US-122 incompatible with AMD VIA chipset

S

Secret Clubhous

New member
Some of you may remember responding to my thread "Device driver crashes in XP" roughly a month ago. Thanks to those who offered solutions/suggestions. Well, I finally got thru to Tascam & nailed down the problem. They told me "this device is incompatible with AMD VIA chipsets. We've always recommended not using that chipset," as if it were common knowledge. (Naturally, that is the chipset I have.)

Well, I don't know if anyone here has heard about that? A bunch of experienced folks here offered suggestions but nobody was aware/informed of the conflict. The local pro audio store I bought it from certainly didn't mention it. The salesman just said, "this is what you need. It will work with anything." Though I'd found it cheaper online, I bought locally because I wanted to support local businesses. Plus the store is highly regarded for their knowledge & service, but even they knew nothing about this issue.

Neither does this info appear anywhere in Tascam's promo, spec sheets, or in the mini-manual for the US-122. The mini-manual says it has been tested & is compatible with about 4 or so Intel chipsets, but says nothing about not using AMD VIA, or anything else, just that incompatibility would be "a rare case" with any system.

Tascam advised to do the tweaks at musicxp.com, which I did...& lo & behold, the Blue Screen of Death after 15 min. editing in Cakewalk HS04.
They also said to roll back to the old driver if the tweaks didn't help, so I did. Haven't fully tested that yet, but I have serious doubts it will make much difference. Tascam's last piece of advice was "get a new computer."

Right....this IS a new computer! :mad:

So it looks like I'm probably SOL & now have to buy a new soundcard & mixer. Needless to say, I'm pretty pissed about not being informed of the incompatibility before I bought the device. Which, BTW, is a great little box for the price & seemed perfect for my minimal setup using both MIDI & audio.
I'd recommend it for anyone w/similar needs, as long as it is compatible w/your system.

anyway, a few questions for those with ideas on the subject:

1. So what IS a compatible PCI-based soundcard/breakout box that does MIDI & audio & is compatible w/AMD VIA? I don't need lots of inputs, just something reliable that I don't have to mess with a lot to get it working.

2. Do I have any recourse worth pursuing in terms of getting a refund after 8 mos. tearing my hair out, crashing at least 4x a day?

3. Does anyone know of a website or thread that lists specific incompatibilities between software, hardware, etc? Or is this something the end user just has to find out the hard way? Maybe we could start a sticky thread on this subject?
 
you put up with that for 8 months?? wow i would've broken it by then! Somehing about "incompatability" and "VIA chipset" realy rings a bell for me but not with the tascam. Actually that is why i went with the nforce chipset in my new AMD computer, lucky for me as i use the tascam yet. I havn't had a chance to try it yet but i am hoping that it will work.

Maybe you could try to take it back and just ask for a credit towards something else. If you do have to buy a new soundcard, maybe it would be sheaper to buy a new motherboard with an nforce chipset. I think mine was about 200 bucks canadian for an Asus k8N deluxe.
 
Sounds like a copout from Tascam.

The VIAs used to be horrible for audio, but I thought they'd put all that behind them. Did you install the 4-in-1 drivers? I'm sure people are running the US122 with VIA.

But if you want a nice 2-input pci card, check out the M-Audio audiophile. They're down to under $90 now
 
Via call the drivers Hyperion now, or are trying to.
4in1 refers to it being a set of seperate drivers in one package.

Surely it's a USB issue? Via's most recent USB chips are called "Rev 5 or later" in device manager, and most audio companies are happy to use them.
Do you have any exclamation marks by the USB devices in Windows Device Manager?

I wonder if you used the term AMD/Via with the support people they thought you meant some old hybrid boards that had part AMD part Via chips. The current Via boards are all Via, only the CPU is AMD.
 
i'm a puter engr and i'm having trouble believing that as well .
that its vias fault. yes - via had probs in the past from what i understand,
BUT - you might want to check on your pc if your usb1.
if you are that could be the reason.
i still say , and as ive posted many times i dont like usb technology for audio.
i dont think its mature enough yet as a protocol.
but hey - whad i know - i;m just a dumb ape computer engr thats only
installed millions of dollars of tech for govts and big businesses.
 
Well, here's some of my system specs, though I'm not tech-savvy enough to know what the chipset stuff means):

USB 2.0 on the pc (the US122 is USB 1.0)
MSI mainboard
VIA KM266 chipset ("KM2M combo MS-6738 v1.0 G52-M6738X1-L03"
updated driver (downloaded from VIAareana): 5.1.2600.1152
Windows XP Home
No SP2!
512k RAM
20k+khz
120 GB hard drive
one old MIDI keyboard
1 or 2 mics

no exclamation points in Device Drivers (already checked this--Cakewalk thought it was an IRQ conflict & wanted me to reinstall the OS in Standard mode!?!)

Do I have one of the old horrible AMD's?

I realize lotsa folks don't trust USB for audio, but there seem to be some very reasonably-priced interfaces w/lots of features. If I just went w/a PCI interface, would that eliminate the problems?

(Oh, & BTW, thanks for responding, manning1--this seems an area for your expertise (though you don't need to repeat your credentials in every post!). I'd certainly appreciate your input, problem-solving skills, not to mention budget-consciousness.)

What say y'all?
 
heres what i would do to get you recording quickly.

plug a mic into a mic preamp(eg: yamaha mg mixer a lot of folks like) feeding something like an audiophile 2496 pci sound card.
or if you want lots of inputs later on consider a delta PCI sound card.
lots of folks are using audiophile and delta sound cards.
but i would get the sound card based on you can return it if you have problems. also i would ask maudio before you get the sound card
if there are any problems potentially
with your via chipset and msi mainboard.
can you return the 122 ?? and get your money back ?
 
I've had the US122 running solidly on KT133a, KT333, KM400, KT400, and KT600 chipset-equipt computers.

Sounds like someone is giving you bad info. The problem with many of the companies, such as M Audio and Tascam, is that calling them on two separate days gets you two different answers.
 
polaris. maybe you know usb internals better than i.
but if the 122 is usb 1 thats the old usb protocol right ?
but he is running on usb2. which i assume will default to usb1 right ?
so - slower - right ?
question polaris - on your pc's you ran 122 on fine did you have any other usb devices connected at the same time ?
i'm beginning to wonder if it isnt a luck of the draw thing.
some systems the 122 works fine on and others it doesnt ?
 
minofifa said:
Somehing about "incompatability" and "VIA chipset" realy rings a bell for me but not with the tascam.
Click to expand...

Aardvark recommends against using VIA chipsets as well; it has something to do with the way they handle PCI bus resources.

VIA is just one of many companies who build a chipset to interface the AMD chip with the rest of the computer. Some companies do it better than others. If you use Google to look at reviews of the various chipsets you'll see wide variations in things like 1) front side/back side bus speed, 2) the amount of control over how the PCI bus allocates resources, and 3) bus speed to and from memory. The true geeks here can give more info but it's enough to know that there are a thousand ways for a chip set manufacturer to cut corners.

I'm not saying the VIA chipset is the problem. I built a AMD 64 machine for my Aardvard Q10 system and used an ASUS board that wasn't recommended by Aardvark - no problems so far.

In any event, after futzing with it for 8 months I think I'd just ditch the US-122 and get another USB interface with similar performance specs - there are plenty of them out there.
 
well, sounds like everybody has a bit of a different take on the problem. Of course the manufacturers are gonna say it's somebody/something else's fault! Not being a qualified geek myself, this board is my only resource & even you guys have all different experiences & opinions.

manning1, I don't have a separate mixer or preamp cuz the US122 was supposed to cover all that & since it was all I needed as a songwriter, it was less gear to buy. Being out of work for a while, I don't exactly have much cash flow these days.

Yeah, I see lotsa people here run the 2496 & like it. But I read a buncha reviews that said it was noisy & unstable & generally bad news. Opinions?

I need both audio & MIDI, a preamp & would prefer a breakout box to a software style mixer. (When I grow up ;) I hope to get away from having to mouse everything.)

So here's what I'm considering now as an all-in-one solution in my price range:

1. Echo MIA (PCI)
2. Edirol UA-25 (USB & has 2 pre's)
3. the soon-to-be released Behri BCA2000 (USB & also w/2pre's)
4. M-Audio Omni (also USB w/pre, lotsa I/O's & 2 headphone jacks, & they have a good reputation for updating drivers).

What do you know about any of the above?

So many people have doubts about using USB for audio, but there's so many out there w/lotsa bang-for-the-buck (as long as they work!). plus, at some point I want a portable unit for traveling.

I understand it would be more of an ordeal than it's worth to replace the
mobo chipset...?

If this kinda problem persists for me, I may just say the heck with it & get a used standalone (AW16G, VF80, D1200 or the like). But that's a whole 'nother thread...
 
i'm gonna say it one final time, and i know some people have usb working;
but for YOU i would stay away from usb.
do with this advice what you will.
 
Althought I can't comment on other m-audio products, my Audiophile 24/96 did not play well with my VIA KT-400 chipset. I tried several workarounds, fixes, etc., and could simply not get reliable performance out of it. I can't in good conscience advise against ALL m-audio products for use with VIA chipsets, but I wouldn't plan on a smooth ride.

The Echo MIA card is a nice option. Worked well with my VIA chipset, very well. I did end up upgrading to an Echo Gina 24, and am getting rock solid performance.

Not everyone is experiencing trouble with USB 2.0 audio interfaces, but some certainly are. You might want to move into other options just to alleviate nay future headaches.
 
The Via KM mobos have on-board video which are generally not good for DAW use as they access system ram rather a lot.

With any VIA chipset, there are a couple of possible BIOS tweaks that you may be unaware of.
PCI delay transaction timer - disable it.
PCI latency timer - change default 32 to 64.
Not all makes of mobo/bios allow access to these settings though.

There is also the option of holding off a greedy graphics chip by using a utility that can reduce its PCI latency. By default, many of these are as high as 255, while the poor soundcard (or USB controller) is making do with 32. Even AGP cards are controlled by the PCI bus in this respect. The Latency being the number of pci clocks the device has the machines attention for following an IRQ.

My own machine has an Audiophile in a Via KT400. Performance was good in Sonar (using WDM/KS) and ASIO playback with VST hosts, but there were always odd clicks in playback using media players or CEP/Audition.
The final cure was to replace an ATi Radeon AGP card with a Matrox G550. The Matrox has a PCI latency of only 64, a quarter of the Radeons demands.

However, Secret Clubhous was getting crashes. That looks more like a driver conflict to me, and can be caused by the presence of buggy driver for voice modem, recording video card (with a WDM audio input) in the system, or a bad install of the USB audio interfaces own driver, which can easily happen. Also, some manufacturers simply don't bother to make a good WDM driver for Cakewalk Products, while with the ASIO driver, users do get good performance. Some WDM drivers show "ghost" channels which are duplicates. These can cause problems if selected, although they can work for some products.
Do you have any duplicate channels for the Tascam showing in HS option/audio drivers tab?
 
Jim,

I just wanted to add that I appreciate your pointers. I'm still in the trial/error process of getting the best out of my system. I have a Radeon vid card and have no need whatsoever for 3D capabilities (which are archaic by now). I take it you're still using your Matrox card? I may have to look into that if it might help out the PCI bus a little + the dual head feature may come in handy someday soon (I'd like to get another monitor hooked up).
 
warble,

you can DL a program that is called dbldawg which allows you to change the latency values for the graphics card.

Mine was on .... guess what .... yeah ... 255 ...

put it down to 96 for a rather smooth ride now

bye alfred
 
Jim--
thanks for the input but most of what you said went way over my head. If you think it's applicable here, can you explain in non-tech language please?As for the only part I could understand, I am using ASIO not WDM. Although at this point I wouldn't mind using WMD's on it! :D
& it definitely is the device driver, at least XP tells me that every time it crashes.
& nope, no duplicate channels in options/audio.
 
I forgot HS2004 lets you use ASIO. ASIO is often a safer bet as there is less opportunity for other software to interfere.

I think it's actually fairly uncommon for the code of the drivers to get corrupted, what is more common is that different versions of the parts of a driver get mixed up. Sometimes only a clean re-install of Windows can cure this.
The driver install setup ought to scan for older or duplicate versions of its code, and delete them before installing the new. Failing that, the makers should provide an "uninstall" utilty for you to run prior to attempting a new install. This is best done with the interface unplugged so that none of the driver could be in-use. Following a re-boot, Windows will set itself up with no knowledge of the device, and you should get a clean install when you plug it in.
A problem with USB is that if you plug the interface into a different USB port than the one you installed it on, Windows can automatically re-install again, possibly leading to mixed up drivers.

I had a poke around - none of the Tacam support page links appear to work.
I found this in a forum.
"I had this same problem with my US-122 interface. I ended up un-installing the drivers and re-installing them. It fixed my problem. Somehow, something got corrupted in the driver file I guess . Also try this.., switch from ASIO to WDM and back to ASIO. "
I also saw something about an "ASIO sync test". Do you have that and tried it?
 
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Alfred,

Thanks. I had heard of that, and downloaded it. I guess if I can get lower latency with a different card, I'd take that approach. I'm ready for dual-head anyway :)
 
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