Unbalanced/Balanced

F

fazil

New member
Hi,
My soundcard's inputs (terratec EWS88) are unbalanced and my mixers outputs (i'm using the inserts, to pick up a seperate signal from every channel) are unbalanced aswell.
Is it recommended to use a patchbay to route my channels? It's very convinient, but I don't know about quality loss a noise. I'm not using outboard gear so I will only be using "mixer out -> soundcard in".
Are the cables too long, and are there too many connectors that could pick up hum ? or isn't that too important on "line level" signals.
I do have 4 (balanced) busses out on my mixer, is there a way to convert the bal. signal to an unbal. signal, so my unbalanced connection will be limited to distance between "the convertor" and my soundcard, instead of the long cable runs...

Ps, I'm not talking about mic signals, I connect those directly to the boards preamps.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to ask, my english isn't very well :)
tnx and greetz
 
-once unbalanced, always unbalanced
-I don't see why you would need a patch bay if you have no outboard stuff
IN His Name
BK
 
You didn't say how long of a cable run we're talking about, but unless it's either very long, or you have an excessively noisy EMI environment, it's probably not worth worrying about the unbalanced interconnect. I also don't see the need for a patch bay, which is one more area for noise to creep in. My suggestion is that you use the best quality unbalanced patch cables or snake between the two that you can find/afford, and keep the routing clean and away from potential noise sources.

Cheers, RD
 
I'm talking 'bout 3 to 4 metres, i use the patchbay for routing my channels from mixer to my soundcard, I do somethimes use external preamps to go directly to my soundcard (i dindn't see them as outboard, my mistake maybe)
I could shorten the distance, if i could get a hand on an extension cable for my soundcards breakoutbox, any ideas where I might find one ? (terratec ews 88mt).
I don't think it's a very noisy environment as i don't hear much noise with this setup right now, i was mostly wondering about losing sound quality somehow. Maybe i shouldn't worry if i don't hear any noise ?

tnx for your replys
-greetz
 
One of the things that always gave me a headache trying to make sense of is:
Lets say RNP bal out --> rear patchbay
On front of patchbay I want to route it to, lets just say an RNC input, which is also hooked to the back of the patchbay.
If the RNC input was balanced also, and I used an unbalanced cable for the front connection between the two, what exactly happens there? Somethings gotta go, but what is it? Or will that even work at all? Or, what if it were two unbalnced connections and I used a balanced cable? Does that create a problem of some sort?
Just curious. The actual electronics side of stuff is what stumps me. Glad I dont really have to deal with it other than just to keep it all ironed out.
 
tubedude said:
One of the things that always gave me a headache trying to make sense of is:
Lets say RNP bal out --> rear patchbay
On front of patchbay I want to route it to, lets just say an RNC input, which is also hooked to the back of the patchbay.
If the RNC input was balanced also, and I used an unbalanced cable for the front connection between the two, what exactly happens there? Somethings gotta go, but what is it? Or will that even work at all? Or, what if it were two unbalnced connections and I used a balanced cable? Does that create a problem of some sort?
Just curious. The actual electronics side of stuff is what stumps me. Glad I dont really have to deal with it other than just to keep it all ironed out.
Click to expand...

right now i'm doing the same exact thing your asking about with a behringer ultra patch pro(unbalanced) and i have no problems no signal degradation, buzzes, hums...i haven't done a direct comparison of bypassing the patchbay vs using the patch bay though but if it has to come to that you know the differences are small if there are any at all..
 
On a balanced signal, you've got a + which is positive relativly to the ground, the - is 90° phase flipped relativly to the +, so your - is negative relativly to the ground.
On an unbalanced signal, there's only a +, positive relativly to the ground. (at least that's what I understand about it)

So this means that if your setup is all balanced signals, except your patch cable for example, your - will be shortcutted to the ground. Result: all those balanced cables/connectors are only used unbalanced as there are only 2 isolated wires/connections

Your balanced signal can only remain balanced if all of your cables in this chain are balanced (3 wires) using an unbalaced cable (2 wires) is like shortkutting the - and the ground, it will still work but there would be no point in investing more expensive cables/connectors. _please correct me if i'm wrong, this what I understand, and what seems logic to me_

I hope this answers your question, and frees your head from headaches, tubedude

greetz (excuses for the bad english once again)
 
fazil said:
On a balanced signal, you've got a + which is positive relativly to the ground, the - is 90° phase flipped relativly to the +, so your - is negative relativly to the ground.
_please correct me if i'm wrong, this what I understand, and what seems logic to me_
Click to expand...

Well, since you asked, I'll correct you, though you're mostly right.
The phase difference between the two signals is 180 degrees, so that when the - signal is phase inverted at the recieving end, and then summed with the + signal, the two signals are in phase and don't cancel. Any noise picked up along the way though will end up 180 degrees out of phase, and the two noise signals will cancel.

Cheers, RD
 
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