Using MSH-1A for binaural recording?

S

solo.guitar

New member
After reading a lot on Binaural recording, and on the MSH-1A microphones, I figured they would work perfectly. They're omni-directional, they're small enough to fit inside a dummy head, they're inexpensive, and from what I've heard they're very accurate and detailed.

I've been wanting to make binaural recordings for awhile now, for fun mostly.

I'm planning on making a small dummy head, or buying one somewhere. Maybe one that is meant to hold wigs or something. Drill two holes in the side of the head down to the bottom and run the microphones/cables through there into my DAW.

Or maybe there is a better way of doing it? Anyone have any experience, or any tips/suggestions on how to go about doing this? :confused:
 
the jecklin disc is pretty cool, but the binaural head - with the "ears" coloring the sound slightly - is pretty amazing. Especially with headphones on.
 
I will also recommend a Jecklin disc. I made an ambient, rain/ thunder, recording with the MSH-1A's and a homemade J-disc that sounded nice.
 
The jecklin disk looks like a good, easy way to do it, but I heard that the ears are what actually makes a binaural recording sound so realistic.

Maybe a jecklin disk with some prosthetic ears attached to the sides to slide the microphones into? :confused:

I'm trying to not spend too much money on this because I'm still trying to save up for some better gear for real recording.

Does anyone have any samples of things they recorded with a jecklin disk, and did the recordings you made with one sound as good as the ones made with dummy heads?
 
I'm getting ready to try this project too. I was planning on using a mannequin head from ebay and a drill. it looks like a cheap but effective solution.

You're right that the "ears" make a difference. Our ears filter sound depending on the location of the source just like our ears do. This minor eq and phase filtering helps us locate the source by listening alone. Binaural heads, with ears, hear like we do - with all the same "filtering".

With headphones, it's the most 3 dimensional recording technique I've heard. Plus you get a place to hang your hat. I'll be giving it a try soon - you'll probably beat me to it.
 
qbert1 - That's a good idea to get a mannequin head.

I still don't know what to do about the ears. :confused:

After reading something on this site he says he purchased prosthetic ears for binaural recording:

I purchase a couple prosthetic ears from an audiologist supply house (Westone Laboratories, Inc. 1-800-552-7203) for around $30 or so. These are intended to act as "dummy" ears for learning to make ear impressions (part #157-A). These seem to work great for "remote" ears for recording purposes!
Click to expand...

So I'm going to give that a try. But since I'll be using the MSH mics, the ears will need a big enough hole to fit the mics into. I think about 3/4"? Or something close to that.
 
solo.guitar said:
Does anyone have any samples of things they recorded with a jecklin disk, and did the recordings you made with one sound as good as the ones made with dummy heads?
Click to expand...


Sample: http://www.zshare.net/audio/jdisc-mp3.html
(source : Schoeps CMC62S>>>DAV BG-1>>>Mytek Stereo 192>>>Lynx/Sequoia(24/96)>>dithered/resampled using POW-R # 3 in Sequoia, conversion to MP3 with foobar.) the disc was 10 feet up and 12 feet back from the orchestra. The jecklin disc was my main pair, but additional mics were mixed in as well. What you hear is ONLY the Jecklin sample.

Jecklin Disc and Binaural recording are two different things...Binaural is designed to give realistic playback over HEADPHONES(not loudspeakers) and imaging/localization on loudspeakers is not as good with Binaural sourced stuff. Jecklin Is more universal...sounds great on phones and loudspeakers. Imaging is great, depth of soundstage...

teddy
 
Halloween is coming up. I had planned to go to my neighborhood costume shop and see what they have.

As to the holes. I was planning to have the mics come in from behind the ear - from the inside out.

What I was thinking was to drill small 3/8" hole from the outside of the ear angled all the way through to behind the other ear and then go in the opposite direction and drill out that canal larger (95% of the way) for the mics to slot into. I was also hoping to achieve the 110deg angle that ORTF uses - though I know they're omni so it probably won't matter.

Most of the mannequin heads on ebay seem to be hollow. To remedy that I was planning to use that expanding spray foam used for insulation. Spray, cure, trim, drill.

Lots of plans but no action yet. Waiting for payday.
 
BigRay said:
Sample: http://www.zshare.net/audio/jdisc-mp3.html
(source : Schoeps CMC62S>>>DAV BG-1>>>Mytek Stereo 192>>>Lynx/Sequoia(24/96)>>dithered/resampled using POW-R # 3 in Sequoia, conversion to MP3 with foobar.) the disc was 10 feet up and 12 feet back from the orchestra. The jecklin disc was my main pair, but additional mics were mixed in as well. What you hear is ONLY the Jecklin sample.

Jecklin Disc and Binaural recording are two different things...Binaural is designed to give realistic playback over HEADPHONES(not loudspeakers) and imaging/localization on loudspeakers is not as good with Binaural sourced stuff. Jecklin Is more universal...sounds great on phones and loudspeakers. Imaging is great, depth of soundstage...

teddy
Click to expand...

That sounds good.

As far as playback over loudspeakers, I've heard a lot of binaural recordings (not using the jecklin disk) that still sounded 3-dimentional. Not nearly as much as with headphones but they still had that 3-d sound.

For example: "barks/0.6M©1984" on this website:

http://www.noogenesis.com/binaural/dogs.aiff.html

qbert1 - that's a good idea, I'm waiting for payday too, just trying to get a solid idea of how to do it so when i get paid I can get started.

I'm also considering those small headphone mics that go in your ears and record to a portable recorder. Only problem is that most portable recorders I've found are expensive, and this is really supposed to be a budget project I'm doing.
 
I have a few binaural recordings - Lou Reed mostly, & really enjoy the sound. One disc - Take No Prisoners is live so my brain can get around that. Another - The Bells is a studio album. How is multitrack studio recording turened into binaural? Is it played back to a dummy head recorder or something else?
Sony ECM 19b's make good binaural recording mics. & the capsules are easy to manipulate into a hat etc.
The MSH-1A is a great little mic & cheap as but needs 48v phantom power which makes moving location recording a bit of a hassle.
 
That's true, RayC about the mobility issue with the MSH-1s, although some portable recorders have phantom power but the battery life is probably crap.

I was thinking of making 2 binaural recording sets...one for use in my room, and a small headphone set used for field recording, it's just the portable recorder that's holding me back.

Do you (or anyone else) know of a cheap setup for a portable, binaural recording setup? Particularly one with headphone mics that can be worn in the ears?
 
rayc said:
. How is multitrack studio recording turened into binaural? Is it played back to a dummy head recorder or something else?
Click to expand...

there are a number of ways..studio stuff is probably recorded through outboard gear using a binaural circuit or emulation..
 
rayc said:
How is multitrack studio recording turened into binaural? Is it played back to a dummy head recorder or something else?
Click to expand...

Well, you could try tracking all your tracks with a fix set of stereo mikes at the same gain setting, say a jecklin disc, and play your instruments in various positions around the mikes. If you then play them all back together, each in stereo at the same gain setting, there should be a coherent stereo image to all the tracks! Give it a try!

Otto
 
For a quick and dirty Jecklin, you can take a clip board and glue foam on either side of it. The original spec was a 300mm disk with the mics spaced 165mm apart. If you are handy with a jig saw, you could cut a piece of acrylic/plexi-glass or other thin and rigid board to make a disk. Honestly, I think the binaural head is more of a gimmick in music production. The Jecklin gives you great stereo separation with many of the benefits of binarual minus the need for head phones. Binaural is certainly really danged cool when done right, but it isn't practical for something that will be played on cheap car stereos etc.

ofajen said:
Well, you could try tracking all your tracks with a fix set of stereo mikes at the same gain setting, say a jecklin disc, and play your instruments in various positions around the mikes. If you then play them all back together, each in stereo at the same gain setting, there should be a coherent stereo image to all the tracks! Give it a try!

Otto
Click to expand...

Gotta be careful with that as if you are in a bad room... the sound of that room times several tracks will build up and sound like poo.
 
bubbagump said:
Gotta be careful with that as if you are in a bad room... the sound of that room times several tracks will build up and sound like poo.
Click to expand...

Of course! I'm used to tracking in a really quiet (blood-rushing-in-your-ears-can-my-midi-keyboard-power-supply-hum-be-that-loud?-i'd-better-turn-it-off-while-i'm-miking-this quiet) room that doesn't have a lot of character, either good or bad. The room is small (about 2000 cu ft) but well treated and has some diffuse reflections, adequate taming of bass modes and no big flat hard surfaces. Generally, I use ASC tube traps around the mike when I record. I've started to use this technique more, now that I'm tracking on a digital rig instead of the big tape machines with at most 8 tracks. In this case, I use a pair of omni mikes and arrayed behind them on the non-instrument side are 4 tube traps to provide more diffuse, quick reflection and kill off more room tone. Some things that I can do would not work in a crappy room with a lot of ambient noise.

Otto
 
Ok, I decided I'm probably going to get these for the field recording setup:

http://www.core-sound.com/lcmics/1.php ($75)

Now all I need is a portable digital recorder to hook them into, preferably a cheap one, still looking for one of those.

I'm still going to be making one for recording in my room, either with a dummy head or jecklin disk with ears, using the MSH mics. Still need to come up with a solid design plan for this.
 
I'm telling ya, on your budget.... go with a pair or MSH1As and make a jecklin out of an old clip board and foam. Heck, guys have gotten good results just gluing mouse pads to clips boards. Just make sure you get the mic spacing right. Cheap, effective and it will sound great.
 
bubbagump said:
I'm telling ya, on your budget.... go with a pair or MSH1As and make a jecklin out of an old clip board and foam. Heck, guys have gotten good results just gluing mouse pads to clips boards. Just make sure you get the mic spacing right. Cheap, effective and it will sound great.
Click to expand...

That's probably what I'll do for the stationary setup, but for field recording I'm going to use a headphone set.

Just shopping for a cheap portable/digital recorder. The headphones use 1 1/8" stereo plug, so it will need an 1/8" jack, and also biased power (which I heard most, if not all, modern digital recorders have).

It also needs a digital out, or something, so I can transfer it to my PC. Doesn't matter if it's USB, Line Out/Digital Out, whatever.

Anyone have any suggestions?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top