its a nice little instrumental
 
^ Thanks kcearl! The kind words are appreciated. :)

My biggest problem with the drums is that it's programmed via a MIDI sequenced pattern in Hydrogen... and Hydrogen is no EZdrummer, so I'm guessing that kicks the quality down a notch as well. The kick is indeed a bit lacking; but when I try to boost it, it ends up sounding too boomy for me --- although I'll try EQ'ing it and will see what happens. I just hope the other drum parts don't get affected by the EQ since I'll be doing it on the whole drum track on Reaper (because Hydrogen doesn't have EQ as far as I remember).

TBH, my guitar does need intonation done on it, but I didn't think it showed on the track. After listening to it again recently, the main guitar seems a bit loud on the track and I think I'll have to mix it down a bit. Anyone else agree?

Yeah I hear some pops and crackles. Maybe it's because I'm using the built-in laptop soundcard and not yet the USB audio interface that I'm still waiting for. Aside from that, the DI I'm using is a Behringer DI100.

I'll think about double-tracking the lead (especially when the interface arrives) because I think it works well the way it is. Although my gripe with it (and the main guitar) is that it seems a tad bit too steely/metallic/shrill than what I want. What frequency range could I cut on the EQ to remedy this?
 
valacirca said:
^ Thanks kcearl! The kind words are appreciated. :)

My biggest problem with the drums is that it's programmed via a MIDI sequenced pattern in Hydrogen... and Hydrogen is no EZdrummer, so I'm guessing that kicks the quality down a notch as well. The kick is indeed a bit lacking; but when I try to boost it, it ends up sounding too boomy for me --- although I'll try EQ'ing it and will see what happens. I just hope the other drum parts don't get affected by the EQ since I'll be doing it on the whole drum track on Reaper (because Hydrogen doesn't have EQ as far as I remember).

TBH, my guitar does need intonation done on it, but I didn't think it showed on the track. After listening to it again recently, the main guitar seems a bit loud on the track and I think I'll have to mix it down a bit. Anyone else agree?

Yeah I hear some pops and crackles. Maybe it's because I'm using the built-in laptop soundcard and not yet the USB audio interface that I'm still waiting for. Aside from that, the DI I'm using is a Behringer DI100.

I'll think about double-tracking the lead (especially when the interface arrives) because I think it works well the way it is. Although my gripe with it (and the main guitar) is that it seems a tad bit too steely/metallic/shrill than what I want. What frequency range could I cut on the EQ to remedy this?
Click to expand...


yeah it'll be your soundcard for definitite...it looks like you'll have to retrack it when the time comes..

I think the important thing is that you have the basis of the track here so that's the hard part

is it midi files you are using for the drums or programming them your self?

if its not loops then try this VSTi...both the kits in it are excellent...very nice samples indeed

http://www.drumcore.com/TemplateMain.aspx?contentId=65

I noticed the innotation just because Ive managed to set up two of my own guitars but i have a third that I just cant get right...every time I use it I hear it...funny how doing this as a hobby tunes your ears into hearing smaller and smaller details

as for your guitar I didnt have a problem with the tone...I did think it needed duplicating, if it were me then Id try to retrack t then put both parts together (or even three parts) rather than just cutting and pasting..then just pan them out

maybe someone can help you with EQing...as I said, I didnt think they needed it


Hint: if you comment on others mixes not only do you hear how others do things right, or wrong, but it encourages others to comment on yours....gives your ears a bit of practise too :)
 
I could hear the click track with the bass at the beginning. Didnt really like that. The distorted rhythm guitars sounded like someone was banging on pots and pans into a big funnel that is connected to my headphones. I didnt really like that either. If you are recording DI into your computer than you need to get a good amp emulator to do the work for you. Those things sound great, if you have one then I think you need to work on making it sound a little better than that. Try turning your monitors up a little bit so that you track your songs at a lower db. This might give you some room to get a good sound out of the guitars. If you dont have an amp emulator and just a pedel, try turning the drive down a bit. Hope this helps, liked the song. Could hear some nice rockin Lane Staley vocals over this.
 
onestu3 said:
I could hear the click track with the bass at the beginning. Didnt really like that.
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Probably also due to me using the built-in soundcard instead of a USB Interface. I should end up handling this eventually.

onestu3 said:
The distorted rhythm guitars sounded like someone was banging on pots and pans into a big funnel that is connected to my headphones. I didnt really like that either.
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Doesn't sound like a terrible description, really. On another thread I described what I was trying to achieve as "the aural equivalent of sticking your fingers into your eyes and into your brain then you twirl it around your head while getting sucked into a massive whirlpool in the middle of an epic storm..." :p

But for reference, try to se if you can find Jesu's "Silver" or anything off of My Bloody Valentine's "Loveless" and you've got a good idea of what I'm going for :)

onestu3 said:
If you are recording DI into your computer than you need to get a good amp emulator to do the work for you.
Click to expand...
Amp emulator? Is this hardware or software? Any suggestions? Hopefully free :)

onestu3 said:
Hope this helps, liked the song. Could hear some nice rockin Lane Staley vocals over this.
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Thanks! Appreciate the comments. Though this pretty much stays as an instrumental though. the whole planned album is, actually.

kcearl said:
is it midi files you are using for the drums or programming them your self?
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I'm doing MIDI sequencing in Hydrogen, then I export the project as a WAV file then import it into Reaper.

kcearl said:
http://www.drumcore.com/TemplateMain.aspx?contentId=65
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Thanks! I'll definitely try this out when I get home. Any free alternative to Hydrogen is more than welcome.

kcearl said:
Hint: if you comment on others mixes not only do you hear how others do things right, or wrong, but it encourages others to comment on yours....gives your ears a bit of practise too :)
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Haha yeah, thanks. I'll be sure to spend some time trying to contribute to a few other threads here from time to time. Sometimes it just feels that anything coming from a beginner like me would pale in comparison to the comments from the more experienced members of the forum.
 
As mentioned, the guitars need either to be mic'd cabinets or GOOD amp sims.
Your sound card isn't going to assist either.
I like the direction the song's going in & aspiring to Loveless is a great way to start.
Get your hands on some software (guitar rif comes free with a few guitar interfaces & it's not bad at all) and an interface that will help you with your guitar so that you can work towards your potential.
Use the recording you have as your template & slowly re record the tracks as you get to know the gear & sim settings.
Get the best quality recording of loveless you can find Vinyl if poss but a decent CD if not - DON'T use an MP3 too much is lost - & listen closely to the layering of sounds while doing a little research on line about the gear & recording process used - most of that info is out there.
http://www.gear-vault.com/journey-classic-rock-revisited/
http://www.guitargeek.com/
Oh, why tease - go here...
http://www.guitargeek.com/rigview/77/
 
EDIT: BTW, the whole project was created @120BPM but I was experimenting with tempos yesterday, tried setting it at 115BPM and forgot putting it back so what you hear now is the 115BPM version. What negative effects could that have created?

Does anyone have anything to say about the bass? I was thinking that since it's the first thing to be heard and it sounds a bit bloated (imho), more discerning ears would criticize it immediately. :)

rayc said:
As mentioned, the guitars need either to be mic'd cabinets or GOOD amp sims.
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I'll check out kcearl's recommendation for free guitar amp stuff and try those out :)

rayc said:
http://www.guitargeek.com/rigview/77/
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WOW. *at a loss for words*

I'm not trying to emulate Kevin Sheilds' or MBV's tone exactly; but rather, create my own version of the same style of music. You know, a whirling guitars + wall-of-sound type of thing that's noisy yet melodic at the same time.

Thanks for the info though! Really interesting and a great guide to consider.
 
Got sidetracked with this project for a while since some gear broke down, I waited for replacements and then some... Although in that span of time, I was able to create a bandcamp account and cook up potential cover art:

3528178906-1.jpg


In any case, I eventually got back to playing with my toys and came up a simplish, mellower, bit more experimental track for you guys to comment on:


That link sends you to the bandcamp page where you can either stream the track or download it in various lossy/lossless formats.

(all free to stream in full or download in lossy/lossless formats)

01 - Archistratege
02 - Six​-​Hundred Wings (Covered the Horizon)
03 -
04 - Over Thunder and Terror
05 -
06 -
07 -

Just for fun, folks. Cheers!
 
Sorry. I'm totally not diggin' the compositions. Filler sound...minimal ideas stretched to painful extremes. No motion, story, change, impact. I can't imagine a desire to own it, or hear it, for anyone.

I'd suggest you pare-down your plans for an epic, serial work of a lifetime, and concentrate on much smaller things...like single sections in a single tune...applying interesting melodic, rythmic, chordal and textural invention, and recording it nicely after it's composed.

Cart before horse.
 
^ How familiar are you with post-rock/drone/ambient, if you don't mind me asking? Particularly bands such as Godspeed You! Black Emperor, Earth and Stars of the Lid?

Thanks for the comments!
 
jeffmaher said:
Sorry. I'm totally not diggin' the compositions. Filler sound...minimal ideas stretched to painful extremes. No motion, story, change, impact. I can't imagine a desire to own it, or hear it, for anyone.

I'd suggest you pare-down your plans for an epic, serial work of a lifetime, and concentrate on much smaller things...like single sections in a single tune...applying interesting melodic, rythmic, chordal and textural invention, and recording it nicely after it's composed.

Cart before horse.
Click to expand...

I agree with this.
 
^ While I appreciate the time and effort given to at least post on this thread, my gripe with such comments (while they are innately constructive) is that I recognize that my style of music is in the vast minority. That's why I initially asked jeffmaher if he was familiar with the bands I've mentioned; because it's quite clear to me what kind of music I'm going for.

Drone... Ambient... Post-Rock... Minimalism... a combination of them --- most people won't want to sit through these kinds of songs. There's only a niche group for them I think. Tracks that average out at around 10 minutes each which are composed of melodies stretched out by subtle variations aren't appealing to a lot of people, I'd imagine.

So basically, I take comments on the composition with a grain of salt, but it's nice to see the thread getting whatever comments it can get in order to facilitate some discussion. And hey, I understand though that whether or not music is taken in the right or wrong context, people will probably still not like what they don't like :D
 
I listened to Stars of the Lid. Three cuts on Myspace.

You're gonna have to drop the stronger themes in your compositions...they always sound like they want to go somewhere, and disappoint.

Lid's stuff doesn't want to go anywhere, and , thus , cannot disappoint. And it's recorded better...but you can work on that, too.

If you want to get to where they are, you're gonna have to simplify. There is a market....film.

Lid-style is not my preference. But it's not unpleasant. I see it as not being a piece of art hanging on a wall; but, rather, the paint on the wall. Nice and white....and utterly forgettable.

Just keep doing what you love to do. There's a chance you might stumble onto something new and great.
 
valacirca said:
^ While I appreciate the time and effort given to at least post on this thread, my gripe with such comments (while they are innately constructive) is that I recognize that my style of music is in the vast minority. That's why I initially asked jeffmaher if he was familiar with the bands I've mentioned; because it's quite clear to me what kind of music I'm going for.

Drone... Ambient... Post-Rock... Minimalism... a combination of them --- most people won't want to sit through these kinds of songs. There's only a niche group for them I think. Tracks that average out at around 10 minutes each which are composed of melodies stretched out by subtle variations aren't appealing to a lot of people, I'd imagine.

So basically, I take comments on the composition with a grain of salt, but it's nice to see the thread getting whatever comments it can get in order to facilitate some discussion. And hey, I understand though that whether or not music is taken in the right or wrong context, people will probably still not like what they don't like :D
Click to expand...

This is why you shouldn't give a shit if people like your stuff or not. Just do what you do. If someone likes it, great. If not, that's great too. Who cares?
 
^ But isn't it important to use this part of the forum to gather advice on what can make your recordings better in the technical/mixing aspect more than on the compositional aspect?
 
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