devilsgirth
New member
Is there a huge difference between them? Which one will have the least amount of latency in recording?
USB 2/3 vs Firewire 400/800?
- Thread starter devilsgirth
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somegeezer
4 Gazillion Rhodium User
USB 3.0 doesn't have any interfaces yet that I know of. Firewire is the best is very large amounts of inputs and outputs. But USB 2.0 can handle up to 16. Take that for what it's worth. Everything else, you're not particularly going to see much if any difference. Firewire is slowly being phased out though. So any new computer systems you buy will most likely begin to come without any firewire ports. USB 3.0 ports are backwards compatible with USB 2.0 devices though. Go for whichever you feel gives you best quality for the least money, and the amount of inputs and outputs you feel you'll need to use.
Michael Mason
New member
I don't know if Firewire is really being "phased out" so to speak. Thunderbolt is going to be huge for audio/video, but not everyone is going to use or will be able to afford thunderbolt.
The new Macs do not have USB 3.0. Thunderbolt, USB 2.0 and Firewire.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
In practical terms, Firewire is absolutely being phased out. Try and find a laptop that includes it or a slot to plug an adaptor into.
It's a pain to be looking for a new laptop right now. I have an investment in a using ADAT via Firewire that I'm totally happy with--but finding an upgraded computer that can work with it is nigh on impossible. Even if I manage to find one, there's a good chance I'll have to compromise on other things I want just to get the Firewire.
Yeah, USB3 and Thunderbolt are the next big things but they're not there yet in terms of interfaces to work that way. No, I'm not prepared to consider Apple. I have too much investment in other software that would require messing about with dual boots or whatnot.
So, for the OP, unless you need massive amounts of throughput (i.e. more than 16 or so simultaneous inputs and outputs) stick with USB2. Since your concern seems to be latency, frankly the type of interface has a negligeable effect on that. It's things happening inside your computer that make a much bigger difference.
It's a pain to be looking for a new laptop right now. I have an investment in a using ADAT via Firewire that I'm totally happy with--but finding an upgraded computer that can work with it is nigh on impossible. Even if I manage to find one, there's a good chance I'll have to compromise on other things I want just to get the Firewire.
Yeah, USB3 and Thunderbolt are the next big things but they're not there yet in terms of interfaces to work that way. No, I'm not prepared to consider Apple. I have too much investment in other software that would require messing about with dual boots or whatnot.
So, for the OP, unless you need massive amounts of throughput (i.e. more than 16 or so simultaneous inputs and outputs) stick with USB2. Since your concern seems to be latency, frankly the type of interface has a negligeable effect on that. It's things happening inside your computer that make a much bigger difference.
usb/firewire has nothing to do with latency. latency is the interaction of soundcard hardware and it's driver software.
usb and firewire are just data pipes into and out of your computer.
usb1 does 2 channels in and out.
usb2 does up to 16
usb3 was estimated to top off around 80 but none have been produced (and Thunderbolt may kill it)
firewire400 does around 100
firewire800 does over 200
firewire1600 and 3200 specs were approved but no one ever needed them; no interfaces were produced.
Thunderbolt is 12x faster than firewire800 (and can run firewire devices with a simple adapter cable)
usb and firewire are just data pipes into and out of your computer.
usb1 does 2 channels in and out.
usb2 does up to 16
usb3 was estimated to top off around 80 but none have been produced (and Thunderbolt may kill it)
firewire400 does around 100
firewire800 does over 200
firewire1600 and 3200 specs were approved but no one ever needed them; no interfaces were produced.
Thunderbolt is 12x faster than firewire800 (and can run firewire devices with a simple adapter cable)
somegeezer
4 Gazillion Rhodium User
Actually Macs do have USB 3.0 now. and their desktops are the only ones that still use firewire on all models, with at least 1 port. All their low end laptops have removed it fully. The same seems to be true is most regular laptops. No more firewire. and i believe my desktop motherboard is one of the last few to be produced with firewire. Only a single port, whereas 2 USB 3.0 ports and 6 USB 2.0 ports. Soon, you'll need to buy a PCI-E card for your firewire, or as Tim says, get an adapter for your thunderbolt port, if you happen to have one of those instead. Which at least half the new Macs already have, and by the next iteration, I imagine all will. It could still be a while, if ever that the regular PC will come with Thunderbolt.
So right now, USB 2.0 is best option, Firewire if you need more than 16 channels.
Steenamaroo
...
The current imac has USB 2, thunderbolt and firewire.
The current mac book pro has USB 2, thunderbolt and firewire.
The current mac mini has USB 3 and thunderbolt.
The current mac pro has usb 2 and firewire.
Apple also sell thunderbolt to firewire adapters, as the new thunderbolt technology is capable of carrying the firewire protocol.
Admittedly the new Mac Pro is an abortion, but apparently they are releasing a new new one in 2013.
Michael Mason
New member
AFAIK the reason Firewire is not offered on Laptops is because of the power consumption. People want battery life on laptops. Firewire uses 5-10x (theoretically 30x) more power than USB.
MrWrenchey
New member
It's actually not going to be as big a deal as Apple/Intel will have you believe.
If you look at the technical specs, 10Gbps is fast... But what's the fastest your hard drive can transfer at?
Most hard drives consumers use are only 3Gbps SATA, and the higher end ones are still only 6Gbps SATA drives. USB 3.0 is basically exactly that. So the only companies making Thunderbolt interfaces will primarily be for the people who aren't tech savvy enough to understand the difference between USB 3.0, Thunderbolt, and SATA transfer speeds.
Firewire's being phased out as far as COMPUTERS go, but I think it's kinda the best you can get for recording right now (so long as it's firewire 800, otherwise USB 2.0 is faster by 80Mbps).
To put all of the above simply...
Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 aren't out for interfaces, but USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt will give appx. the same latency. As of now, USB 2.0 is better than Firewire 400, but not Firewire 800.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
...and it's only better if you NEED the extra throughput--and if you can find a USB3 interface.
As for the future, history is littered with the corpses of technology which is better but never caught on. Anyone old enough to remember Betamax? I like the sound of Thunderbolt but, then, the backwards compatibility that lets you plug older USB devices into a USB3 port is a powerful selling point. Right now we're in the inevitable Catch 22: computer manufacturers (Apple aside) are waiting for their to be a hardware demand for Thunderbolt ports--and the makers of outboard gear (like the audio interfaces we need) are waiting for enough computers to offer Thunderbolt to make it worth their while designing and building gear to use that interface.
It'd all be fun to watch--except I need to upgrade my laptop in the next few months, not a few years from now.
MrWrenchey
New member
For some reason, this reminded me that it's possible that someone's going to make a SATA with a higher speed, or a different cabling system altogether that will actually make Thunderbolt make sense.
But of course, that's probably going to be costly, and if you're willing to drop that much money just to get a hard drive with the high speed system, a motherboard that's compatible, AND a motherboard/PCIe card that can utilize Thunderbolt, well, you're rich enough to afford more important things. xD
Nothing I can disagree with here. Firewire is disappearing. Any new PC motherboard you buy will have USB 3 (and usually ESATA, but that's another story). But no USB 3 interfaces yet, I'm sure there are a number in development. I don't see Thunderbolt going anywhere, it costs too much and USB is too well established now as the standard.
Michael Mason
New member
If you get into the professional line of laptops (under the business systems section) with HP or Dell, you get Firewire ports. Consumer grade PCs and laptops do not, mostly because they are used differently than professional grade computers. When you buy a consumer grade computer, you are buying a system made to browse the web, send emails, store pictures, listen to music, etc. When you buy a professional grade computer, you are using it to create movies, create music, edit photos on a large scale, etc... Two VERY different buyer bases.
For a home recording setup, especially getting that indie sound: you, a guitar, maybe a bass and a simple drum setup, sure, it's going to be fine... but throw a piano or keyboard in there, backup vocals, good luck recording a live set. Sorry, but USB doesn't do it.
USB is great for consumer grade computers. But when you start transferring 100gb-1tb of data regularly, you're going to want that extra speed that Firewire offers. It is definitely a noticeable difference.
One of my peers and I transferred the same exact files to our HDDs from the same Mac Pro for a final project. It was about 8 gigs or so. He had an external USB drive with a power adapter (so speed wasn't hampered by the computer using extra power for the HD), I had an external Firewire HD. His finished in almost twice the amount of time as it took mine. Mine took a few minutes.
7-8 minutes may not seem like too big a deal, but when you're dealing with multiple projects, each with 48 or more tracks, video files, and whatever else you need to give to a teacher, client, engineer, mastering firm, whatever, it really does make a difference. What might take an hour with USB could very well only take 30 minutes with Firewire.
In addition, at least on my Firepod, Firwire allows me to chain interfaces, also, I can work on my projects directly off of my Firewire drive. You CANNOT do that with USB.
Again, not trying to start a war here... USB and Firewire both have their places in the technology world. I prefer Firewire to USB. I don't think it's being phased out as I use a Mac exclusively for my Audio and Video creation needs. Windows I use as a more general system: gaming, web browsing, document compatibility, etc.
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Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
As do I, hence my investment in Firewire technology that I'm loathe to replace. However, for reasons too boring to go into, I really need to replace my sound laptop (and I do need the portability because much of my work involves mixing in several theatres). Even at the top/business end, I'm having a dickens of a time finding a laptop that includes FW (or a card slot to add it) that doesn't have something else to rule it out.
My search goes on!
Michael Mason
New member
That's part of the reason I think thunderbolt is going to be huge. There are docks which you can plug in USB, FireWire, etc all powered by a single thunderbolt port. Also, the single adapters. I would google "thunderbolt dock" or check out macrumors.com or tuaw.com if you were serious about using your FireWire gear with a Mac laptop.
If you wanted a PC, a quick search on HPs website in the small business section resulted in finding a laptop with FireWire. I believe it was the ProBook series. That was the first one I checked.
For all the non techies out there, you're looking for a 1394 port.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
Ah, thanks for that.
At least from HP Australia, the Probooks don't have Firewire....but the Elitebooks do so I'm looking into them in detail for the rest of the spec I need.
(Now I just need to forget my anti-HP prejudice based on my son's laptop catching fire in 2004 and the bad drivers on my HP printer! I'm sure lightning...er, fire...can't strike twice--can it?)
There's light on the horizon!
At least from HP Australia, the Probooks don't have Firewire....but the Elitebooks do so I'm looking into them in detail for the rest of the spec I need.
(Now I just need to forget my anti-HP prejudice based on my son's laptop catching fire in 2004 and the bad drivers on my HP printer! I'm sure lightning...er, fire...can't strike twice--can it?)
There's light on the horizon!
Michael Mason
New member
Let us know how it goes!